@MozartLink,
Other Person's Response: Emotions are external, such as expressions of love and joy, while feelings are internal.
My Reply: But, again, I use the terms feelings and emotions interchangeably. So, I don't call those expressions emotions. Rather, I just refer to them as expressions of love, joy, hate, sorrow, etc.
Other Person's Response: You could revise this entire document, so that the terms feelings and emotions aren't used interchangeably.
My Reply: That's too much work for something that's not that important anyway. So, just accept my usage of those terms interchangeably.
Other Person's Response: When thoughts make us feel emotions, whatever we thought of takes on the form of an emotional experience for us. For example, if someone thought a cinematic scene was horrific, and that thought made him feel horror in regards to that scene, then that's giving him a horrific, cinematic, emotional experience.
My Reply: Yes, and that feeling of horror would be a perception of horror, which means that feeling makes him perceive that scene as horrific. Also, there are different feelings of horror because a person can have different thoughts of horror. For example, the thought that the death of your loved one is horrific is a different thought than thinking a cinematic scene is horrific. Thus, there are different feelings (perceptions) of horror, such as the horror of losing a loved one, cinematic horror, the horror of witnessing natural disasters, etc.
Other Person's Response: There are also different forms of beauty, such as tropical beauty, aquatic beauty, technological beauty, etc.
My Reply: Yes. So, there are different feelings (perceptions) of beauty. Also, happy and loving thoughts make us feel happy and loving emotions, and there are different forms of happiness and love, such as the feeling of love you get when you witness an animal, the feeling of love you get when you witness a family member, the feeling of happiness you get from playing a sport, the feeling of happiness you get from getting a new movie, etc.
Other Person's Response: If a person had the thought of wanting, liking, or disliking something, and that thought made him feel wanting, liking, or disliking in regards to that thing, then that's giving him a wanting, liking, or disliking emotional experience.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: If a person felt grief over the loss of someone, then that feeling of grief is actually a feeling of love, since grief is a form of love. Grieving shows you deeply loved that person.
My Reply: Love and grief aren't the same thing, just as how happiness and sadness aren't the same thing. Sure, loving someone does result in grief over that person's death. But, love is a different feeling than grief, since love is a positive, gentle emotion, while grief is a negative, devastating emotion. Thus, love and grief are different things.
Other Person's Response: So, a loving mindset is different than a grieving mindset?
My Reply: Yes. These 2 mindsets yield 2 different feelings (feelings of love and grief).
Other Person's Response: Being happy about getting something does result in sadness over the loss of that thing. But, that sadness wouldn't be happiness.
My Reply: Right, and neither would grief be love.
Other Person's Response: You say love can only be a pleasant feeling. But, can't love be an unpleasant feeling, such as feeling deep concern and compassion for someone who's suffering?
My Reply: No. That would just be a feeling of concern and compassion. Each feeling is unique. For example, a feeling of anger can only be anger, and can't be sadness or joy. A feeling of sadness can only be sadness, and can't be jealousy or regret, etc.
Other Person's Response: The goal of Buddhism is to reduce suffering, and not allowing pain to consume you is a method of reducing suffering.
My Reply: Right. But, it would be better if suffering was eliminated completely, rather than reduced as much as possible. So, it would be best if life was a blissful utopia, where there's no more suffering.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, Buddhists should be seeking the holy, divine states (positive emotions), in addition to eliminating their suffering.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: Did you passively observe your emotions like the Buddhist teaching advised in that youtube video?
My Reply: Yes, and it did nothing to reduce my suffering during my emotional traumas.
Other Person's Response: Perhaps it didn't reduce your suffering because you still believe, subconsciously, that emotions are more than just feelings. You believe they color our entire world, and having such a subconscious belief will make your emotions all-consuming feelings for you, regardless of any conscious effort to reduce your suffering.
My Reply: I'm not sure.
Other Person's Response: Even if you believed that emotions were nothing more than trivial feelings, your emotions might still be all-consuming feelings for you because you're weak-minded. Even passively observing your emotions won't do anything to reduce your suffering because it takes a strong mind to achieve this.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: During your emotional traumas, you were a miserable, suicidal, suffering individual who couldn't will himself out it. There are also other such people who can't will themselves out of their miserable, suicidal, states of mind. So, I'm not sure why god and the heavenly beings allow them to suffer. Why don't they heal them?
My Reply: I'm not sure. When I'm fully recovered from an emotional trauma, I'm no longer in such a state anymore. But, I could've gotten to a full recovery in an instant if god or a heavenly being just healed me.
Other Person's Response: Many people would say your philosophy is very shallow. Thus, these people would call you a shallow person. But, I heard you have a composing dream, and that you wish to astonish the world by creating compositions that are out of the ordinary and otherworldly. That, right there, shows you're not a shallow person because you wish to express something that's out of the ordinary, unlike the many shallow people in this world who wish to create ordinary, lame, stale, mediocre music.
My Reply: Right. So, people shouldn't judge me, based upon my philosophy.
Other Person's Response: If people read your material, and they conclude you're childish, then perhaps they're just having a misunderstanding of you.
My Reply: Right. If people were to meet my mother, she'd say I'm very mature. So, that shows I am mature.
Other Person's Response: If all the scenes in your horrific nightmares no longer had feelings of horror, but now had feelings of beauty, then that would make those scenes beautiful now, rather than horrific.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: You could've consciously realized that works of art were meaningful, but had the subconscious, morbid thought that they were meaningless during your emotional traumas. Since the subconscious is vastly more powerful than the conscious, then that conscious realization couldn't allow you to perceive them as meaningful. Instead, it was that subconscious thought that dominated your perception, since it was the far more powerful thought.
My Reply: Based upon my personal experience, the perception of those works of art being morbidly insignificant and meaningless was an emotional state (a miserable state). Yes, I did have that subconscious thought. But, it wasn't that thought alone that made me perceive those works of art as morbidly insignificant and meaningless.
Other Person's Response: It could be the case that we can only be aware of the 1st type of meaning in the absence of our emotions, but can't perceive said meaning. So, we might need emotions to perceive meaning as well.
My Reply: That could be. Also, I normally perceive anime and video game characters as awesome characters that seem real, which means that's how I normally feel about them. But, I realized they're not real because they're just animated drawings and not actual, living beings or entities. It seems as though that realization didn't allow me to perceive them as unreal, since I wasn't feeling that they were unreal. So, perhaps we can only acknowledge meaning and certain things in the absence of our emotions, but can't perceive said meaning and things.
Other Person's Response: If you weren't feeling that those characters were unreal, then that means the very notion they're unreal didn't matter to you, and neither did you perceive them as unreal.
My Reply: Right. We need to feel emotions in regards to something in order for that thing to matter to us, and to perceive it as unreal, real, good, bad, meaningful, etc.
Other Person's Response: There were moments in your life where you were miserable, and perceived music as morbidly insignificant and meaningless. You realized music was meaningful because it qualifies as a meaningful work of art. But, that realization didn't allow you to perceive music as meaningful, which means you still saw it as morbidly insignificant and meaningless.
My Reply: Right. If someone was miserable because he lost a loved one, then the realization that money, riches, and luxury are meaningful just wouldn't make them meaningful in his eyes. He'd still perceive them as morbidly insignificant and meaningless. Unless, of course, that realization managed to make him feel they were meaningful, despite his misery. Then he'd be seeing them as meaningful.
Other Person's Response: Emotions also make things significant in our eyes, don't they?
My Reply: Yes. Positive emotions make things positively significant to us, and negative emotions make things negatively significant to us.
Other Person's Response: A certain scent, such as the smell of a skunk, is just a scent that's nothing pleasant or unpleasant. But, when a person smells a skunk, and he thinks it's a pleasant scent, then his brain will interpret the scent as pleasant, which makes it a pleasant scent for him. So, it's not the thought alone that made the scent pleasant for him. The scent had to, neuroscientifically speaking, become pleasant for him, which means his brain had to undergo the process of interpreting the scent as pleasant.
My Reply: I don't know how the brain works, though. But, based upon my personal experience, I do know that our thoughts and beliefs alone can't make anything pleasant or unpleasant for us. So, again, they, alone, can't give us any pleasant or unpleasant experience.
Other Person's Response: So, pleasantness and unpleasantness are qualia (qualities of experience), and they're not thought qualities?
My Reply: Correct.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, good, bad, etc. are also qualia, and they're emotional qualities.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, we can't embrace the awesome power of works of art without our emotions because there'd be no awesomeness to embrace.
My Reply: Right. Even if works of art were still awesome without our emotions, we wouldn't be able to embrace said awesomeness, since we'd be apathetic.
Other Person's Response: Before we're born into a new life, our knowledge and forms of personal growth are erased? Why must they be erased? If, for whatever reason, they do need to be erased, then why can't a portion of it be preserved (such as the most important knowledge and forms of personal growth)? Why must it all be erased?
My Reply: I'm not sure.
Other Person's Response: You wait for the storm to pass, rather than being like a rock that stands firm amidst the storm?
My Reply: Yes. I wait for my emotional traumas to completely pass before pursuing my composing dream again.
Other Person's Response: Perhaps it's the case that emotions aren't positive or negative perceptions, and it's our thoughts that are. But, during your emotional traumas, maybe those positive, conscious thoughts you've had couldn't give you a positive perception because you had nothing but negative, subconscious thoughts. The subconscious is vastly more powerful than the conscious. Thus, it's our subconscious mindset that determines our perspective, and not our conscious mindset.
For example, if someone had a subconscious belief, such as a belief in Christianity, and he had the conscious thought that he doesn't believe in Christianity, then that won't change his Christian belief. After all, how can a person just think away a belief he already has? It's impossible. Another example would be if someone had the subconscious mindset that he hates someone, and consciously thought to himself that he loves this person. That won't change his hateful perspective.
In order for his hateful perspective to change to a loving one, then his subconscious mindset would need to change to a loving mindset. With that being said, I think it was all those negative, subconscious thoughts that were preventing you from having a positive perception. As you slowly and gradually recover from your emotional traumas, those negative thoughts fade on their own, and positive, subconscious thoughts start to take their place. Thus, you're able to have a positive perspective on life again.
My Reply: Based on my personal experience, I think it's only our emotions that are positive and negative perceptions. So, I think the reason why I couldn't have a positive perception during my emotional traumas was because I was unable to feel positive emotions.
Other Person's Response: You said there were very few moments where you could feel positive emotions during your emotional traumas.
My Reply: Yes, which means I did have a positive perception during very few moments. But, I mostly had negative perceptions (negative emotions) during my emotional traumas.
Other Person's Response: If someone didn't believe in Christianity, and he had the conscious thought that he believed, then that wouldn't allow him to believe in Christianity.
My Reply: Right. So, he'd still have the perspective of disbelieving in Christianity.
Other Person's Response: I heard that, when you're happy and doing just fine, you're a loving individual, since you feel love towards yourself, nature, and other animals. You're no longer that hateful individual you were when you had those emotional traumas.
My Reply: Yes. But, I'm not one of the most loving people in the world, since I don't feel powerful love that motivates me to dedicate my life to the helping of people and animals.
Other Person's Response: When you're having an emotional trauma, you feel hate, and feeling that way is something out of your control. But, that hate vanishes when you're fully recovered from an emotional trauma, and you now feel positive emotions, such as love.
My Reply: Yes. The recovery process is a process that rids of the negativity, and restores the positivity.
Other Person's Response: All those negative emotions you feel during an emotional trauma are part of the recovery process.
My Reply: Right. But, still, they're negative experiences, and having them is no way to live or be an artist.
Other Person's Response: When thoughts make us feel emotions, whatever we thought of takes on the form of an emotional experience for us. For example, if someone thought a cinematic scene was horrific, and that thought made him feel horror in regards to that scene, then that's giving him a horrific, cinematic, emotional experience.
My Reply: Yes, and that feeling of horror would be a perception of horror, which means that feeling makes him perceive that scene as horrific. Also, there are different feelings of horror because a person can have different thoughts of horror. For example, the thought that the death of your loved one is horrific is a different thought than thinking a cinematic scene is horrific. Thus, there are different feelings (perceptions) of horror, such as the horror of losing a loved one, cinematic horror, the horror of witnessing natural disasters, etc.
Other Person's Response: There are also different forms of beauty, such as tropical beauty, aquatic beauty, technological beauty, etc.
My Reply: Yes. So, there are different feelings (perceptions) of beauty. Also, happy and loving thoughts make us feel happy and loving emotions, and there are different forms of happiness and love, such as the feeling of love you get when you witness an animal, the feeling of love you get when you witness a family member, the feeling of happiness you get from playing a sport, the feeling of happiness you get from getting a new movie, etc.
Other Person's Response: If a person had the thought of wanting, liking, or disliking something, and that thought made him feel wanting, liking, or disliking in regards to that thing, then that's giving him a wanting, liking, or disliking emotional experience.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, a person's mood (emotional state) is a person's perspective. For example, if a person is in a happy mood, then that means he's in a happy state of mind, which means he has a happy perspective, which means he's happy. If a person is in a suicidal mood, then that means he's in a suicidal state of mind, which means he has a suicidal perspective, which means he's suicidal.
If a person is in the mood to give up on a goal or dream, then that's the state of mind he's in, which means he has the perspective of giving up on said goal or dream, which means he wants to give up on said goal or dream. Here's one last example. Now, sleepiness isn't a mood. But, if a person feels sleepy, then that means he's in a sleepy state of mind, which means he has a sleepy perspective, which means he's sleepy.
My Reply: Yes. So, moods are perspectives/perceptions/states of mind. But, a person can act against his mood state. For example, if a person was in a suicidal mood, he could still choose to not commit suicide. Another example would be that a person can still persevere in his goal or dream, despite being in the mood to give up on said goal or dream. Lastly, in regards to wanting, liking, and disliking, such as wanting to give up on a goal or dream, liking someone, or disliking a movie, emotions are wanting, liking, and disliking, which means they're wanting, liking, and disliking perspectives. Here's a link that talks about positive emotions being the reward wanting and liking in the brain:
We have found a special hedonic hotspot that is crucial for reward 'liking' and 'wanting' (and codes reward learning too). The opioid hedonic hotspot is shown in red above. It works together with another hedonic hotspot in the more famous nucleus accumbens to generate pleasure 'liking'.
‘Liking’ and ‘wanting’ food rewards: Brain substrates and roles in eating disorders
Kent C. Berridge 2009 Mar 29.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2717031/
Here's another article as well:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2756052/
Other Person's Response: Now, mental fatigue isn't a mood. But, when a person feels mentally fatigue, he's in a mentally fatigue state of mind, which means he has a mentally fatigue perspective, which means he's mentally fatigue.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: Disliking would be a negative emotion, wouldn't it?
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: Wanting can either be a positive or negative emotion. For example, if you really wanted a new video game that was exciting to you, then that feeling of wanting would be a positive emotion. But, if you were miserable, and wanted to commit suicide, since you can’t handle life anymore, then that wanting would be a negative emotion.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: In regards to liking, it can't be a negative emotion, right?
My Reply: Right. So, liking can only be a rewarding feeling in the brain (a positive emotion), and disliking can only be a disrewarding feeling in the brain (a negative emotion).
Other Person's Response: If a person wanted something, such as a new video game, then that means he had the perspective of wanting that new game.
My Reply: Right, and his wanting would be an emotional state.
Other Person's Response: I realize your philosophy says that wanting, liking, and disliking can only be emotional states.
My Reply: Yes. I base that claim off of my personal experience because I can clearly tell that my emotions are the only wanting, liking
Other Person's Response: You say that emotions are wanting, liking, and disliking. But, what about bodily pleasure and pain? Aren't they a form of wanting, liking, and disliking?
My Reply: Based upon my personal experience, I think only our emotions are wanting, liking, and disliking, since only our emotions can give us the perspective of wanting, liking, and disliking people and things. So, bodily pleasure and pain are just pleasure and pain. Since they don't possess any good, bad, happy, sad, etc. qualities like our emotions do, then I don't think they possess any wanting, liking, or disliking qualities either.
Other Person's Response: Again, perhaps you're allowing your emotions to dominate your perspective, which is why you can't have the perspective of wanting, liking, or disliking anyone or anything through your mindset alone. Perhaps that's the reason why the only way you can want, like, or dislike is through your emotions.
My Reply: Maybe you're right. I'm not sure. Some people would say I have a weak mind that's dominated by emotions.
Other Person's Response: Did you try your best to not allow your emotions to dominate your mind, and did that allow you to want, like, or dislike through your mindset alone?
My Reply: I did try, and it didn't work at all.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, we'd have an apathetic perspective without our ability to feel emotions, which means we couldn't care about anyone or anything, nothing would matter to us, and neither could we want, like, or dislike.
My Reply: That's right. Having the mindset alone of caring about people and things won't give us a caring perspective, as long as we're unable to feel emotions. So, without emotions, we'd still be apathetic, regardless of our mindset. The same idea applies to wanting, liking, and disliking. Just having the mindset alone of wanting, liking, or disliking something won't allow us to want, like, or dislike that thing. That's been my personal experience.
Other Person's Response: So, without emotions, we'd be in an apathetic state of mind, regardless of our mindset?
My Reply: Correct.
Other Person's Response: If a person wasn't feeling sleepy, then he couldn't be sleepy through his mindset alone of being sleepy, which means that mindset alone couldn't give him a sleepy perspective. The same thing applies to mental fatigue.
My Reply: Right. As you can see, our mindset alone can't make us happy, want, like, caring, sleepy, mentally fatigue, etc.
Other Person's Response: Just having the mindset of being hungry or thirsty isn't the same thing as being hungry or thirsty.
My Reply: Right. A person needs to feel hungry or thirsty to be hungry or thirsty. So, it's our feelings that make us hungry, thirsty, sleepy, want, like, dislike, happy, sad, loving, caring, etc., and not our mindset alone.
Other Person's Response: Pain and pleasure are also feelings, and a person can't be in bodily pain or pleasure through his mindset alone.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: So, our mindset alone can't put us in a state of love, happiness, fear, sleepiness, fatigue, etc.?
My Reply: It can't. Neither can it put us in a state of mental turmoil or suffering. So, when a person has an emotionally traumatized mindset, then that mindset alone can't put him in a state of mental turmoil and agony. His mindset needs to make him emotionally traumatized in order for him to be in a state of mental turmoil and agony.
Other Person's Response: So, if I couldn't feel any emotions, and I had the mindset of something mattering to me, then that thing wouldn't matter to me?
My Reply: It wouldn't. That mindset needs to make you feel an emotion in regards to that thing in order for that thing to matter to you because the only way something can matter to us is through our emotions, and not through our mindset alone.
Other Person's Response: Emotions are transient, fleeting things. So, if a person relies on his emotions to be happy and to love others, then his happiness and love can never be everlasting.
My Reply: Right. But, my philosophy says that happiness and love can only be emotional states, since emotions are the only loving, happy, hateful, sad, frightened, etc. perspectives.
Other Person's Response: Happiness and love are positive emotions, right?
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: In regards to the youtube link to that Buddhist video, if emotions were perspectives as you claim they are, then wouldn't it be obvious to those Buddhists? So, wouldn't the Buddhists not be treating emotions as trivial feelings?
My Reply: Many people, including Buddhists, trivialize emotions, and such a view of emotions blinds them to the fact that emotions are perspectives, have major significance in our lives, and aren't trivial feelings we should just passively observe. So, their view of emotions makes this fact not obvious to them.
Other Person's Response: When people have power over their emotions, and dismiss them as trivial things, then that will certainly blind them to the fact you've pointed out.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: If emotions made things matter to us, then it would be quite obvious to those Buddhists that their emotions make things matter to them.
My Reply: Again, they have a view of emotions that blinds them.
Other Person's Response: Those Buddhists have power over their emotions, and perhaps this is the reason why their emotions are nothing more than trivial feelings for them. But, for you, your emotions are perspectives and perceptions of good, bad, etc. that make people and things matter to you. Maybe that's because you don't have power over your emotions, and they instead have power over you.
My Reply: Well, there are many people, including me, who say that emotions are perspectives, perceptions of good, bad, etc., and that they're not trivial feelings.
Other Person's Response: You say that our emotions aren't trivial things, and that we'd be apathetic without our ability to feel emotions. As a matter of fact, there are many people who say this. Here's an example of a person who says this (it's a short article):
http://philosophy.talons43.ca/2015/11/13/what-if-humans-had-no-emotions/
In case people don't have internet access, or can't access that website, for whatever reason, I'll just post the article below:
What if humans had no emotions?
By Cassidy
I came upon my inspiration for this post during our class today. Our task was to simply state how we worked well and what we could improve amongst ourselves, however our discussion ventured far from that path. We emotionally argued about the existence of emotions, and I began to wonder if the ideal resolution would be to not have emotions. But what would that entail?
I feel that emotions are an intricate part of our lives, whether we realize it or not. A lot of people would recognize passion as the single most important element of life. What is passion driven by? If we are passionate certainly we are not void of emotion. What about marriage? Love is a common emotion that forms a foundation for many actions humans partake in from marriage and children to forming trust to bonds between teammates.
Let’s not forget that the little emotions are the great captains of our lives and we obey them without realizing it. ~Vincent Van Gogh, 1889
Vincent accurately describes how I view emotions. Their role in our lives is enormous and constant; an unconscious command.
Without emotions, our lives as humans would be void and pointless, with no motivation or inspiration to do great things. We would live in a dull world where nothing had meaning. Ambition would be not captured or understood and we would operate like robots or artificial intelligence.
Think of emotions as colour. All the neon and highlighter colours would turn into a grayscale. The world would seem black and white, figuratively and literally.
Literally our word would be black and white. Figuratively the world would lose meaning or purpose.
I looked online to see if my thoughts on emotions were far off from others, and I found a large collection of words on emotion in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. In it I found an interesting quote:
Descartes said it thus: “it is impossible for the soul to feel a passion without that passion being truly as one feels it.”
I understand this as passion being the rawest form of emotion. It's a form that only the keeper can interpret correctly. I think we underestimate the power of emotions in our daily lives and may even neglect them. We shouldn’t feel like emotions are a sign of weakness, we should think of it as a form of strength. They make us who we are, creating diversity between us all. I think that we don’t have emotions, emotions have us.
My Reply: In that article, it also talks about how emotions color our world. In this document, I say our emotions color our world in goodness, badness, beauty, horror, etc. My personal experience has led me to this conclusion, and, as it turns out, this article also comes to the conclusion that emotions are like colors.
Other Person's Response: Here's the Stanford link to emotions:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/emotion/#9
My Reply: Thanks for sharing.
Other Person's Response: If emotions were so vital, then why does god and the astral beings (heavenly beings) allow our emotions to be taken away from us? For example, traumatized people are often emotionally numb. So, why doesn't god or the astral beings just use their healing powers to cure their emotional numbness? There are also mental illnesses that render us without emotions, and I'm not sure why god or the astral beings don't heal said illnesses.
My Reply: I'm not sure. Perhaps god and the astral beings don't exist. If they do exist, then perhaps they're unloving, uncaring beings who don't care what happens to humanity.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, it's the positive emotions we need. So, god or the astral beings should be using their healing powers to preserve them.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: If god and the astral beings didn't feel anything in regards to humanity, then they'd be unloving and uncaring in regards to humanity. But, if they felt love and other emotions in regards to other things, such as other beings, then they'd be loving and caring in regards to those things.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: We can't be happy as long as we're apathetic. Since we're apathetic without our emotions, then happiness can only be an emotion.
My Reply: Yes. The same idea applies to love, hate, fear, rage, compassion, sorrow, etc.
Other Person's Response: Is the only way a person can be apathetic is if he's not feeling any emotions?
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: In that article, it said we'd have no interest or passion without emotions. Love, hate, sorrow, fear, happiness, etc. also wouldn't exist without emotions.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: People who trivialize emotions, and claim love and happiness aren't emotions, could give you some very helpful advice that could change your philosophy to a better one.
My Reply: I've listened to such advice, and it didn't work at all for me. I've tried trivializing my own emotions, just getting on with life, regardless if I'm not in the mood to do things, living by what people claim to be a better view of love and happiness, etc., and none of it worked for me. In other words, none of it has changed my philosophy.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, if a person was in a battlefield, and he felt the fear to run away, then he had the fearful perspective of wanting to run away. If he acted against this feeling/perspective by not running away and remaining in the battlefield to protect someone, then he was still a coward, since it's our emotional state (perspective) that determines whether we're cowardly, happy, sad, loving, hateful, caring, etc., and not our actions, deeds, tones, gestures, and expressions.
So, the fact he felt fear made him a coward, regardless of how bold and brave he behaved. Also, if a person felt happy (had a happy perspective), and he acted sad, then he was still happy. Just because he acted sad doesn't mean he was sad. Lastly, if a person didn't feel any emotion at all (had an apathetic perspective), and he acted like he cared about others, then he was still apathetic. Just because he acted caring doesn't mean he was caring.
My Reply: Right. So, we shouldn't judge based upon a person's acts, tones, and expressions. As a matter of fact, it's often the case that a person's acts, tones, and expressions can't be trusted. For example, a serial killer can act loving. But, that doesn't mean he's a loving individual. He could be trying to deceive people. Another example would be a depressed person who fakes a smile and acts happy, even though he's not happy.
Other Person's Response: If that serial killer changed as an individual, and had a loving mindset, then he'd be a loving individual if that loving mindset made him feel love?
My Reply: Yes. His loving mindset would've given him a loving, emotional experience (a loving perspective), and that's what would make him a loving individual.
Other Person's Response: Your philosophy says that a loving mindset alone can't give us a loving perspective because we can't love anyone (have a loving perspective) if nobody matters to us, and nobody can matter to us in the absence of our emotions. So, that means love has to be an emotion, and not a mindset.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: If love is an emotion, then that means there is no loving mindset because our mindset can't be love. So, if a person had the mindset of loving someone, then that wouldn't be a loving mindset.
My Reply: Right. Also, there are no loving acts, deeds, tones, or expressions because they're not love either. The same thing applies to fear, hate, sadness, etc.
Other Person's Response: Your philosophy also says there are no good, bad, beautiful, disgusting, etc. mindsets, acts, deeds, tones, or expressions because good, bad, etc. are emotions as well.
My Reply: Right. Actually, feeling good, bad, etc. about things is what makes those things good, bad, etc. I discuss more on this soon enough.
Other Person's Response: When we express our emotions, we're really expressing what's on the inside. So, if a person felt the fear to run away in a battlefield, and he expressed that fear, then he'd be running away, rather than staying to protect someone. So, he'd be expressing his inner cowardliness (his fear to run away). Even if he didn't express it by protecting someone, that inner cowardliness would still be there, motivating him to run away. So, he'd still be a coward, regardless if he protected someone. Here's another example. If someone felt childish emotions, such as the desire to whine and lash out, then he'd still be childish on the inside, regardless if he behaved in a mature manner by not acting out on said emotions. So, he'd still be childish, regardless of how mature he behaved. He just wouldn't be expressing his inner childishness.
My Reply: Correct. It's not our mindset, acts, deeds, tones, and expressions that define us. It's our emotions that do. That's why a person would still be a coward if he felt fear, even if he had a brave mindset and performed brave deeds, and that's why a person would still be childish if he felt childish emotions, even if he had a mature mindset and behaved maturely.
Other Person's Response: If a person had an apathetic mindset, then that can't make him apathetic if he's feeling emotions.
My Reply: Right. So, our mindset doesn't make us apathetic, cowardly, brave, happy, childish, mature, etc.
Other Person's Response: That means we couldn't have an apathetic, cowardly, childish, etc. mindset because apathy, cowardliness, childishness, etc. are emotional states, rather than mindsets. Of course, apathy wouldn't be an emotional state because it's a lack of emotion.
My Reply: Right. But, I still sometimes go outside my philosophical definition of apathy, cowardliness, childishness, etc., just for the sake of convenience. For example, I still say I'm a mature person in this document, even if I'm feeling childish emotions. That let's people know how I'm behaving in despite of feeling childish emotions.
Other Person's Response: So, you still sometimes refer to mindsets as being mature, childish, loving, hateful, happy, etc.?
My Reply: Yes. But, again, according to my philosophy, only our emotions are mature, childish, loving, etc.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, braveness is also an emotional state because a person can't be brave if he's not feeling the desire to face his fear or protect someone.
My Reply: Right. A feeling of braveness is a brave perception, and a person can't be brave without that feeling/perception.
Other Person's Response: Fear is an automatic response that people can't help, since fear is there to protect us. So, does that mean people can't help but be cowards in threatening situations?
My Reply: Correct.
Other Person's Response: A person could have 2 mindsets going on at the same time: one happy and one sad. His happy mindset could make him feel happy, while his sad mindset doesn't make him feel sad yet.
My Reply: Right. He could have a happy mindset in regards to one thing, and a sad mindset in regards to another thing, but only feel happy for the time being.
Other Person's Response: It's possible he could have mixed emotions, where his happy mindset makes him feel happy, and his sad mindset makes him feel sad. That means he'd be feeling happiness and sadness at the same time.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: How is it possible to have mixed emotions?
My Reply: It would be like how we're already having mixed experiences as human beings, such as visuals with sounds, smell with taste, bodily pleasure with bodily pain, etc.
Other Person's Response: What if someone had a mix of childish and mature emotions?
My Reply: Then he'd be something like 70% childish and 30% mature. It all depends on the profoundness and intensity of these childish and mature emotions.
Other Person's Response: When something's not troubling or worrying you, do you normally always have pleasant dreams?
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: If these astral beings exist, then perhaps they didn't care if you were to live an Earthly life of suffering or not because, if they wanted you to continue suffering, then they would've made sure you didn't have the ability to recover from your emotional traumas. But, if they didn't want you to suffer, then they would've bestowed upon you the ability to fully recover instantly.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: Perhaps these beings just wanted you to undergo some suffering here on Earth. Maybe that's why you have the ability to recover, but not the enhanced ability to fully recover instantly. If you had the enhanced recovery ability, then you'd immediately recover from your emotional traumas, which means you would've hardly suffered.
My Reply: Right. So, perhaps these beings wanted me to undergo a significant amount of suffering here on Earth, but not suffering that lasts my entire life.
Other Person's Response: There are people who struggle their entire lives with forms of suffering, whether it be chronic, physical pain, chronic, clinical depression, etc.
My Reply: Right. So, did these beings want these people to suffer their entire lives?
Other Person's Response: Some people fully recover from their chronic, physical pain or depression, while others have to live with it their entire lives. So, perhaps these beings just don't care if people suffer or not, and if they have to live with it their entire lives or not.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: Emotions can exist without empathy. But, empathy can't exist without emotions.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: If your mother died, then would you and your younger brother still take care of the cats?
My Reply: Yes. My mother wanted us to, after all.
Other Person's Response: Is the reason why you don't grieve when others die is because you know they'll be in a better, happier place (heaven)?
My Reply: No. I just don't care. Also, I'm undecided on the existence of the afterlife.
Other Person's Response: If you believed in heaven, then would you feel positive about the idea of your dead mother and pets going to heaven?
My Reply: Yes, actually. But, it would just be a brief moment of positivity before I get back to feeling positive about doing my hobbies. So, like I said, I really don't care that much about other people and animals.
Other Person's Response: There was actually a moment in your life where you were miserable because you were worried that you could've died from some health concern.
My Reply: Yes. But, that miserable moment has passed. From now on, if I ever have another health concern, then I don't think it would make me miserable, even if it was a very fatal one.
Other Person's Response: If someone suffered and died before your very eyes, you'd have an uncaring mindset, which would prevent you from grieving?
My Reply: Correct.
Other Person's Response: Your philosophy leaves you closed off to other views of good, bad, love, happiness, etc. So, consciously defining good, bad, etc. as something other than emotional states won't work for you, as long as you still subconsciously have this philosophy. In other words, your philosophy needs to change first before any other definition of good, bad, etc. can work for you.
My Reply: Well, this is the philosophy I have for now, and I don't know if it can ever change.
Other Person's Response: When people are suicidal, how can you blame them for committing suicide? They have a suicidal perspective, which means they're in a suicidal state of mind, and the encouraging advice of others doesn't work to give them a positive perspective. Furthermore, god shouldn't blame or punish these people for having committed suicide. He should be an all-loving god who understands their suffering.
My Reply: Right. Now, those suicidal people can still act against their suicidal state by choosing to not commit suicide. But, it becomes very difficult to do so. Especially when one is very suicidal, and nothing works to give him a positive perspective, such as the perspective of seeing life as a precious, beautiful gift that should be lived to the fullest. I couldn't have such a perspective during my emotional traumas, no matter how hard I tried, and I had a suicidal perspective. But, I didn't commit suicide. Neither did I harm myself or others, even though I felt like doing so.
Other Person's Response: It's a fact that there's more good, bad, love, happiness, etc. to life than emotions, and you're just denying this fact.
My Reply: I don't even know if that's a fact or not, since it's controversial.
Other Person's Response: When someone internally role plays as a character, that's more than just a matter of seeing himself as a different character. That character is a part of him, and he becomes that character on the inside.
My Reply: Right. So, he becomes the awesome or loving power of that character on the inside.
Other Person's Response: A person can, without effort, see himself as a different character if he performs a gesture that this character would perform. That would immediately cause him to feel like he's that character.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: When your mother feels rage, does she harm anyone?
My Reply: No. But, she will act enraged.
Other Person's Response: If you lived an eternally blissful life, then that means such a life can never consist of any negative emotions, such as feelings of boredom and insanity. So, that means you wouldn't be able to make yourself feel any negative emotions, even if you tried your hardest. You'd just be blissful for all of eternity.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: Love is both external and internal. For example, love can be seen externally as acts of aid and kindness for others. But, love is also internal, since a person could say: "I don't know how to express this love within me!" Another example of internal love would be if someone said: "I love her from the bottom of my heart!"
My Reply: The internal form of love would be an emotion, and I don't think there's an external form of love, since love doesn't exist in the physical world, which means it doesn't exist on the outside. It's what's on the inside that counts, and I think love, hate, happiness, good, bad, etc. only exist on the inside.
Other Person's Response: People say it's what's on the inside that counts, and not the outside. Since the outside doesn't matter, then that means there's no love, hate, happiness, good, bad, etc. on the outside.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: I heard that our souls acquire much knowledge and personal growth over many lifetimes, and that we just don't have access to said knowledge and growth here on Earth. So, when we're born into a new life, all that knowledge and growth still exists in the afterlife. But, it's absent to us here on Earth. Our soul has 2 parts: the higher self and the lower self. The lower self is the ego, and our higher (superior/divine) self exists in the afterlife, where it possess all that knowledge and growth we've obtained over multiple lives.
My Reply: But, why would that knowledge and growth be absent to us here on Earth? Also, there are near death experiences, where the souls of people travel to the afterlife, and it's said that souls reconnect with their higher self in that moment. But, souls still act ignorant and undeveloped in the afterlife, and I'm not sure why that is. You'd think they'd become intelligent and developed, since they're supposed to reconnect with their higher self.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, what determines whether a person's lifestyle is no way to live or not is his perception, and not his actions, deeds, and contributions. So, as long as a person has a positive perception, then his way of life was positive, even if he lived as a lazy slob who contributed nothing to humanity. But, if a person had a very miserable, negative perception, and made many contributions to humanity, then that was no way to live or be an artist.
My Reply: Correct. Like I said, we need positive emotions (the positive perceptions), since they're the only positive things.
Other Person's Response: If a person had some positive and some negative emotions, then that means he had some positivity and some negativity in his life.
My Reply: Right. But, if he mostly had an absence of positive emotions, then that's mostly no way to live or be an artist.
Other Person's Response: In regards to mixed emotions, if someone felt good about something, and felt bad about another thing at the same time, then that means he had some goodness and some badness in his life.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: How is it possible to have mixed emotions?
My Reply: It would be like how we're already having mixed experiences as human beings, such as visuals with sounds, smell with taste, bodily pleasure with bodily pain, etc.
Other Person's Response: You say that some of your nightmares consist of scenes regarding this worry you're having. That shows your subconscious mind is still worried.
My Reply: Right. Once this subconscious worry has been resolved on its own (i.e., once I'm fully recovered from this emotional trauma), I don't think I'll have anymore nightmares.
Other Person's Response: Are feelings of might the only mighty things in life?
My Reply: Yes, since mighty means magnificent or awesome. Feelings of might make us mighty in our own mental universe, and they make things mighty in our mental universe as well.
Other Person's Response: Actually, there are 2 forms of mightiness and greatness. An example of the 1st form would be a great amount of money and a mighty quest (a grand quest). This form doesn't mean awesome, beautiful, or magnificent. But, the 2nd form, such as a mighty individual and a great person, would mean an awesome, beautiful, or magnificent individual/person.
My Reply: Right. The 1st form would be non-emotional, while the 2nd would be emotional.
Other Person's Response: According to your philosophy, it would be better to feel nothing about ourselves than to feel negative about ourselves.
My Reply: Yes. But, it would be best to feel positive about ourselves, since that would be coloring us in positivity.
Other Person's Response: So, when a person feels horrified by something, he's perceiving and experiencing that thing as horrific, and that's horrific, according to your philosophy?
My Reply: Yes, since feelings of horror are the only horrific things.
Other Person's Response: There are people who claim happiness and love aren't emotions. Here's a link to an article that claims happiness isn't an emotion:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/am-i-right/201204/real-happiness-isnt-feeling
I'll post the article itself below:
Real Happiness Isn't a Feeling. Happiness Is The Overall State of a Life
By Arthur Dobrin, D.S.W.
William Blake wrote, "Fun I love, but too much fun is of all things the most loathsome. Mirth is better than fun, and happiness is better than mirth."
Today happiness is viewed as a mood, a feeling. This understanding isn't wrong as much as it is shortsighted, as implied by Blake.
Moods shift and feelings change. But true happiness is the accumulation of soul-sustaining relationships. While feeling happy may differ from day to day, if the over-all direction of your life has been in cultivating good relations, then you can be happy in the deeper and more permanent sense.
Modern conceptions of happiness are misleading because the focus is in the wrong place. In pre-modern and traditional societies, happiness came about because people were tied to something outside themselves. Connections to family, fellow citizens, and clan, actions performed and attitudes developed, and duties carried out were the constituent and necessary components of happiness.
In the pre-modern world there was no "self" or "personality" as we now conceive of it, an autonomous personality making self-referential decisions. A person was part of something else, not apart from it. There was a profound recognition that to be separated from others and the community was unsettling and inhuman. Short of death, nothing was worse than being shunned or sent into exile.
Religious excommunication served the same purpose: people were removed from their religious moorings, being put outside the community and unable to partake in religious necessities. Even today the most severe punishment, short of torture or execution, is solitary confinement. Humans are born into a community and from that community they are formed. In this sense, society is prior to the individual, both temporally and psychologically.
Every human inherits a culture, with all its written and unwritten rules, and lives in a story written by predecessors. This isn't to deny a common moral heritage by suggesting that humans are nothing more than creatures of socialization and historical circumstances, but it is to say that loneliness, isolation, and alienation are antithetical to happiness.
Here's a link to an article that claims love isn't an emotion:
https://karlamclaren.com/why-love-is-not-an-emotion/
I'll post the article itself below:
Is Love an Emotion?
By Karla McLaren
Every emotion has a purpose
Emotions are essential aspects of your awareness, your intelligence, your social skills, and your ability to communicate — and each one has a specific purpose.
Every emotion has a specific function and a specific action for you to complete so that it can move on and make room for your next emotion, your next thought, and your next idea. As we explore emotions as distinct and separate entities that require unique responses, I thought you might like to get an empathic sense for emotions by looking at something that isn’t an emotion: Love.
Why love is not an emotion
When an emotion is healthy, it arises only when it’s needed, it shifts and changes in response to its environment, and it recedes willingly once it has addressed an issue. When love is healthy, it does none of these things.
If emotions repeat themselves endlessly, or appear with the same exact intensity over and over again, then something’s wrong. Yet real love is a steadfast promise that repeats itself endlessly through life and beyond death. Love does not increase or decrease in response to its environment, and it does not change with the changing winds. Love is not an emotion; it doesn’t behave the way emotions do. Real love is in a category of its own.
Those things we’ve learned to equate with love—the longing, the physical attraction, the shared hobbies, the desire, the yearning, the lust, the projections, the addictive cycles, the passions—those things move and change and fluctuate in the way emotions do, but they’re not love, because love is utterly stable and utterly unaffected by any emotion. When we love truly, we can experience all our free-flowing, mood state, and intense emotions (including fear, rage, hatred, grief, and shame) while continuing to love and honor our loved ones. Love isn’t the opposite of fear, or anger, or any other emotion. Love is much, much deeper than that.
Yet for some people, love is really just adoration, which is merely a form of bright-shadow projection (see my work on the shadow). These love-struck people find the person who best typifies their unlived shadow material—good and bad—and live in a sort of trance with them. Though I wouldn’t call that sad game love, it’s what passes for love in many relationships: You find someone who can act out your unlived material, attach yourself to them, and enter into a haunted carnival ride of moods and desires. When the projections fall, and you see your adoration target for who he or she truly is, you become disillusioned and try to reattach your projections or even seek another person to project onto.
But that’s not love, because real love doesn’t play games with other people’s souls, and it doesn’t depend upon what you can project onto your partner, or what you can get out of the relationship. Real love is a prayer and a deathless promise: an unwavering dedication to the soul of your loved one and to the soul of the world. Emotions and desires can come and go as they please, and circumstances can change in startling ways, but real love never wavers. Real love endures all emotions – and it survives trauma, betrayal, divorce, and even death.
The truth about love is this: Love is constant; only the names change. Love doesn’t just restrict itself to romantic relationships. Love is everywhere – in the hug of a child, in the concern of a friend, in the center of your family, and in the hearts of your pets. When you’re lost and you can’t seem to find love anywhere, you’re actually listening to love in human language, instead of listening to the language of love. Love is constant; it’s not an emotion.
If you want to explore love as an emotion, you’ll have to read a book by someone who wasn’t raised by animals and isn’t an empath – because I sense a visceral difference between love and emotion. I can be furious with people I love, frightened of them, and utterly disappointed in them, but the love never wavers. If my loved ones are too damaged or dissimilar for our relationship to work, I don’t stay with them (and I don’t let them keep my credit cards!), but I don’t stop loving them.
Love for me lives in a realm far deeper than the emotions, and in that deep and rich place, words don’t carry a lot of meaning. So I’ll let words about love fall into the meaningful silence all around us, and we’ll move on.
(from The Language of Emotions: What Your Feelings Are Trying to Tell You, Karla McLaren, 2010)
My Reply: Thanks for sharing. But, just to let you know, none of these articles have changed my philosophy. I think it's going to take a powerful, life-changing experience in order to change my philosophy (that is, if my philosophy can change).
Other Person's Response: You said you've had much mental turmoil and agony throughout your life, since you've been emotionally traumatized by a lot of thoughts and worries. You've learned through these struggles just how vital and necessary positive emotions are, that love and happiness can only be positive emotions, and that having an absence of positive emotions is no way to live or be an artist. I think you should've learned a better life lesson from your struggles than this (such as the life lessons those articles teach).
My Reply: Well, this is the life lesson I've learned instead, and that's just the way it is.
Other Person's Response: I realize your philosophy says that positive emotions are the only good, beautiful, and amazing things in life.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: I'm just curious, did you have a different philosophy in the past, but then converted over to this limiting, self-defeating, emotional philosophy you have now?
My Reply: No. I've always had this same philosophy. In the past, I was open-minded to the possibility that love and happiness were more than just positive emotions, and that positive emotions weren't the only good, beautiful, and amazing things in life. So, I still had the same philosophy in the past, but was open-minded to other philosophies. But, my struggles have strengthened/reinforced my philosophy, and made me less open to other philosophies.
Other Person's Response: Did you have this same philosophy, even as a very young child?
My Reply: Yes. I even had it as a baby. Of course, back then, I didn't know how to explain my philosophy, since I was just a baby and child, and neither did I have the desire to explain it. I just lived my life back then, feeling positive emotions from the things I loved to do, and those positive emotions have always been like a holy light in my life, since they were the very positivity in my life. It's later on, as an adult, that I was able to articulate my philosophy in this very document.
Other Person's Response: So, when you were a young child, you realized the importance of emotions. But, when you wasn't in the mood to do something, and refused to do it, your parents would frown upon you and tell you to do those things, even when you weren't in the mood to do them?
My Reply: Yes. But, they didn't realize that it's our emotional state (mood) that's important in life, and not our duties by themselves. I couldn't explain why back then. But, now I'm able to. So, I can share this document to my parents to give them insight regarding the importance of emotions.
Other Person's Response: You still do certain tasks as an adult, even when you're not in the mood to do them, right?
My Reply: Right. But, that's no way to do tasks. So, we need to be in the mood to do them. To be more specific, we need to be in a positive mood to do them, since we need the positive emotions.
Other Person's Response: You've had much emotional trauma during your life. It wasn't caused by abuse, since you live with kind, loving parents. It was caused by certain thoughts and worries. You say that positive emotions are like the holy light in your life, and that your ability to feel positive emotions has been shut off during your emotional traumas. So, that means these emotional traumas have shunned out the holy light in your life.
My Reply: Yes, and that was no way to live. Having an absence of positive emotions is no way to live or be an artist, even if we're giving to others and making them feel positive emotions. So, that means life's all about our own positive emotions, which means we must feel positive when giving to others and making them feel positive.
Other Person's Response: If Jake felt positive about making Jon feel positive, then that means making Jon feel positive did matter to Jake.
My Reply: Yes. But, if Jake had no ability to feel emotions, and he made Jon feel positive, then making Jon feel positive wouldn't have mattered to Jake, since nothing can matter to us in the absence of our emotions.
Other Person's Response: I'm going to quote something from one of those articles and respond to it:
Quote:In the pre-modern world there was no "self" or "personality" as we now conceive of it
There are people, such as Buddhists, who say the individual self is illusory (doesn't exist). So, you can just stop being selfish and seeking positive emotions because you, as an individual, don't even exist.
My Reply: Even if it's the case we're all one (interconnected) as some religious believers claim, I still think the individual self exists because we still have individual bodies, personalities, experiences, etc.
Other Person's Response: It's said that the self doesn't exist. But, if we should treat ourselves as though we don't exist, then we should treat others as though they don't exist, which means we shouldn't even address them, or care if they suffer.
My Reply: Right. So, if we should treat our own selves as though they don't exist, then we should treat other selves as though they don't exist.
Other Person's Response: I think that even babies are selfish, even without having been taught the notion of self because they cry when they don't get what they want. The same thing applies to wild animals.
My Reply: Right.
Other Person's Response: Some religious believers say that consciousness is one. But, we still have individual, conscious experiences. For example, one person could be in a state of grief, while another person is in a state of bliss.
My Reply: Right. So, the individual self and individual consciousness still exists.