9
   

Why Are Supplies Remaining Out of Stock?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 12:23 pm
@chai2,
Eye roll right back at you Chai (although I have a teenaged daughter, so I my eye roll is better).

My point is that this rationing is irrational. If you are going to two individual paper towel rolls, and you don't want to break up the big packs of eight paper towel rolls to meet the ration... why wouldn't you simply limit people to one pack of eight?

As it is right now

- 1 paper towel rolls is OK
- 2 paper rolls is OK
- 3 paper towel rolls is OK (there are three packs)
- 4 paper towel roles is OK since you can buy a three pack + 1 extra
- You can't buy 5 paper towel rolls
- But you can buy 6 (two three packs), or 8 (since there is an 8 pack)
- If you want 7 or 9 or 10 paper towel rolls, you are out of luck
- Of course if you want 11 paper towel rules you can get an 8 pack plus a 3 pack.
- But, 12... the number of paper towel rolls shall not be 12.
- There is no problem buying16 paper towel rolls.

There is no logic to this.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 12:47 pm
@maxdancona,
I think it is just easier to put out a sign - only 2 per person. They cannot really break out packages to sell individually so they probably have one sign for all paper products that say 2 per person. Each day they probably get different types of packing in their shipments - some with one roll; some with 4; etc. and some days they might get the 8 rolls.

Just probably most efficient to have one sign.

And if you have a large household you need that pack of 8 times 2.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 12:51 pm
It seems like people support these types of limits, in spite of the fact that they don't make sense to economists.

I think this is another example of something everyone supports because it sounds good even though it is not rational.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 05:04 pm
@maxdancona,
It's more rational than having the price of toilet paper go up %1000 so that many people just have to do without.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 05:20 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

It's more rational than having the price of toilet paper go up %1000 so that many people just have to do without.


You are making an emotional argument.. not a rational one.

The price of toilet paper should be the market price. Yes, the market price will go up some naturally as the demand goes up. But as the price rises there will be less demand and more incentive for supply. This will put downward pressure on the price, and it will find its natural market price. There is no logical reason to believe that the price will go up "1000%".

The market price should be what the market says it is. That is the economic argument.

There is no reason for there to be shortages of toilet paper other than the fact that artificial price controls. The inability for the market to adjust to circumstances results in confusion and inefficiency.

maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 05:28 pm
@Brandon9000,
Even with the price controls, people are "paying" much more.

I want Clorox Wipes and hand sanitizer. I have called several stores to find it. A couple of them have said they have it in stock. So I hopped in the car and drove to the store only to find that they did not have what I need.

As a matter of time, and gas, and frustration... I have spent maybe $50 for hand sanitzer.... and I still don't have any hand sanitizer.

I would much rather if stores had it in stock for a higher price.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 06:00 pm
@maxdancona,
A real life example just came up!

My daughter really wants a Nintendo Switch video game system, and she is say that it would be really nice while she is home from school. I just went online to see if I can get one.

Hm.... turns out they are readily available, for about $150 more than the normal price. See, now I can decide if I really want to buy one. If enough of us say "No" to that price, the price will come down.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 08:11 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You are making an emotional argument.. not a rational one.

The price of toilet paper should be the market price. Yes, the market price will go up some naturally as the demand goes up. But as the price rises there will be less demand and more incentive for supply. This will put downward pressure on the price, and it will find its natural market price. There is no logical reason to believe that the price will go up "1000%".

The market price should be what the market says it is. That is the economic argument.

There is no reason for there to be shortages of toilet paper other than the fact that artificial price controls. The inability for the market to adjust to circumstances results in confusion and inefficiency.

There are variations built into the price of toilet paper already, so companies can analyze how much more people are willing to pay for certain styles, thicknesses, etc.

They can raise the price of certain brands/styles and see how the demand changes; i.e. whether people switch to a different brand/style because the price changed.

If you want to produce and sell premium toilet paper at a high price, you can do that and maybe people will buy your TP; but someone else might undercut your price and then you will have a hard time selling off your inventory without lowering the price.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 08:15 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

A real life example just came up!

My daughter really wants a Nintendo Switch video game system, and she is say that it would be really nice while she is home from school. I just went online to see if I can get one.

Hm.... turns out they are readily available, for about $150 more than the normal price. See, now I can decide if I really want to buy one. If enough of us say "No" to that price, the price will come down.

The price will only come down if the seller wants to part with it for less than their asking price.

They might just decide not to sell it at all, e.g. because it will be a collector's item at some point in the future.

That is what happened during the mortgage meltdown of the late 200os. Housing prices crashed but people didn't want to sell housing at reduced prices so they just rented them instead and because there was plenty of demand for rentals, rents kept increasing until they reached the point they are today.

There was a tiny house movement a few years ago where people were building their own small (tiny) mobile houses as a substitute for high prices/rents of traditional housing, but local governments made laws prohibiting people from living in RVs year-round, so that forced people into buying/renting a traditional house/apartment unless they were willing to move into an RV park or find a piece of land that was zoned for mobile homes.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 09:27 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

I scored! We were down to less than a roll of paper towels.

Been checking places online to see if I could do in-store pick up. Unfortunately they are all out of stock or they say they might have 2-4 packages left - which means probably none.

Looked at Staples - they didn't have in-store pick up on any - but were offering next day shipping free - no minimum purchases. Got 2 packs with six rolls each. (didn't want to try for more as I figured that should be sufficient to hold us up). It did say it could take more than a day due to all the deliveries but even if I get it early next week worth it over not even having to go out.


It was awesome - the delivery said it was next day delivery but with a caveat that due to covid-19 it could be longer. Well - I got it first thing this morning - there was a knock on the door - looked a big box!

Wow - I am going to use them again if needed!
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 10:00 am
@Linkat,
Were they double or triple rolls?

Before all this even began, I had bought a large pack of 24 quadruple rolls, so the equiv. of 96 rolls. I just looked in the laundry room, and there's 17 of those left. So 68 rolls.

I always shopped like this though. Not hoarding, but jeez, if I see 24 rolls of a good brand (Cottonelle) for the equiv of 21 cents a roll, adding maybe the benefit of a hang tag coupon for $2 off, why would I buy a smaller pack where the rolls cost 25 to 30 cents each?


One purchase, done for months and months doesn't take up much room, saved some money. It's a no brainer. I say if you can't find room for 24 rolls of TP in a closet, drawer or under a bed, you have too much stuff anyway.

Last night a friend said he was in the store, and there on the shelves were 2 packs of TP. An 8 pack and a 32 pack (just single rolls, cheap quality). He said he needed the paper, so of course took the 32 pack. He said he felt guilty and like a hoarder walking through the store with such riches. I told him nonsense, it was the sensible thing to do. He'll go through those cheap ass rolls with 2 people in the household quickly enough. Plus now he won't have to experience the angst of being allowed to live.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 10:08 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I always shopped like this though. Not hoarding, but jeez, if I see 24 rolls of a good brand (Cottonelle) for the equiv of 21 cents a roll, adding maybe the benefit of a hang tag coupon for $2 off, why would I buy a smaller pack where the rolls cost 25 to 30 cents each?

Because you just don't need that much, if they are really good paper towels.

Good quality paper towels can be used like washcloths, squeezed out, re-used, and washed as laundry several times before they become unusable.

Just because paper towels are made of paper fiber instead of cotton or some other fiber doesn't mean they shouldn't be washed and re-used until they wear out.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 10:19 am
@chai2,
Quote:
Last night a friend said he was in the store, and there on the shelves were 2 packs of TP. An 8 pack and a 32 pack (just single rolls, cheap quality). He said he needed the paper, so of course took the 32 pack. He said he felt guilty and like a hoarder walking through the store with such riches. I told him nonsense, it was the sensible thing to do. He'll go through those cheap ass rolls with 2 people in the household quickly enough. Plus now he won't have to experience the angst of being allowed to live.


The question is why, in a shortage, picking up a 32 pack is any different than picking up 32 individual rolls.

It isn't logical.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 10:42 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

chai2 wrote:

I always shopped like this though. Not hoarding, but jeez, if I see 24 rolls of a good brand (Cottonelle) for the equiv of 21 cents a roll, adding maybe the benefit of a hang tag coupon for $2 off, why would I buy a smaller pack where the rolls cost 25 to 30 cents each?

Because you just don't need that much, if they are really good paper towels.

Good quality paper towels can be used like washcloths, squeezed out, re-used, and washed as laundry several times before they become unusable.

Just because paper towels are made of paper fiber instead of cotton or some other fiber doesn't mean they shouldn't be washed and re-used until they wear out.


I'm not talking about paper towels. I'm talking about toilet paper. Has anyone been talking about paper towels anywhere?

I use very little paper towels anyway. I buy those good quality bounty select a size, tear of one half sheet, and then tear that in half. Not out of money concerns, but because people have been so wasteful, they don't think that the equiv of a quarter sheet of paper towel is more than enough to use as a napkin or wipe down a counter, etc.
For many things I use cloth towels.

And yeah, if I wipe up water, or wipe down the counter using water, of course I'll just let it dry and use again.

I don't believe toilet paper should be used again. Your choice.

I'm using a handcloth for urinating and rinsing it out and using over and over, cleaning with hand soap every few times.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 11:05 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I'm not talking about paper towels. I'm talking about toilet paper. Has anyone been talking about paper towels anywhere?

I think some posts did refer to paper towels. Sorry, it seems I misread your post.

Quote:
I use very little paper towels anyway. I buy those good quality bounty select a size, tear of one half sheet, and then tear that in half. Not out of money concerns, but because people have been so wasteful, they don't think that the equiv of a quarter sheet of paper towel is more than enough to use as a napkin or wipe down a counter, etc.
For many things I use cloth towels

And yeah, if I wipe up water, or wipe down the counter using water, of course I'll just let it dry and use again.

Ok, we're on the same page then.
Quote:
I don't believe toilet paper should be used again. Your choice.

There is toilet paper made from recycled paper, I believe.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 11:36 am
Anyone who doesn't understand the paper products industry is an idiot. Neither toilet paper nor paper towels operate on a large margin in ordinary times. These products are so cheap to manufacture, that the competition is very high, which keeps the price down. The margin is so low, however, that it is economically inefficient to pay for their storage in warehouses. Building a warehouse to store TP would be fiscal madness. Only the very largest producers will have wholly owned warehouses for their products, and maintenance costs and even a skeleton crew will eat up the margin in a matter of days.

Only simple-minded people think that all production, product storage and product transportation works the same way for all products.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 11:42 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:




Quote:
I don't believe toilet paper should be used again. Your choice.

There is toilet paper made from recycled paper, I believe.


Stop that.

I said the toilet paper isn't something, to be used again.

That has nothing to do with what type of paper the TP is originally made from

You obviously know the difference of what I said, and what you said.

If you don't, figure it out.


Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 12:07 pm
@chai2,
These were paper towels and I think they are just regular - it say 165 sheets per roll - I like the select a size ones better as you don't always need the full sheet - but beggers can't be choosers.

For TP I usually get mega rolls - just makes it easier as I don't need to change up rolls as often. And I usually get a very large pack (paper towels too) and store the extras in the basement - like you I buy the good ones that are on sale and store them. I was just near the end of my supply when this all happened.

But yeah recently I was in the store and they just had the four packs of the cheap toilet paper rolls --- I bought a pack as back up. Haven't gotten to them yet - but we are close so the search for TP will start soon. I was just hoping the supplies would come back by the time I actually need them.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 12:07 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
...I would much rather if stores had it in stock for a higher price.

But some 10 posts later (#6982984), you say that you will more than likely use a wait 'em out approach on the Nintendo thing your daughter is keen on.

Make up your mind! Higher price, is it good or bad?

Of course I see your Tea Party reasoning. "I want Clorox Wipes and hand sanitizer and I am willing to shell out ten times the regular cost, and hey, I can afford it.
Too darned bad for those who don't have so much money. Guess they'll be needing to soap up their hands more and wipe things down with whatever they can find.


But, when it comes to the Nintendo, you figure, Hey, like low income,or lacking in resources folk, can't be affording this anyhow, so we can wait and then i can brag about how danged smart I am.


maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Apr, 2020 12:18 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Quote:
...I would much rather if stores had it in stock for a higher price.

But some 10 posts later (#6982984), you say that you will more than likely use a wait 'em out approach on the Nintendo thing your daughter is keen on.

Make up your mind! Higher price, is it good or bad?

Of course I see your Tea Party reasoning. "I want Clorox Wipes and hand sanitizer and I am willing to shell out ten times the regular cost, and hey, I can afford it.
Too darned bad for those who don't have so much money. Guess they'll be needing to soap up their hands more and wipe things down with whatever they can find.


But, when it comes to the Nintendo, you figure, Hey, like low income,or lacking in resources folk, can't be affording this anyhow, so we can wait and then i can brag about how danged smart I am.


Nice ad-hominem with the "Tea Party Reasoning" comment. I haven't heard term in at least 12 years.

My position seems to be the standard opinion of most economists. The majority of economists oppose anti price gouging legislation because restricting prices in a crisis leads to shortages.

I don't see what "gotcha" you seem to think you have.

1) As far as policy; prices should generally to be free to move to their natural market values even in a crisis.

2) Personally, when prices go up (for whatever reason) I will choose whether the new price on each product matches its value to me.

3) If the price is higher than the value it has to me, then I won't buy it. I would gladly pay $5 for a bottle of hand sanitizer (much higher than the normal cost). I won't pay more than $500 for a video game console. My waiting until the price comes down is what makes the price come down for everyone.

4) You are talking as if you are worried about poor people... but poor people aren't getting hand sanitizer either. The store shelves are empty for everyone.








 

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