9
   

Why Are Supplies Remaining Out of Stock?

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 03:52 pm
We've always had the Clorox wipes, and The Girl had no problem getting more on her last store run.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 03:54 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

There is an interesting similar problem with Ticket prices for shows.

In any product there is the real market price (i.e. what people are willing to pay), and the ticket price. If the ticket price is the same as the market price, everyone just pays and the market works.

Often the ticket price for a show like Hamilton is significantly lower than the real market price. This is artificial and causes irrational behavior. This is the only time you see hoarding and scalpers... people buying up more tickets than they need because they know they can sell them at a profit. If the ticket price is the market price, then no one can do this.

In a normal market, the sticker price for a dozen eggs is the same as the market price. People just buy the eggs they need from the market efficiently. There is no pressure for people to buy more eggs than they need.

If the market price for eggs goes up (during a crisis for example) and the sticker price also goes up. There is no problem. People will still buy the eggs they need from the market. There will be no reason to buy more, in fact as the price goes up people will generally buy less.

What is happening is artificial. The market price for eggs (and toilet paper, and clorox wipes) is going up. But the sticker prices for these products at supermarkets is being artificially held down. We have made it socially impossible for business to do the natural thing, and this causes problems.

As long as the sticker price is artificially lower than the market price, you are going to face disruption in the market. This leads to empty shelves, hoarding or both.


Whenever the price of anything goes up, the market is sending a signal to buy less and produce more.

People who can't afford a product whose price is rising, or who just don't want to waste that much money on it, seek substitutes.

If the prices of everything (and their substitutes) are going up, and people's money is running low/out, they could look for ways to make things for themselves, e.g. grow their own food, make their own clothes, etc.

Or they might start forming criminal organizations/gangs to control supply chains, exploit people outside the organization with unfair prices, etc.

Isn't that basically what corporations and insurance groups do?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 03:54 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

We've always had the Clorox wipes, and The Girl had no problem getting more on her last store run.


I don't know where you are. Clorox Wipes haven't been seen anywhere near here (just outside of Boston) for weeks.

Maybe you should go into business Wink.

I know people who would pay double the normal price for them.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 04:09 pm
It is interesting how we allow the price of gas to fluctuate. Gasoline is always sold at the real market rate. I don't think there is any other commodity that does that.

I don't see how gasoline is any different economically than eggs.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 04:10 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

It is interesting how we allow the price of gas to fluctuate. Gasoline is always sold at the real market rate. I don't think there is any other commodity that does that.

I don't see how gasoline is any different economically than eggs.

Eggs are food for human bodies. Gasoline is food for machines.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 05:59 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I find it rather odd that LivingLava is arguing for price controls. But this argument doesn't really interest me. So I will leave it there.

The idea that people are snapping up toilet paper as an investment (with plans to sell it later) seems ridiculous.


My choice would be to f0rbid large increases in price during emergencies, encourage stores to limit the number of units of each product that one customer can buy, and prosecute people who profiteer (price gouge) during emergencies.

Some people cannot afford to buy their supplies if they all cost vastly more than the pre-emergency prices, and will have to simply do without. Personally, if I were a judge on the case of someone who raised the price of gasoline 500% just before a hurricane, or something like that, I would tend to give the harshest penalty allowed by law.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 06:01 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The alternative is empty shelves. Clorox wipes aren't available at any price.

I suppose we have to choose, but if we are going to artificially restrict the market so there are no price increases, empty shelves is the obvious consequence.



Or y0u could just limit the number of units of each product that anyone could buy.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 06:03 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
My choice would be to f0rbid large increases in price during emergencies, encourage stores to limit the number of units that one customer can buy, and prosecute people who profiteer (price gouge) during emergencies.


This is basically what we are doing. We aren't legally forbidding it, but there is enough social pressure to make it untenable.

This sets up an artificial market condition; where market value (set by demand) is significantly higher than the sticker price. The resulting confusion is understandable. This is why we have empty shelves for products you wouldn't expect. Setting limits on how much people can buy increases demand and raises the market value even more.

Maybe this is still the right thing to do, but the downside is that it creates economic volatility and inefficiencies in the market.
Methen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 06:04 pm
@Brandon9000,
No there just greedy ass little bastards all for their self...
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 06:17 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
My choice would be to f0rbid large increases in price during emergencies, encourage stores to limit the number of units that one customer can buy, and prosecute people who profiteer (price gouge) during emergencies.


This is basically what we are doing. We aren't legally forbidding it...

Actually, I believe it is illegal during a declared emergency. I know of cases in which people have been prosecuted. There are probably regional differences in enforcement.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 07:12 pm
@Brandon9000,
Maybe that is that right thing to do, but it is foolish to pretend that this type of economic interference doesn't have negative consequences.

Paying workers overtime (i.e. "time and a half") is a form of surge pricing. If we want more stuff quickly I assume you agree that this increase in cost is reasonable.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Apr, 2020 08:48 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Maybe that is that right thing to do, but it is foolish to pretend that this type of economic interference doesn't have negative consequences.

Paying workers overtime (i.e. "time and a half") is a form of surge pricing. If we want more stuff quickly I assume you agree that this increase in cost is reasonable.

I don't mind paying someone time and a half for hazardous duty, but I do mind letting a vendor charge someone ten times what a product cost before the emergency, and, if I had the power, I would put such a person in jail.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 07:13 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Actually, I believe it is illegal during a declared emergency. I know of cases in which people have been prosecuted. There are probably regional differences in enforcement.


Yes some people are getting prosecuted or at least threatened - it happened to that hoarder that was banned from amazon - he was trying to sell hand sanitizer for a very large profit. He was threatened with prosecution and he found the light and donated it all.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 07:15 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Maybe that is that right thing to do, but it is foolish to pretend that this type of economic interference doesn't have negative consequences.

Paying workers overtime (i.e. "time and a half") is a form of surge pricing. If we want more stuff quickly I assume you agree that this increase in cost is reasonable.



They are allowed a reasonable markup - I cannot remember - there is actually some percentage and it is I believe over the cost of producing the product - it is just not allowed to raise the prices incredibly high to take advantage of hoarding/emergency situations.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 07:18 am
Here I found something on this - it is of course depending on the state:

In most states, price gouging during a time of emergency is considered a violation of unfair or deceptive trade practices law. Most of these laws provide for civil penalties, as enforced by the state attorney general, while some state laws also enforce criminal penalties for price gouging violations.

full link
https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/price-gouging-laws-by-state.html

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 07:46 am
@Linkat,
It seems like the majority of economists agree with me, that these price gouging laws (while good politics) do more harm then good.

https://hbr.org/2013/07/the-problem-with-price-gouging-laws

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/regulation/2011/4/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2016/09/23/price-gouging-laws-are-good-politics-but-bad-economics/#4454013b64d3
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 10:57 am
I scored! We were down to less than a roll of paper towels.

Been checking places online to see if I could do in-store pick up. Unfortunately they are all out of stock or they say they might have 2-4 packages left - which means probably none.

Looked at Staples - they didn't have in-store pick up on any - but were offering next day shipping free - no minimum purchases. Got 2 packs with six rolls each. (didn't want to try for more as I figured that should be sufficient to hold us up). It did say it could take more than a day due to all the deliveries but even if I get it early next week worth it over not even having to go out.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 11:39 am
@Linkat,
You are in the Boston area, aren't you Linkat?

The stores around me (Watertown) have had paper towels and toilet paper. They all limit sales to 2 items (but then sell the 8 packs as an item which I don't really understand).

I am still looking for Clorox wipes and hand sanitizer. If you know where I can find that in the greater Boston area, please do tell.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 11:46 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You are in the Boston area, aren't you Linkat?

The stores around me (Watertown) have had paper towels and toilet paper. They all limit sales to 2 items (but then sell the 8 packs as an item which I don't really understand).

I am still looking for Clorox wipes and hand sanitizer. If you know where I can find that in the greater Boston area, please do tell.



Yeah I am in the south shore - for some strange reason I cannot find any. TP or PT. Haven't looked for hand sanitizer or clorox wipes because we are not in need right now. We were low on PT as I noted and getting there on TP.

But what I have found is to look at places you normally would not go to for these - try the office supply stores or hardware stores. I did online searches -
my brother because he works a couple of nights at home depot - posted they got some both those items you were looking for at the Avon store - more likely gone now.

But you can look online and see if there is store pick up - these harder to find items though seem to just note that there are a few left in the store. I found this unreliable and I'd go there and there would not be any. So I suggest doing what I did and you might get lucky.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Apr, 2020 12:17 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

maxdancona wrote:


They all limit sales to 2 items (but then sell the 8 packs as an item which I don't really understand).









Rolling Eyes

Yeah, because whenever there's a sale on boxes of cookies and there's a limit of 2 items, you must open the package and remove 2, and that's all you get.

Obviously there needs to be an employee in the TP area opening 8 and 16 packs of TP, and handing each customer 2 rolls.

This one time?
I was in the 10 items or fewer line, and I had a dozen eggs. They made me get out of line and stand behind someone with a full cart.

Good thing I only buy at the most 2 or 3 bananas at a time.



 

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