File #6: More On My Philosophy (Part 6/26)
Other Person's Response: There are dark, gothic people out there who create wonderful works of art through their negative emotions.
My Reply: I realize this. But, their lives wouldn't have that positivity if they didn't feel positive emotions. So, these gothic people shouldn't be embracing negative emotions, since there's no reason to. They should embrace positive emotions, since they're the only things that make our lives and artistic endeavors good and beautiful. Actually, positive emotions can possess a dark, gothic quality to them that these gothic people can embrace.
As I said before, how you think is how you will feel. So, if someone has a dark, gothic thought, and it makes him feel a positive emotion, then he'll have a positive form of a dark, gothic experience in his life. That means there are 2 forms of darkness: 1.) The negative form of darkness (negative emotions), such as feelings of despair, anguish, disgust, and hate. 2.) The positive form of darkness (positive emotions), such as feeling awesome from listening to a dark, gothic, heavy metal song.
That means we can become beings of darkness, and our very being and lives still being awesome and beautiful. Again, only #2 can make that happen. I'd actually refer to #1 as being the unholy darkness, and #2 as being the divine darkness. #2 would be like a black light, since it's the power of the Divine Light taking on a dark, gothic form. Positivity can take on many forms, whether it be a childish form (such as a happy child), it can take on the form of fun and adventure, or it can take on a dark, gothic form.
You can become any one of these on the inside. Negativity can also take on many different forms as well. Negativity can even take on the form of light. Now, you'd have the opposite of divine darkness. You'd now have the evil or unholy light. I'll give an example of this one. It could be a horrific, disturbing, or creepy emotion from witnessing a scene that has sunshine, rainbows, and naturalistic landscapes. Maybe it could be the Teletubbies. So, if someone felt a negative emotion from that, then that would be an example of the unholy light.
Other Person's Response: Spiritual believers would say we create our own heaven or hell through our way of thinking. Thoughts are very powerful things, and I think they do create our heaven or hell here on Earth.
My Reply: No. It's the emotions that create our heaven or hell here on Earth. Positive thinking allows your brain to tap into divine consciousness, and to receive it.
Other Person's Response: Spiritual believers would say there's the realm of the light, and the realm of the dark. So, you're saying it's what emotion we feel that determines which of these mental realms we reside in?
My Reply: That's correct. Many people would assume that thinking positive is what puts us in the realm of the light, and thinking negative puts us in the dark. For example, if someone has nothing but thoughts of hate, disgust, etc., then that's said to be the realm of the dark for the individual. Actually, thoughts and beliefs are merely the gateway to experiencing these realms.
They, in of themselves, can't put us in these realms, since they're just concepts or ideas. If the gate is closed (that is, if your thoughts and beliefs can't make you feel emotions, due to a mental illness or some other factor), then you cannot enter these realms. You would, therefore, have forbidden access to a paradise on Earth, or a hell on Earth (providing you can't feel negative emotions either).
Other Person's Response: Spiritual believers also say we become divine beings (or beings of light) when we have positive thoughts, and we become beings of darkness when we have negative thoughts. You're saying it's instead our emotional state that determines whether we're beings of light or darkness?
My Reply: Correct. When you watch anime, you hear positive spiritual energy, and negative spiritual energy being said all the time. Negative energy corrupts and poisons, while positive energy is beauty, love, and joy.
Other Person's Response: I heard you're undecided on the existence of the afterlife. But, living an eternally blissful afterlife would be the greatest life you could live, since such a life would offer you an eternal, positive experience. Thus, you'd be getting an eternal amount of positivity.
My Reply: Yes. The more positive experiences I get out of life, the better. That's because I'm getting more out of life. But, if this Earthly existence is the only life I have, then that would be disappointing because I'd only be getting a limited amount of positive experiences in my life. Especially since positive emotions are fleeting in this Earthly existence.
Other Person's Response: If this Earthly existence is all there is, and there's no god, then seeking positive emotions wouldn't be a divine purpose for humanity, since the word "divine" implies the existence of god. Rather, it would simply be the ultimate purpose for humanity.
My Reply: Yes. Naturalistic skeptics, who are convinced this natural, Earthly existence is the only life we have, always talk about how to live the best life we can, since it's the only life we have. Well, in my opinion, I think it can only be through living the happiest life we can.
Other Person's Response: Do you think god might be dumb, and not understand that having positive experiences in life is the reason for living?
My Reply: Why would he be dumb? Isn't god all-knowing? I'll admit though, it sure seems like it, since he sends people here to Earth, where there's much suffering, and positive emotions are fleeting. Not only that, he doesn't heal the minds of those suffering. An example would be how he didn't heal me of this misery-inducing worry I've had, which lingered on for about 3 years.
So, he might be dumb, which renders him in a position where he treats positive experiences as very trivial things. That's why those who are having a lot of negative experiences in life are left to suffer, and god does nothing to heal their minds to restore their positive experiences. It really gets to me when others, including god and these heavenly beings, don't understand that I really need my positive emotions, and that they're far from trivial things.
Other Person's Response: So, do you think god, and these heavenly beings, have a plan and purpose for humanity that's dumb, absurd, pointless, and unnecessary?
My Reply: Yes. God's plan and purpose lacks compassion and understanding.
Other Person's Response: Love is a positive experience that many people seek, and spiritual believers always talk about how it's a very precious thing. If people are going to seek love, then there are many other positive experiences to seek as well, such as the experience of beauty, joy, etc.
My Reply: Yes. Love is far from a trivial experience, and that would even include all other positive experiences.
Other Person's Response: People, who have near death experiences, go on heavenly trips to the afterlife, and meet god, report that the most important life lesson they learn is love. So, I think god understands just how important positive experiences are, including love.
My Reply: Maybe he doesn't understand that all positive experiences, including love, can only be positive emotions. Perhaps that's the reason why god doesn't care that positive emotions are very fleeting in this Earthly existence.
Other Person's Response: Perhaps god is a liar, and he really doesn't care about love, or humanity.
My Reply: Or, maybe, god doesn't exist, and those heavenly trips people go on are nothing more than hallucinations. That means these people aren't learning any life lesson from a real god, or real heavenly beings.
Other Person's Response: There's a form of love that's not transient, and it's unconditional love.
My Reply: Are you sure this form of love you speak of exists? Personally, I think love can only be a fleeting emotion, and people deny this, since they don't want it to be true. They wish to believe in some greater, everlasting love, which doesn't exist.
Other Person's Response: Personally, I've felt it. So, I know that this everlasting, unconditional love exists. It's only fleeting, or impermanent, to those who deny the everlasting nature of it, which is also like a catch 22. To be honest, it's only my depression which stops me from experiencing it more than just a fleeting sensation. If my depression wasn't getting in the way, I'd be blissed out 24/7 on this love.
The ego will create anything to preserve the individual identity for its own survival, and depression is usually caused by feelings of not being loved, appreciated, heard, acknowledged, or losing that which was once loved in a physical way. There are many expressions of love...Eros, Filial, Agape... The only love that lasts forever is Agape (Divine Love).
All other forms of love come with conditioned attachment, and you're correct. Once the attachment goes, so does the love, and the forms of love we're both talking about are two different varieties. I've felt God's love, and my rejection of it is causing my depression because my ego wants to stay in control. So, I really bring all of my suffering on myself, as harsh as that may sound.
My Reply: Now, I've been known to enjoy my life and hobbies all throughout the day each day. That was before I had devastating moments in my life, which caused me to be miserable. But, the very fact I was able to continually enjoy my life and hobbies doesn't mean my enjoyment wasn't an emotion. It was still an emotion, which means something else could've taken it away from me, such as brain damage.
So, when you say you'd able to experience this greater, everlasting, unconditional love if it weren't for your depression, that love would still be an emotion you're feeling. If you had brain damage, or developed some sort of mental illness that's known to take away positive emotions, then you wouldn't be able to love. So, love is still an emotion, which means there's no such thing as a form of love that still stands, even in the face of brain damage, mental illness, etc.
Other Person's Response: What about people who are still able to feel love, despite having brain damage, or a mental illness?
My Reply: It all depends on the severity of the brain damage, mental illness, and what brain regions have been affected. If it's severe, and has greatly affected those regions of the brain responsible for feelings of love, then your ability to feel love would be completely absent and chronic. But, if it's not that severe, and hasn't affected those brain regions that much, then you may have some moments where you feel love, and moments where you don't.
Other Person's Response: In regards to depression, it's not always caused by a person's negative thinking. There's clinical depression, which is a form of depression that's a mental illness.
My Reply: Yes. Now, I've had many moments where I was depressed. But, that form of depression was caused by my negative thoughts. Those negative thoughts then made me feel hopelessness, which was a very negative experience for me.
Other Person's Response: In my experience, there's a big difference between the love of the Divine, and the emotional love felt by humans. It's a difference which is much more than just conditional love and unconditional love. The love of human beings often begins with infatuation, and infatuation has often been described as a state of insanity. The love of God, or the Divine, transforms your entire being; it's not merely emotional. You merge with it, and it absorbs you. The love of God is very intoxicating and overwhelming to the point that you lose yourself in it.
There are no individuals in God's love. There is just God's love, and that's the only thing that exists. When you feel it, you instantly know that this is the source of all joy, and all love. God's love makes the word "love" seem puny. People have to transform themselves to experience the fineness of that unconditional love. But, we don't have to transform ourselves to experience human, emotional love. Most of the time, what we call human love is but lust, and, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. But, human, emotional love comes and goes, while the love of God is permanent and steadfast. This is my experience.
My Reply: You say we must feel the Divine love to experience it, and that it's a feeling unlike the human, emotional love. You say the Divine love isn't transient. But, feelings are already transient things. For example, a feeling of hunger, thirst, pain, pleasure, etc. isn't everlasting. But, you're saying the Divine love is a feeling unlike all those other feelings, since it's an everlasting feeling that can't be taken away by brain damage, mental illnesses, etc.?
Other Person's Response: I also said that we have to first go through a transformation process to feel divine love. But, we don't have to go through a transformation process to feel emotional love. We're here for self-development, and the process of spiritual development brings us closer to God's love.
My Reply: Well, even if I did acquire this Divine love, in order to love someone, I'd need to have a loving thought to make me feel love. But, thoughts and feelings can't be the same thing, and the Divine love is a feeling. So, a loving thought still has to make me feel love in order for me to love someone. That means the loving thought must send a signal to some other region of my brain to make me feel love. But, like I said, there are things that can prevent thoughts from sending the signal, such as brain damage, mental illnesses, etc.
That would just leave me with a loving thought, without a loving feeling. So, the way I see it, it's the same situation as before. This Divine love would have to be fleeting, just like the human, emotional love. Unless, somehow, there's a way the Divine love can be everlasting, even in the face of brain damage, mental illness, etc. But, I just don't understand how it can be everlasting, which means I don't understand how that would work. How would that work scientifically?
Other Person's Response: Why don't you first start by loving yourself before you get into all of these so-called loving thoughts for others? If you don't have love in your own heart, then how are you going to give love to others? The love that we have in our thoughts is conditional love. But, the love of God has nothing to do with our thoughts. If you have love in your heart, then you can love others without saying a word, or having a thought. First, learn how to truly love yourself, and be conscious of the presence of love in your own heart.
My Reply: Well, like I said, I don't know if this form of love even exists. The only love I've ever had was emotional.
Other Person's Response: I've felt Divine love before, and it's more than just a fleeting emotion, which is unlike the notion that many other people are convinced of, which would be that love is just an emotion, created by the brain. I've, at least, heard others say love isn't something in the heart, but is something the brain creates. I don't fully believe this is the case because the heart was the first thing to develop in the body before the brain. The brain was one of the last things, if I'm remembering that correctly.
It's also important for one to love themselves, and work on that, even if it may feel impossible to some. Like, for people who have depression, it isn't an impossible task. But, they may feel numb about things that would normally cause them to feel love. But, they can love, if they allow it, and that's a good mindset for them. This mindset will create a space that will allow them to let go of the things, thoughts, and beliefs that may cause them to feel numb to where they think they can only feel love for a fleeting moment.
I believe love is something that doesn't ever leave one. But, if we have the belief that love is fleeting, its power fades off into the background. So, I believe one's belief and perspective of love also has its effects on how they see love, experience love, how it affects them, and manifests for them. I believe love (and by love, I mean divine/unconditional love) to be one of the biggest lessons because you can learn so many things from it.
My Reply: But, the heart doesn't experience love, joy, hate, sorrow, etc. It's just an organ. The brain is where we have all our experiences, whether they be sight, smell, hearing, taste, emotions, etc.
Other Person's Response:
But, the heart doesn't experience love, joy, hate, sorrow, etc. It's just an organ. The brain is where we have all our experiences, whether they be sight, smell, hearing, taste, emotions, etc.
If you've never felt Divine Love, then it's something nobody would ever be able to explain to you "scientifically." Want to know something? It's our love for the "scientific" which keeps us in our head-space, and causes all of that misery and depression. I speak from first hand experience. To learn more about the functions of the heart beyond it being a "physical organ that pumps blood," I refer you to the works of Gregg Braden. You see, the experience of Divine Love through the heart, which others refer to as Grace, is a very deeply profound, spiritual experience, which is both a feeling and, yet, much more than just a feeling.
Anyway, as long as you concentrate on just the physicality, and on the material and scientific, you'll NEVER experience this love. NEVER! The thing is, too many people are attached to their intellect, theories, philosophies, to science and proof, to Duality, to black and white mindsets, etc. I know my friend...I KNOW, and do you know how I know? Because I'm one of them myself! Has this really done anything for me in my spiritual quest to walk with God? No! Not in the slightest. In fact, it has had the opposite effect of turning my attention and awareness away from God, causing suffering and misery. Fortunately, I know what it is I'm missing. Unfortunately, you do not, which may actually be fortunate because if you did, your depression would increase a hundredfold.
My Reply: Since people are so attached to their views, which prevents them from feeling Divine love, and since Divine love is so important, then why doesn't god, or the heavenly beings, enlighten these people, so they can obtain Divine love? Why do they allow humanity to remain unenlightened? They have to power to instantly bestow divine knowledge upon humanity, and they allow humanity to remain ignorant.
Other Person's Response:
Unfortunately, you do not, which may actually be fortunate because if you did, your depression would increase a hundredfold.
Would this actually make you feel depressed if you knew what you were missing?
My Reply: No. It's only those negative thoughts and worries I had that caused me misery, and devastated me.
Other Person's Response: People have already been trying to enlighten you by presenting to you information on Divine love.
My Reply: Just presenting to me information isn't enough to convince me Divine love exists. So, I could read all the information I want to read about it, and I still wouldn't be convinced. I'm undecided on controversial/debatable topics anyway, since people just argue back and forth all day long, and it gets nowhere. Even the existence of Divine love is controversial. If me being enlightened to the existence of Divine love is necessary for me to obtain it, then why doesn't god, or these heavenly beings, just enlighten me?
Also, there are people who are attached to a scientific materialistic view, and attached to others views, and that's something they can't help. It's not like they can just choose to let go of said attachment. So, it would be best for god, and these heavenly beings, to enlighten these people as well. Otherwise, they'd just be stuck, and would never obtain Divine love. I realize some scientific materialists convert over to spirituality, and claim they've obtained Divine love. But, not too many do.
Other Person's Response: What would it take to convince you then? What if I were to tell you that the fact you need "convincing" prevents you from just accepting? What if I were to tell you that any notion of "blind faith" is just a contrivance to keep skeptics stuck where they are? However, you've already made up your mind, due to the free will God has given you. He can't force you to receive His Grace. He probably realizes that you're just not ready yet. Maybe in the next lifetime you'll be ready. Peace and good luck on your journey.
My Reply: If someone were to come up with any given claim, such as that vaccines are harmful, that there's an afterlife, etc., such claims obviously can't be accepted at face value because you might as well be convinced of anything at face value. Also, I have read through the debates regarding certain topics, and there's no way I can discover the truth in regards to these topics, since it's just an argument that goes back and forth all day long.
Other Person's Response: You didn't answer my question. What would it take to convince you? Or, don't you want to be convinced? You'd have to know what Divine Love is to know what it's not.
My Reply: The only thing that would convince me would be experiencing this Divine love for myself, and I've never experienced it.
Other Person's Response: I can help you with that. But, first, I have a few questions. Why do you want to experience Divine Love? Is it just to satisfy your intellectual curiosity? Or, is there something deep inside yourself that you feel is missing/lacking? Would you be willing to suspend your beliefs, and just let go of your concepts for about two seconds? You can have them all back after the fact, if you still want them.
Or, are you scared? What's your concept of God/Divine? How does the notion of this present itself to you? You don't have to become a Christian, adopt any religion or methodology, and you don't even have to believe anything I say. In fact, I can experience Divine Love at the drop of a hat IF I just forgo my stubborn will and attachment to my anal, retentive, control issues for just a few seconds. It could work for you, too.
My Reply: It's out of curiosity, as well as the desire to have everlasting positive experiences in my life, and no longer have to rely on my fleeting, positive emotions as a sole source of positive experiences. Also, I don't believe that positive emotions are the only way to have those experiences. So, I've already suspended that belief.
As I said before, I'm undecided when it comes to controversial topics, and the idea that positive emotions are the only way to have those experiences is controversial, which means I'm undecided on that. But, I suspect positive emotions could be the only way to have those experiences. I'm not exactly sure though. Lastly, my view of divine would be the positive emotions, since they give us positive experiences, such as love, joy, etc.
Other Person's Response: Alright, so I see you wish to obtain Divine Love. Here's the exercise you need to perform to obtain it. Where I'm going with this, hear me out. In a moment of quiet, reflective solitude, when you're not too preoccupied with your own thoughts, just put all your questions and concerns to the universe. Don't expect any outcome, and don't wait for a reply. Just look within, let go of all expectations, all critical thought or judgments, and just allow yourself to be, just as you are, sitting there, in that moment.
Ask God to show you His Divine Love. But, don't process what comes through mentally. Allow it to bypass your scientific mind. Don't fight it. Surrender. That is the key word here...surrender. You may notice a slight feeling deep within. Don't rationalize it away, and try not to get caught up in the sensation. Allow yourself to flow with it, and go with it. The sensation will intensify. But, keep calm and focused on your intent (and your breath).
If you feel a pressure in your chest, or even the urge to cry, let it go. Let it out. It may take a few times. But, don't get impatient or disheartened. Let your body do whatever it needs to do. Let those emotions surface, and just observe them. After a while, you won't be able to hold it back anymore. You'll feel totally empty, raw, and ready. Then, you'll experience the Divine Love. You'll be so filled up, you won't know what to do with yourself. What you think of as "you" won't be there anymore anyway. Good luck with it.
My Reply: I've tried it, and it doesn't work for me. Perhaps I have to keep on trying. Throughout this packet, I still go by the assumption that the only real positive experiences, including love, are the positive emotions.
Other Person's Response: Since this exercise isn't working for you, then why didn't god just give you Divine Love before your soul arrived here on Earth? That way, you would've had it upon your very birth into this world.
My Reply: Exactly. The same thing applies to other people who are skeptical about the existence of divine love, or unaware of its existence. Why didn't god, or these heavenly beings, just grant them divine love?
Other Person's Response: I don't believe in god, the afterlife, or the paranormal. So, even if you kept on doing that exercise, and managed to obtain this Divine Love, it might just be some everlasting, more profound love you obtained that has nothing to do with god.
My Reply: You could be right.
Other Person's Response: Divine Love is real. Once your heart really opens, you can't turn love off. Even if it would make life easier. In regards to depression, and not feeling love, I was deeply depressed and suicidal for several years. But, I still loved very deeply, which is why I stayed for the sake of others.
It sounds like you have some wound that has made you close your heart in fear. Fear can masquerade as anger, or just disinterest or intellectual belittling of love. It is a great protection mechanism of the ego when one is suffering. But, it ends up cutting the person off from what humans thrive on: connection/intimacy/unity.
Often, if the wound is enough, the heart closes up, and it takes healing the wound to open it again, or finding someone that you love enough that it cracks you open. But, still, you're left working on the wound, or you'll close your heart again.
I'd say 99% of the world's population exists in this sate of the wounded heart. So, love seems transient and fleeting. Truth is, we all need to heal, and, instead, we keep injuring each other and reinforcing each others wounds. The open heart is the natural state, and the wound needs to heal.
My Reply: I don't have any mental wounds that need to be healed. I grew up with a loving mother, have never been abused, and have always been happy. But, for whatever reason, I've never experienced Divine Love. As of now, I'm not happy, since I've had a devastating worry. But, I'm almost fully recovered from it. When I'm all better and happy again, I'll try performing that exercise again to see if I can obtain Divine Love.
Other Person's Response: I believe in Divine Love, as well as all other positive experiences that are divine. All the positive experiences you currently have are the human, emotional ones, since they're all based upon fleeting, positive emotions. But, they're not the everlasting, divine ones.
My Reply: It would be wonderful if I could have these everlasting, divine, positive experiences that are not only more profound and intense than my emotional ones, but are everlasting. But, I've yet to be convinced they actually exist. Also, even if I did obtain them, it's still possible for me to have them mixed in with the emotional ones. They can even be mixed in with negative emotions, which would give me some degree of positive experience, and some degree of negative experience.
Other Person's Response: Maybe you just need to develop as an individual to obtain Divine Love, as well as all other Divine, positive experiences.
My Reply: I'm not sure.
Other Person's Response: If all your miserable struggles were to help you develop as a person, so you could obtain these divine, positive experiences, then I think those struggles were unnecessary, given that there are happy, healthy alternatives to personal growth, learning, and development.
My Reply: Yes. My miserable struggles have never resulted in me obtaining these divine, positive experiences anyway.
Other Person's Response: One person mentioned earlier that there are factors that can prevent you from obtaining Divine Love, as well as all other Divine, positive experiences, such as being too narrow-minded, closed-minded, focusing too much on materialistic science, etc.
My Reply: I can only do my best to obtain them, and I can't promise I'll ever obtain them. That is, providing they even exist. The same idea applies to other people. They can only do their best to improve themselves, and their life's experience. If there are any factors preventing them from obtaining these Divine experiences, then that's just the way it is. They did their best, and that's all they can do.
Other Person's Response: Aren't there scientific materialists out there who claim they've acquired a form of love that's everlasting, and more profound than their emotional love? If so, then they've obtained Divine Love, which means their fixation on materialistic science didn't prevent them from obtaining it.
My Reply: I'm not sure if there are such people.
Other Person's Response: I heard one person say earlier that Divine Love is a form of love that has nothing to do with our thoughts. So, if a person claimed he's able to experience everlasting love with no need for his emotions, and said experience of love was triggered by his loving thoughts, then it wouldn't have been Divine Love.
My Reply: That's right.
Other Person's Response: If you ever do obtain Divine Love, and all other Divine, positive experiences, I think you'll look back, and realize your positive emotions never were the experience of love, or any other positive experience.
My Reply: If you were to have a thought that something is beautiful, and that thought makes you feel beauty, then that's still a beautiful experience. So, that's still a positive experience. That's why I think positive emotions are still positive experiences, and experiences of love. It's just that Divine Love, and the Divine, positive experiences, would be more profound experiences, and they'd be everlasting.
Other Person's Response: If god, the paranormal, and the afterlife do exist, then I wouldn't think that all positive experiences, including love, can only be emotional. There must be an everlasting, divine form of these experiences.
My Reply: Perhaps you're right. But, then again, positive emotions might still be the only way to have positive experiences.
Other Person's Response: Personally, I think it would suck having the Divine, positive experiences because it was mentioned earlier that these experiences have nothing to do with our way of thinking (which is conditional). That means a person can't give himself whatever type of Divine, positive experience he wants through his way of thinking.
My Reply: But, at least they're more profound positive experiences that are everlasting.
Other Person's Response: When it comes to our positive feelings, we're the ones who decide what type of positive feeling we wish to give ourselves through our way of thinking. If we, for example, wish to feel beauty in regards to nature, then we'd have the thought that nature is beautiful. But, when it comes to the divine, positive feelings/experiences, these ones are different because it's instead up to god what positive feeling he gives us.
But, god is perfect, which means he knows what positive feelings we're better off feeling. So, if you lost your ability to experience positive feelings, and you needed the divine, positive feelings, then god might not make you feel the drive/motivation to pursue your composing. He might instead make you feel a different positive feeling, since he knows that's what's best for you.
My Reply: Yes.
Other Person's Response: If the most profound feeling of Divine Love is much more profound than the most profound feeling of emotional love, then that says even the most profound, loving thought wouldn't give you the most profound feeling of love. It can only be God's love which can be the most profound feeling of love.
My Reply: Yes. Also, I wonder if there's more profound negative experiences than the ones that come about through our negative emotions. For example, I wonder if the opposite of Divine Love exists, which would be Unholy Hate. This form of hate isn't emotional, is more profound than the emotional form of hate, and is everlasting.
Other Person's Response: If people claim there's an everlasting form of love and hate that's more profound than the emotional form of love and hate, then these people might as well claim there's a form of sexual arousal that's everlasting, and more profound than the emotional version. I think this is unrealistic, and untrue.
My Reply: Perhaps you're right. These people also might as well say there's a form of panic that's everlasting, and more profound than the emotional form of panic. I just don't think that's true. Feelings of panic, sexual arousal, love, joy, hate, etc. have always been known to be fleeting things.
Other Person's Response: It's typical how god gets dragged into the picture when people can't handle their own life, and then blame him. Life is about taking responsibility for your own life. Not about blaming an external circumstance, person, or god. Love is difficult to experience if your vibration is low. Love is a high vibration. Most people are on a low vibration. So, there's a mismatch. Disillusioned, angry, bitter, disappointed, etc. people are on a very low vibration. So, they are very far away from love. You can't demand to feel love because, as long as your vibration is that low, you won't be able to feel it.
You can't demand an external force, person, or situation to make you feel love, since YOU have to do the work to get to a higher vibration. If god were to come down to your low level, he'd have to lower his vibration as well, which means he wouldn't/couldn't be god anymore. It's not the idea we descend further in misery. It's the idea we ascend to a higher vibration. The higher you get, the more love you'll experience. What it means is you have to take responsibility for your life, stop blaming and victimizing, and work on issues. If you're not feeling love, you do have issues. Everyone has issues.
It's just that some aren't bothered by them because they're too positive by nature, or they work on their ****. The same story goes for illnesses. All illnesses are manifested by the person himself, which has been scientifically proven, and it has to do with the Law of Attraction, which has also been scientifically proven. Watch Dr. Bruce Lipton. It, again, has to do with vibration/energy being low. In the end, this manifests in physical illness, and then the weakest part is affected.
As good as all cures are obtained by the power of the mind, by believing something will work, whether it's surgery, medication, or something else, we can cure ourselves. But, that, again, means we have to take responsibility for our lives, and our ailments. Again, watch Bruce Lipton. He explains it beautifully. Or, read his book Biology of Belief. There's no such thing as hereditary diseases either. We've been misinformed. Science is beginning to find out how, Bruce Lipton, a cell biologist, found out decades ago. It's all about energy. So is love, and, if your vibration is low, for whatever reason, you can't feel it.
My Reply: Well, you must remember I'm leaning towards the possibility that love can only be an emotion, and emotions are fleeting things that can be taken away from us. Also, I'm not even sure your claims are true or not in regards to higher, spiritual vibrations existing, and our minds having the ability to heal ourselves. I could read all the material I want to on these topics. But, I'll still remain undecided. I realize I have my own religion, which makes certain mystical claims.
But, I have to remain undecided on said claims. Lastly, I've had many miserable struggles, which I think was pointless suffering that wasted my life away. So, if god, or these heavenly beings, couldn't heal my mind of such suffering, since they'd have to lower their vibrations, which would no longer make them divine entities, then sending me to Earth was a mistake, since Earth is a place where humans are at a low vibration. That means I was allowed to go through all that suffering.
Not only that, but Earth isn't the place to be anyway, since positive emotions are fleeting things. When our souls are in the heavenly realm, where we meet god, and these heavenly beings, we're at a higher vibration, and I think heaven is where we should be anyway. Our souls can enter heaven through drug trips, or when our physical bodies die. But, like I said, I'm undecided on the existence of the soul and afterlife, and whether heavenly and hellish trips people go on are hallucinations or not.
Other Person's Response:
Everyone has issues. It's just that some aren't bothered by them because they're too positive by nature, or they work on their ****.
If god wants us to suffer because he wants us to work on our issues, then what about all those suffering animals that are being abused? They can't work on their issues, and they have no choice but to suffer.
My Reply: Right. Many people say that we shouldn't have a victim mentality (i.e. that we shouldn't have the mindset of being a victim of our circumstances). But, those suffering animals really are a victim of their circumstances.
Other Person's Response: God, and these heavenly beings, are all-knowing and all-powerful. So, I'm quite sure they'd find a way to heal people of their suffering. Yet, they still allow people to suffer. Isn't it said that god already intervenes in the human world? If so, then why doesn't he also heal those in need of suffering?
My Reply: You're right. So, why have they allowed me to suffer (if they even exist)? Also, if our minds do have the ability to heal ourselves, then many people are unaware of this, which means people are allowed to suffer. So, it would've been best if god just healed these people himself. Or, he could've, at least, informed people about the healing ability their minds have, and told them how to utilize the healing power of their minds.
I was ignorant of the mind's healing ability during my miserable struggles, and it would've been wonderful if my mind could've instantly healed itself of all those miserable struggles I've had (especially my recent one, which took the longest to recover from). But, even if I was aware of the mind's healing ability, and I did perform the steps necessary to utilize the healing power of my mind, it might not have worked for me anyway. Like I said, I'm not even sure this healing ability exists in the first place.
Other Person's Response: According to spiritual believers, the mind can heal the body of all illnesses, including aging, and that you just need to have the feeling, and belief, that any illness you have will be healed by your mind, and your mind will heal it. Many skeptics just refuse to accept this idea.
My Reply: I don't know about this. Wouldn't spiritual believers, who believe in this, be immortal? Clearly, they're not immortal, since they grew old, and died like everyone else. They also died from diseases. So, it might really be the case that the skeptics are right. If the skeptics are right, then perhaps they're right about other things, such as that there's no afterlife, we're biological machines with no free will, etc.
Also, there's a popular spiritual believer named "Sadhguru," and another one named "Deepak Chopra." They're convinced of this idea that the mind can heal the body. But, if their minds can heal their bodies of all illnesses, including aging, then why do they look old? If they have illnesses, then why do they have them?
Other Person's Response: I heard that not only does the mind have the ability to heal our bodies, but it can destroy our bodies. Aging is a destructive process of the body, and the only reason why people die from aging is because they believe their bodies age. That belief causes them to age and die.
My Reply: Doesn't it require the person to be spiritually developed (mature) in order for such power of his mind to take effect? If so, then a spiritually undeveloped person, who has a low vibration, wouldn't be able to heal his body through the power of his mind. Likewise, he couldn't destroy his body either through the power of his mind. But, this would imply spiritually undeveloped people never age.
Other Person's Response: If people could never age by believing they won't age, then people, who believe in this power of the mind nonsense, would always look young.
My Reply: You're right.
Other Person's Response: I'll quote something you said earlier, and respond to it:
There are people who struggle with ongoing, clinical depression, which renders them without the ability to love, and these people must live their lives like this. Some depressed people are resistant to treatment. I realize that depressed people do feel positive emotions, including love, on certain occasions. But, it's not much. If the most important thing here on Earth is to love one another, then why is god allowing people to struggle with mental illnesses that take away their ability to love?
Why isn't he using his divine healing powers to make sure that feelings of love remain intact, and can never be taken away? If love is so important to him, then it makes no sense why he isn't doing this. Perhaps god is a liar, and he really doesn't care about love, or all the suffering humanity goes through. Or, maybe, god doesn't exist, and these heavenly trips people go on are nothing more than hallucinations. This would mean these people aren't learning any life lessons from a real god, or real heavenly beings.
The majority of spiritual believers would probably come up with the lame old answer that it's all about karma, and life lessons regarding depression. But, truth be told. Either God isn't real, or he's a ruthless, psychopathic, sadist who takes great delight in the suffering of depressed people who are totally isolated, and disconnected from the world. Ordering such people to love is like telling a blind person to see. Yet, he sits there on his throne, doing what exactly? Watching everything going on from a crystal ball, while crying crocodile tears?
My Reply: I see what you mean.