Rove was the source of the Plame leak... so it appears

Cycloptichorn wrote:

None of this addresses the fact that noone on the right seems to care in the slightest that laws are broken, or that national security is compromised, by the actions of the ADMINISTRATION; we know for a fact that more people than Rove are involved in this.

Once again, you cannot honestly address the issue of the moral failings of those you hold up as your leaders. Instead you have changed the subject to an attack on Liberals. How typical.

Cycloptichorn

Or they obfuscate.

or

(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency,

or

(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of Investigation;

or

(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose past or present intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information and who is a present or former agent of, or a present or former informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency.

Shrug. I don't know whether she was 'a covert agent' according to the statutes of THAT law. This does not preclude other laws from stating that she was a covert agent for the purpose of enacting those laws.

As I've said before, we don't know where this is going to go yet.

But let's look at what the statute says exactly by breaking it down into small pieces.

Quote:

...

(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency,

There may be a point here.

We don't know how this will be interpreted, because Plame DID operate outside of the US at one time. But who can say how it will be interpreted?

Quote:

or

So we go on

Quote:

(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of Investigation;

Hmm, well, she didn't work for the FBI as far as we know, so this doesn't seem to hold up either. Luckily, there is one further

Quote:

or

Quote:

(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose past or present intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information and who is a present or former agent of, or a present or former informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency.

Well, I'm not sure Plame is a foriegn citizen. But is she considered to be an American citizen? There may be some leverage here.

If Valerie Plame was not actually an undercover CIA employee, why did Gonzales say she was?

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Plame_Leak_timeline

• Text of an e-mail to White House staff Tuesday from counsel Alberto R. Gonzales about the Justice Department's investigation about the leak of a CIA officer's identity:

"We were informed last evening by the Department of Justice that it has opened an investigation into possible unauthorized disclosures concerning the identity of an undercover CIA employee. ...you must preserve all materials that might in any way be related to the department's investigation."

I heard Victoria Toensing on Fox News this a.m. questioning Plame's status as a covert agent. Plame reportedly returned to Washington from her last overseas assignment in 1997. Is Plame a "covert agent"? I'm certainly not foolish enough to claim that I know one way or another based on the facts as I know them to be. I'll leave that to the libbies on this thread.

revel wrote:

If Valerie Plame was not actually an undercover CIA employee, why did Gonzales say she was?

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Plame_Leak_timeline

• Text of an e-mail to White House staff Tuesday from counsel Alberto R. Gonzales about the Justice Department's investigation about the leak of a CIA officer's identity:

"We were informed last evening by the Department of Justice that it has opened an investigation into possible unauthorized disclosures concerning the identity of an undercover CIA employee. ...you must preserve all materials that might in any way be related to the department's investigation."

If you want to debate whether Plame is an "undercover CIA employee," go right ahead.

We've been discussing whether she is a "covert agent."

Ticomaya wrote:

revel wrote:

If Valerie Plame was not actually an undercover CIA employee, why did Gonzales say she was?

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Plame_Leak_timeline

• Text of an e-mail to White House staff Tuesday from counsel Alberto R. Gonzales about the Justice Department's investigation about the leak of a CIA officer's identity:

"We were informed last evening by the Department of Justice that it has opened an investigation into possible unauthorized disclosures concerning the identity of an undercover CIA employee. ...you must preserve all materials that might in any way be related to the department's investigation."

If you want to debate whether Plame is an "undercover CIA employee," go right ahead.

We've been discussing whether she is a "covert agent."

An undercover CIA employee isn't covered by the law? More obfuscation and parsing of words Tico..

Tap dance some more, they jury is getting tired of this one.

(4) The term ''covert agent'' means -
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an
intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed
Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency -
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member
is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within
the last five years served outside the United States;or
(B) a United States citizen whose intelligence relationship
to the United States is classified information, and -
(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an
agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance
to, an intelligence agency, or
(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an
agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or
foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation; or
(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose
past or present intelligence relationship to the United States
is classified information and who is a present or former agent
of, or a present or former informant or source of operational
assistance to, an intelligence agency.

(5) The term ''intelligence agency'' means the Central
Intelligence Agency, a foreign intelligence component of the
Department of Defense, or the foreign counterintelligence or
foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation.

Ticomaya wrote:

I heard Victoria Toensing on Fox News this a.m. questioning Plame's status as a covert agent. Plame reportedly returned to Washington from her last overseas assignment in 1997. Is Plame a "covert agent"? I'm certainly not foolish enough to claim that I know one way or another based on the facts as I know them to be. I'll leave that to the libbies on this thread.

Isn't it lovely that GOP spin miesters are questioning the final decision of the CIA which actually employed and gave Plame her assignments...

Geez Tico.. why should we take the word of Toensing over the CIA? This is downright silly on your part.

who is serving outside the United States or has within
the last five years served outside the United States

Sorry Tico..

Ignoring the relevent parts of the law and bringing up non relevent parts doesn't change the fact that revealing the identity of Plame was a crime.

Quote:

(4) The term ''covert agent'' means -
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an
intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed
Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency -
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member
is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within
the last five years served outside the United States;or
(B) a United States citizen whose intelligence relationship
to the United States is classified information, and -
(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an
agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance
to, an intelligence agency, or
(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an
agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or
foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation; or
(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose
past or present intelligence relationship to the United States
is classified information and who is a present or former agent
of, or a present or former informant or source of operational
assistance to, an intelligence agency.

Plame clearly fits under definition A.. The law does not require that you fit under all 3 catagories since one can't be a citizen and a non citizen. The law also uses the word OR between each definition.

Quote:

(5) The term ''intelligence agency'' means the Central
Intelligence Agency, a foreign intelligence component of the
Department of Defense, or the foreign counterintelligence or
foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation.

Plame clearly worked for the Central Intelligence Agency.

If you were pulling this crap in a court room Tico the judge would have fined you for contempt by this point. You know better.

Tico, can you say without a doubt that Plame hasn't done anything outside of the United States within the last five years?

Cycloptichorn

I heard Victoria Toensing on Fox News this a.m. questioning Plame's status as a covert agent. Plame reportedly returned to Washington from her last overseas assignment in 1997. Is Plame a "covert agent"? I'm certainly not foolish enough to claim that I know one way or another based on the facts as I know them to be. I'll leave that to the libbies on this thread.