The meaning of getting to Mars? Your view?

If Elon succeeds in getting us to Mars he will earn a place in the History books and not just a modest position...it doesn't matter that after getting there, there isn't much to do for a long while till automation and AI catches up to make mining on the Solar system viable. Terraforming Mars, for now, is just a brand...I don't mind.

I understand all that, and thats a major reason why I feel we can develop controls and designs for livability hermetically sealed FROM the Mars environment, and thats doable through our present level of technology..

Sublimation of everything (especially water )is only a problem for large areas and if we make Mars a "colony". Such a site condition may take us a few millennia , meantime we will be living in as safe an envi ronment as we are able to construct nd maintain, with an availability of critical resources either in storage, recycling reservoirs, or manufacture.

Normal max availability of something like ground water, is a lit less than 1500 feet depth on earth. Beneath that e have a problem with thermal gradients and salt. Id suspect that, due to the fact that weve measured the TG of Mars at about 6 degrees C per Kilometer, w may be abl to acquire available Ground water at greater depths, but we will need to b able to safely "reservoir it" so it to doesnt go through some unwanted phase chnges and sublimate right off the planet.

I dont see anything right now that would give us "no go" decisions except for what do we do about long term radiation protection.

Alpha and beta, not a real problem , gamma, not so much. I dont see any evidence of galena in the sulfur pockets they've speck'ed from orbit. So we may be spending several decades just "Tunneling around and making sure we can pep a way to access lower "suburban levels" (There may be lead there but I havent seen any data.) Itd be easy to make lead screening from galena because we do know of the existence of peroxide salts on Mars and reaction of Lead Sulfide with proxide is an old miners trick)

The word " suburbs" is gonna have an entirely new meaning wrt Mars human exploration.

Yeah, them urbs would really be sub. Humans living on Mars would not be a solution to overpopulation here--but any nation which could boost a colonial ship of this planet would be sending people there anyway. My view is that we could make the surface habitable in a few centuries, and a cheap, superthin metal foil could make space suits safe from gamma radiation.



This is NASA's new re-entry suit. This could be modified for use on Mars. Instead of a cooling system, you'd just need a modest heating system. These suits have been modified for the use of touch-screens, too. Of course, people born on Mars could not safely return to Earth, so you'd need to keep that in mind. Even people born on Earth would be risking their lives to return to Earth if they've spent the time needed to get to Mars and get back home in microgravity, or even Martian gravity. That's one of the things that we've learned from the ISS. Prolonged exposure to microgravity weakens the heart muscle and reduces bone mass.

I guess Ive jumped the gun and have passed MArs in my mind when I should be thinking what rad protection would look like on the planet itself.

1limit all gamma exposures like on earth
2 make most of our protection the space between the surface and the habitable zone (Water is better than soil but we may need it -)
3. high gamma rad zones will need really thick shielding and so far the only portable one is lead,or tantalum, iridium., The rest, including the densest, osmium or gold have too high values and stuff like plutonium i just stupid. .

JPL commented and has begun some research on rad protection as we leave the Solar system and have to pass thru the van Allen belt.
Ive heard that were talking 1 to 1.3 METERS of Pb. So , obviously all exo planet hopping ships would have to be built and flown from orbit

concept of being an ex-terran is, of course the mot reasonable until we realize that weve become like a beehive with special physiologies.

Terran trnsporters nd techs

ex-terrans who "carry" our divesrity through space ans turn it over to

exo-planetaries, who are genetically CRSPR'd up to be able to live on places where gravity isa resident force for all things residing at very low velocities in a new world.

I hope there is no sort of virus or bacteria surviving on Mars.

It does more than that Set as I am sure you are aware off. It affects the heart, blood circulation, it affects the eyes and may lead to an early death.
We really do need a ship with a rotating habitat area for artificial gravity.

Here, for the layman, some talk on O'Neil cylinders:

That'd be wonderful, rather. It'd be the first extra terrestrial life we're able to find.

Ah, and there is the real 'proto reason' why we care about getting there.
'We' would be able to say ”See! We told you life can emerge anywhere there is rocks, water and a source of energy!” The fascination with this idea verges on the 'religious'.

I’m still taking bets on the ‘That’s Bullshit' side if anyone wants in.

science is a discipline, undertaken with passion

art is a passion undertaken with discipline

religion is just a way to rob the faithful of their 401's, in exchange for non-guaranteeable tickets to "Disneyland" .

Money talks, bullshit walks.

Wha da ya say, $100 bucks?

Oh don't you worry. You will still be able to say: "God created life on Mars too".

wheres a bet here? As I said before, as a species I believe we are capable of walking and chewing gum.

Hell, I can see a whole pile of reasons to go off the planet. Its not an either/ or.(Maybe you think so but I believe youre wr wr wr ......)

Challenge accepted. Logic would say that an intelligent designer would not waste time on a dead end planet.

Same offer as with farmer. One Benjamin says no definitive proof of life on Mars.

It sounds like we might be talking different languages, but everyone knows what we’re say'n.

All planets will pass, including earth. So Mars is not more of a "dead end" than the earth.

Anyway, I doubt there's any life on Mars. We won't be that lucky.

Not different languages, totally different worldviews.

Certainly radiation exposure will be a crucial factor on a voyage lasting seven, eight or more months. If there is a stellar "storm" (what we now call sunspot activity), the passengers will need reliable shielding. To my mind, it hardly makes sense to send anyone there unless we were to send dozens or even hundreds. To send a few just to say we did it would be a case of the pissing contest you mentioned earlier. If we send anyone, we should be sending at least semi-permanent if not permanent colonists. That would also mean sending agricultural equipment for growing their food--with seed stock and perhaps even with live stock such as poultry and perhaps small mammals such as pot-bellied pigs. They would need to be shielded, too, and shielded well enough to protect their progenitive organs--we would want them to reproduce.

This wold be technology that we would need to have perfected if humanity is ever to leave this star system. Mars also presents problems which will have to be overcome, and might also have future value. They talk about dust storms on Mars, but that is a case of using a term a layman can understand. The so-called dust storms on Mars are actually composed of fines--particles of micron size. Entry locks for habitats and "farms" would need to be three stage or even four stage. EB has a video on Curiosity rover in the rovers on Mars thread and it shows how the rover is now covered in red-brown "dust." Obviously, the fines have not interfered with the operation of the vehicle, but it doesn't have to breathe or to reproduce. This is not some Elon Musk project with pie in the sky goals, but is, rather, a serious undertaking which very likely will not be accomplished in my lifetime, and probably not even in Musk's lifetime. Lots of work to do, and careful preparations to be considered.

We fully agree. If I recall correctly one of the Apollo missions almost got hit by one Solar storm. The Sun cycle takes again if I remember correctly 11 years to complete between max and min spot activity and the magnetic field flipping at the poles, with more or less probability of getting a strong storm coming. We got a strong one back in the telegraph days the Aurora could be seen way back down. On Mars I would dig underground or look for caves and use for the time being a fission nuclear reactor.
Yes, dust on Mars is nasty thin and gets everywhere. On the Moon is less of a problem because there is no atmo nor wind. I know the wind on Mars tho super fast is barely noticeable because of the pressure being so much lower. But it's enough for that thin dust to potentially screw over hardware.