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Italy Judge orders CIA arrests

 
 
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 09:22 am
Quote:
Italy Judge Orders Arrest of 13 CIA Agents

Friday June 24, 2005 2:31 PM


By AIDAN LEWIS

Associated Press Writer

ROME (AP) - An Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 CIA agents for allegedly helping deport an imam to Egypt as part of U.S. anti-terrorism efforts, an Italian official familiar with the investigation said Friday.

The agents are suspected in the seizure of an Egyptian-born imam identified as Abu Omar on the streets of Milan in February 2003, according to the official, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

The U.S. Embassy in Rome declined to comment.

Prosecutors believe the agents seized Omar as part of the CIA's ``extraordinary rendition'' program, in which terror suspects are transferred to third countries without court approval, according to reports Friday in newspapers Corriere della Sera and Il Giorno.

Investigators traced the agents through check-in details at Milan hotels and their use of Italian cell phones during the operation, the reports said. All the agents are American and include three women, Il Giorno said.

The reports said another six agents were being investigated for helping prepare the operation.

They said police also received an eyewitness account from an Egyptian woman who heard Omar calling for help and saw him being bundled into a white van as he walked from his house to a mosque.

The report said Omar was taken to Aviano, a joint U.S.-Italian base north of Venice, and was flown from there to another U.S. air base in Ramstein, Germany, before being taken in a second jet to Cairo.

A judge also has issued a separate arrest warrant for Omar, news agencies ANSA and Apcom said. In that warrant, Judge Guido Salvini claimed the seizure of Omar represented a violation of Italian sovereignty, Apcom reported.

Earlier this month, Milan prosecutor Armando Spataro told The Associated Press that the prosecution was treating the disappearance of Omar as an abduction.

Spataro declined to say who was suspected for the alleged abduction, but he said Omar's disappearance damaged an ongoing operation by Italian authorities. He said he visited the air base in February.

Omar was believed to have fought with jihadists in Afghanistan and Bosnia, and prosecutors were seeking evidence against him before his disappearance, according to a report last year in La Repubblica newspaper, which cited intelligence officials.

Italian papers have reported that Omar, 42, called his wife and friends in Milan after his release last year, recounting he had been seized by Italian and American agents and taken to a secret prison in Egypt, where he was tortured with electric shocks.

Italian officials believe he now is living in Egypt, although Italian newspaper accounts suggested he was returned to custody shortly after his release.


Whew

Cycloptichorn
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thethinkfactory
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 10:39 am
Oh the fit going to hit the shan over this one.

I am totally in the dark as to how we will respond (U.S.)

TTF
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 10:45 am
<reading along>
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 10:52 am
What's the problem?

We can pluck whoever we want from any where we want, right?

We're the United States of F'in America. What's it to ya?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 10:54 am
Sure looks that way, doesn't it? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2005 06:43 pm
Hmmm - well, French agents blew up a ship, and murdered a Greenpeace activist in so doing in New Zealand.

They were arrested and tried - but when France pled to be able to have them serve their sentences there, they released them almost immediately.

France was a big enough power to blow New Zealand off the map - as the US could blow Italy - but if the operatives HAVE broken Italian law, I don't see how, short of invading or pretty major bullying, the US can do a lot.

I am sure they will apply a lot of pressure - but I suspect they may also be mindful of world opinion?

Dunno - thirteen of them! And a hugely significant precedent to allow it to go ahead. AND Italian justice, as far as I know, is kinda crazy and long drawn out by Anglo standards.

Blimey.

Man - I would SO love to see the details of the "extraordinary torture" program blown open and shown the light of day, though. As a secondary gain, it has the potential to also put great pressure to bear on the appalling torture practices of the regimes to which the US is outsourcing its torture. A win/win as I see it - usually, the west dosn't seem to care a lot about the torment to which those regimes put people they do not like - though I gather - rather ironically - that the new, shiny, "democracy is the great hope against terrorism" US IS putting more pressure on these semi-client states to behave better - via access to money and such, as I recall. A good thing, even if oddly ironic in the circumstances.
0 Replies
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 01:08 pm
Laughing Those agents must be found before they can be arrested.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 02:21 pm
I found this story about the agents interesting as well

WashingtonPost June 26th

Quote:
For 19 American intelligence operatives assigned to apprehend a radical Islamic preacher in Milan two years ago, the mission was equal parts James Bond and taxpayer-financed Italian holiday, according to an Italian investigation of the man's disappearance.

The Americans stayed at some of the finest hotels in Milan, sometimes for as long as six weeks, ringing up tabs of as much as $500 a day on Diners Club accounts created to match their recently forged identities, according to Italian court documents and other records. Then, after abducting their target and flying him to Cairo under the noses of Italian police, some of them rounded out their European trip with long weekends in Venice and Florence before leaving the country, the records show.

Milan prosecutors and police spent the last two years documenting Americans' role in the Feb. 17, 2003 disappearance of Hussan Mustafa Omar Nasr, 42, an Egyptian cleric. On Thursday, a Milan judge ruled that there was enough evidence to warrant the arrest of 13 suspected CIA operatives on kidnapping charges.

The Americans' whereabouts are unknown, and Italian authorities acknowledged that the odds were slim that they would ever be taken into custody. The CIA has declined to comment.

While most of the operatives apparently used false identities, they left a long trail of paper and electronic records that enabled Italian investigators to retrace their movements in detail. Posing as tourists and business travelers, the Americans often stayed in the same five-star hotels, rarely paid in cash, gave their frequent traveler account numbers to desk clerks and made dozens of calls from unsecure phones in their rooms.

During January 2003, they were regular patrons at the Hotel Principe di Savoia in Milan, which bills itself as "one of the world's most luxuriously appointed hotels" and features a marble- lined spa and minibar Cokes that cost about $10. Seven of the Americans stayed at the 80-year-old hotel for periods ranging from three days to three weeks at nightly rates of about $450, racking up total expenses of more than $42,000 there.

The first operative came to Milan on Dec. 7, 2002 and stayed for 11 days at the Milan Westin Palace, according to the court documents. The others started arriving in early January and by Feb. 1 almost all of them were in place. They eschewed safe houses and private homes, bunking instead at places such as the Milan Hilton ($340 a night) and the Star Hotel Rosa ($325 a night).

In early February, most of the operatives gathered for a rendezvous in La Spezia, an Italian seaside resort town on the Ligurian coast, almost a three-hour drive from Milan. Hotel records show that they checked into two hotels in La Spezia but stayed for only a few hours before departing. Some of them then drove to Florence for an overnight trip, but the rest returned to Milan.

According to Milan investigators, there were two distinct groups. One crew of six was in charge of planning and surveillance, checking out possible escape routes and procuring cell phones. Each of those people left the country about a week before Nasr was reported missing.

The other group -- which included almost all of those whose arrests are now being sought -- was in charge of the kidnapping operation itself, according to court documents.

On Feb. 17, shortly after noon, Nasr walked down the Via Guerzoni toward a mosque to attend daily prayers. He was being watched by a crew of eight operatives, who accosted him on the sidewalk, sprayed chemicals in his face and shoved him into the back of a white van, according to an eyewitness statement given to investigators.

The Americans, who between them were carrying 17 cell phones, immediately started dialing numbers in Italy and the United States, according to investigators, who reported that by piecing together records of those phones' electronic signals they were able to trace the route of the van as it headed toward Aviano Air Base, a joint U.S.-Italian military installation.

The van entered the base without being stopped at the regular security checkpoints, Milan investigators found. Court documents show that a U.S. colonel at the air base in charge of security received three phone calls from the operatives as they drove toward Aviano.

Milan prosecutors said they would ask the U.S. government for permission to interrogate the colonel, concluding that "it reasonably appears that he was involved with the execution of this kidnapping and safekeeping of the hostage." The colonel now works at the Pentagon, according to a report Saturday in Corriere della Sera, an Italian newspaper.

A few hours after his arrival at Aviano, Nasr was put aboard a Learjet and taken to Ramstein Air Base, a U.S. military installation in Germany. There, he was transferred to another plane, which flew him to Cairo, Italian court records show.

Most of the CIA operatives apparently did not accompany Nasr on his flights. Hotel records show that all but one of the Americans allegedly involved in the abduction stayed in Italy for a few days afterward. Four of them checked into luxury hotels in Venice. Two others spent a couple of days in the Italian Alps before leaving the country.

Milan investigators determined, however, that the operative they described as the leader and organizer of the kidnapping -- a CIA officer based in Milan whose identity was well known to Italian counterterrorism officials -- showed up in Cairo five days after Nasr disappeared, according to the court records.

One remaining mystery in the case is whether Italian intelligence officials knew about the operation beforehand.

Opposition politicians in Rome have asked the parliamentary intelligence oversight committee to question Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu and Defense Minister Antonio Martino about whether they were aware of and had approved the operation, known in CIA parlance as an "extraordinary rendition." Cases that have come to light in the past have generally proceeded with the cooperation of local officials.

Marco Minniti, a member of the Democratic Left opposition party, said the request was made "to ascertain if members of Italian intelligence participated in the operation and, if so, what role they had."

Paolo Cento, a Green Party member, said: "The alternatives are only two. Either our authorities knew, or the American 007s had full freedom of action on our territory."


0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 04:05 pm
rayban1 wrote:
Laughing Those agents must be found before they can be arrested.


Indeed - I had assumed them to be in Italy, then read elsewhere that they were not.
0 Replies
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 04:42 pm
dlowan wrote:
rayban1 wrote:
Laughing Those agents must be found before they can be arrested.


Indeed - I had assumed them to be in Italy, then read elsewhere that they were not.


Jumping to conclusions is your strong suite......better known as engaging mouth before engaging brain.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 04:46 pm
Hmmm - early with the meaningless ad homs today, dear.

Hormonal troubles?

Poison ivy?

Let it all out - you will feel better.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 05:18 pm
rayban1 wrote:
Laughing Those agents must be found before they can be arrested.


With the smiley emoticon, one would be led to believe that you condone these overseas actions of the CIA.

How do you stand on this, Rayban? Do you consider it acceptable behaviour on the part of the CIA, to carry out such operations?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 05:42 pm
Sounds to me like a script was pre-maturly released and somebody mistook it for a press release... You know how those "anonymous" sources are...
0 Replies
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 09:31 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
rayban1 wrote:
Laughing Those agents must be found before they can be arrested.


With the smiley emoticon, one would be led to believe that you condone these overseas actions of the CIA.

How do you stand on this, Rayban? Do you consider it acceptable behaviour on the part of the CIA, to carry out such operations?


I believe it is good for Al Queda to know that there will be no safe havens anywhere in the world for them or Imams who preach hated and issue fatwas under cover as religious figures.
0 Replies
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 10:02 pm
dlowan wrote:
Hmmm - early with the meaningless ad homs today, dear.

Hormonal troubles?

Poison ivy?

Let it all out - you will feel better.


Gosh no sweet lips.......I'm just terribly concerned about your health.....all those cigs appear to be affecting your mental processes. :wink:
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 10:07 pm
Ah - I love the smell of ad homs in the morning - keep it up - you're bound to feel beter sooner or later...
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 10:08 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
rayban1 wrote:
Laughing Those agents must be found before they can be arrested.


With the smiley emoticon, one would be led to believe that you condone these overseas actions of the CIA.

How do you stand on this, Rayban? Do you consider it acceptable behaviour on the part of the CIA, to carry out such operations?


Be interesting to see if Canada follows suit - about their citizen who was kidnappped and tortured in Syria. They are not happy about it, that is for sure.

Oh - he was released uncharged - somethng of amistake, it seems.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2005 10:40 pm
So, I am interested in the rest of the apparent network, mentioned in some nytimes articles, that was in the process of being procedurally nabbed when all this occurred. Was this a wrench in a complicated schema by the appropriate (my view) authorities?

Was this a dump arrogation on italian competence? Italian prosecutors have been pretty sharp, from time to time, in my reading.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2005 12:27 am
rayban1 wrote:
Lord Ellpus wrote:
rayban1 wrote:
Laughing Those agents must be found before they can be arrested.


With the smiley emoticon, one would be led to believe that you condone these overseas actions of the CIA.

How do you stand on this, Rayban? Do you consider it acceptable behaviour on the part of the CIA, to carry out such operations?


I believe it is good for Al Queda to know that there will be no safe havens anywhere in the world for them or Imams who preach hated and issue fatwas under cover as religious figures.


So, you're saying that the USA can ride roughshod over the rest of the world, and take any person, at any time, in any Country, so long as they preach hatred and issue fatwas? Is there any other type of behaviour that might put one at risk? I think it would be only fair that the people of the world should have some sort of warning, so that we can all behave ourselves in future.
Oh....and the Governments of the world.....dont forget to give them a list as well....we wouldnt want them slacking now, would we?
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2005 12:59 am
I think the keyword that is missing in all of this is COOPERATION.
How did this operation affect the Italian investigation surrounding this man? They were probably biding their time and gradually building up a picture of his whole operational network.
Was there a single word of consultation between the CIA and the Italian authorities regarding the imminent abduction?
How would the CIA have felt, had the Italian secret service carried out the same operation on U.S. soil?
This probably blew the lid on months and months of painstaking investigation, and has caused any related "network" to go deep underground.
Two way consultation, information and support is by far the most effective way to beat this type of menace. Respect for another Country's sovereignty is also essential. This alleged operation, if it actually happened as reported, has probably hindered the long term fight.

What a shame.
0 Replies
 
 

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