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Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

 
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:04 am
sozobe wrote:
Actually DTOM, parados went ahead and provided the proof that Wilson did contribute to the Bush campaign.


naw, i was referring to lash's allegedly voting for and/or donating to bush. she says that she voted for bush. but we have no proof that she did.

since lash has insisted on proof that wilson contributed to and voted for to bush, i think it only fair to want the same type of proof from her of having done the same. :wink:


as far as i'm concerned, wilson had a long and impressive career in the diplomatic corps. he showed a lot of mach-sie in the way he dealt with the embassy issues in iraq and apparently was/is held in high esteem by george h.w. bush, who called him courageous. good enough bonafides for me. and should be for republicans (probably is for most), unless they think that bush 41 was a liar too.

the slime campaign against wilson is absolutely typical of the rove, cheney, bush jr(s.) neo-con crowd.

they have no compunction trashing the records, personal life or good works of others that have actually done something for the usa while they, themselves, have done nothing but make a career of sucking at the golden teet of partisan politics. real americans. my butt. buchaneers marauding the seas of political cronyism and opportunistic aqusition is more like it.

i read the relevant parts of the report. it does not say what the spin doctors say it does. just as what i read of kerry's voting record was distorted by the same bunch.

and everyday now, they continue to change the conversation to keep away from the topic. just now, as i'm typing, one of the usual suspects is on "connected", shrilling about sandy berger. wtf does that have to do with it ? exactly nothing, that's what. but it diverts the course of the conversation from "the leak" (no matter what rove's part ) to the opposition having to defend berger.

here's what i believe;

just as the onset of the whole "family values" razzle dazzle cuased me to stop voting for republican presidents (having been a moderate republican), i think that the bush administration's constant trashing of anyone who doesn't pull out the mat and pray to crawford 5 times a day is going to send a lot more looking for a new party. perhaps not to the dems, unless they get their shite together. but, a viable new party of moderate dems and republicans would probably fly if people wanted it bad enough. and would probably kick the stuffing out of the twin pillars in the ensuing elections.

why ? because despite what both parties want you to believe and what rushsean hannibaugh and randi rhodes insist;

most of us are americans first and party loyalists second. or third . or fourth. or not party loyalists at all.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:06 am
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
but is stationed and working abroad sometime within the last five years.


From what I've read, the "stationed" part is an overstatement -- if she took a single official trip, that could be enough.


I wouldn't be so certain that would be the ruling. There would be a lot of arguing about what the word "served" means in Sec. 426.

Quote:
50 U.S.C. 426(4)(A) ... (ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States;


Does an isolated trip constitute "served" in the context of this law? Might be an issue that's argued if it gets to that level.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:10 am
Ticomaya wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
but is stationed and working abroad sometime within the last five years.


From what I've read, the "stationed" part is an overstatement -- if she took a single official trip, that could be enough.


I wouldn't be so certain that would be the ruling. There would be a lot of arguing about what the word "served" means in Sec. 426.

Quote:
50 U.S.C. 426(4)(A) ... (ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States;


Does an isolated trip constitute "served" in the context of this law? Might be an issue that's argued if it gets to that level.


does a single tour of duty in iraq with the 3rd id constitute "served" ?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:14 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
but is stationed and working abroad sometime within the last five years.


From what I've read, the "stationed" part is an overstatement -- if she took a single official trip, that could be enough.


I wouldn't be so certain that would be the ruling. There would be a lot of arguing about what the word "served" means in Sec. 426.

Quote:
50 U.S.C. 426(4)(A) ... (ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States;


Does an isolated trip constitute "served" in the context of this law? Might be an issue that's argued if it gets to that level.


does a single tour of duty in iraq with the 3rd id constitute "served" ?


If I said "yes," would you hold me to it?

My point is there may be more to the analysis than just the fact that a trip occurred, and it would probably be inaccurate to assume that the fact that a trip occurred equates to "served." Particularly if the visit was of short duration. Like I said, if it gets to that level, there will be briefs filed on both sides of the issue.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:14 am
I have found Krugman to be an acceptable source.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:14 am
sozobe wrote:
"Approve", BrandX? According to Novak, they made a "very weak request" that he not name Plame publicly. So even Novak doesn't go so far as "approve." Meanwhile, the CIA itself says it has " disputed Novak's claim and indicated that he was told revealing the information could cost agents their lives."

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1449950#1449950


This puts a different light on Novak's claim, I was referring to Sanford's statements on CNN.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:15 am
pngirouard wrote:
But it gets more interesting. Rove and Novak are buffoons of the same leak circus for years. Rove even got fired once by Bush for it

Psst ...

timberlandko wrote:
Cyc wrote:
... it's hard to forget that Rove was FIRED by Bush sr.'s campaing in '92, and guess what for? That's right, for leaking information to BOB NOVAK. So this isn't what you would call an isolated incident.

You musta missed - or forgot - This. Nothing in the "Rove was fired" meme to forget; there is no "There" there - something in itself not an isolated incident.

Gotta admit, Timber did good digging there ...
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:20 am
Tico, "could be enough" is hardly certainty.

(Thanks for the acknowledgement, BrandX.)
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:21 am
sozobe wrote:
Tico, "could be enough" is hardly certainty.


Good point, soz. Didn't intend to mischaracterize your statement.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:22 am
nimh wrote:
pngirouard wrote:
But it gets more interesting. Rove and Novak are buffoons of the same leak circus for years. Rove even got fired once by Bush for it

Psst ...

timberlandko wrote:
Cyc wrote:
... it's hard to forget that Rove was FIRED by Bush sr.'s campaing in '92, and guess what for? That's right, for leaking information to BOB NOVAK. So this isn't what you would call an isolated incident.

You musta missed - or forgot - This. Nothing in the "Rove was fired" meme to forget; there is no "There" there - something in itself not an isolated incident.

Gotta admit, Timber did good digging there ...


yep. he usually does and i wish he'd knock it off. or else come to work for our side. if ya can't beat 'em, hire 'em i always say... :wink:
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:24 am
In Novak's very own website he conceds that Rove did get fired but remained on as a operative. Which is also linked in a post (mine) below Timberlandko's.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:34 am
revel, can you point that out? I just looked for it and couldn't turn it up. (Either Novak's website or your post where you refer to it.)
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:36 am
What don't you know about the Plame affair?

0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:50 am
None of us know nothin'. The speculation is interesting though and I've learned a lot.

Hopefully this stuff will be answered soonish.

<tappity...>

In terms of this column, though, the paragraph about Wilson's actions are weird. She offered up his name, but didn't make any decisions. Just offered up his name. Is that a "substantive role"? Not really. Certainly not enough that it's all weird and suspicious and stuff if he says she didn't.

The "I don't know" there to me is not why he said it -- not such a weird thing to say -- but "Why is such a big deal made out of Valerie Plame reasonably offering up the name of her husband, who was indeed qualified, and then entirely different people deciding to send him?"

And the next paragraph -- Rove has pretty much admitted to the intention being smearing. Ugh, where was that? Have to find it before I swear to it. The "I don't know" there for me is "Why is to so hard to believe that Rove, protege of Lee Atwater, smear artist extraordinaire, would seek to discredit a source of information damaging to the White House's case for war?"

Oh and the Times stuff is just weird. Ashcroft shouldn't have been the one in charge of this. Check. The investigation is taking a long time and the information is coming out of it painfully slowly. Check. The "I don't know" there is "what possible importance is there in those two snippets of information?"

I didn't know about the waiver... that's weird, if true. Cooper's story was some 11th-hour contact.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:54 am
This case is taking much longer than Watergate.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:57 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
This case is taking much longer than Watergate.


the neos have had 30 years to hone their technics.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:57 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
This case is taking much longer than Watergate.


the neos have had 30 years to hone their techniques.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:00 pm
sozobe wrote:
In terms of this column, though, the paragraph about Wilson's actions are weird. She offered up his name, but didn't make any decisions. Just offered up his name. Is that a "substantive role"? Not really. Certainly not enough that it's all weird and suspicious and stuff if he says she didn't.

The "I don't know" there to me is not why he said it -- not such a weird thing to say -- but "Why is such a big deal made out of Valerie Plame reasonably offering up the name of her husband, who was indeed qualified, and then entirely different people deciding to send him?"


Because if she hadn't suggested her husband for the trip, he wouldn't have gone. That's a pretty substantive role, IMO.

Quote:
And the next paragraph -- Rove has pretty much admitted to the intention being smearing. Ugh, where was that? Have to find it before I swear to it. The "I don't know" there for me is "Why is to so hard to believe that Rove, protege of Lee Atwater, smear artist extraordinaire, would seek to discredit a source of information damaging to the White House's case for war?"


When you find it let me know.

Quote:
Oh and the Times stuff is just weird. Ashcroft shouldn't have been the one in charge of this. Check. The investigation is taking a long time and the information is coming out of it painfully slowly. Check. The "I don't know" there is "what possible importance is there in those two snippets of information?"


I don't either.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:08 pm
Do you know that if she hadn't suggested her husband, he wouldn't have gone? Again, it wasn't something like some auto mechanic being tapped because of his connections -- Wilson was qualified.

That's not going into the fact that the quote was, "The assertion that Valerie had played any substantive role in the decision to ask me to go..." She suggested him, but she didn't make the decision.

I'll try to find the Rove thing, I've done this a few times and this thread is moving so fast it's tough! Especially if there isn't a handy hook. Will see what I can do.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 12:12 pm
sozobe wrote:
Do you know that if she hadn't suggested her husband, he wouldn't have gone? Again, it wasn't something like some auto mechanic being tapped because of his connections -- Wilson was qualified.


I think it's unlikely. If he was in the realm of consideration, why did Ms. Plame have to proffer his name?

Quote:
That's not going into the fact that the quote was, "The assertion that Valerie had played any substantive role in the decision to ask me to go..." She suggested him, but she didn't make the decision.


If she suggested his name, and but for her suggesting his name he wouldn't have gone, that qualifies as a "substantive role" in my view.
0 Replies
 
 

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