I had a vision of Heaven and Hell

"have something against being treated as if I were wrong, merely based on something you think. How arrogant! "

Shocked

Dunno WHERE you got that impression, Sanct. I was merely explaining how *I* myself came to faith. Does it anywhere say "YOU ARE WRONG, SANCT!!!!!"? I thought these forums were a place for folks to exchange their views, opinions, insights, questions, and the like.

referring to is as the truth---where?

or the only positive option----where?

What bugs me is when people (a) read things into others' posts and (b) accuse them falsely. Confused

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jenniejen wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
Man wrote it based on stories Jesus told.

If Jesus was to show up right now, would you go to him and believe in him then. Just wondering.

I follow Him now.

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diagknowz wrote:

Man wrote it based on stories Jesus told. Er, um, BD, the O.T. was written before Jesus came down on earth, but in a sense, you are "write" , bec. as the 2nd Person of the Trinity, He was definitely part of the inspiration that resulted in the Scriptures.

I don't believe that it was "zapped" down from the heavens. I think that the bible is a collection over many years (while Jesus was alive and after) of stories and parables. Both the Old and New Testament.
Are you Catholic?

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diagknowz wrote:

I am not going to live my life believing in something out of fear. Right on the mark! Jesus died in our place precisely so that we could draw near to the Father WITHOUT fear.

T

But religion makes people believe because of fear. Be good, or you'll go to hell. Confess often, or you'll go to hell. Attend mass, or you'll go to hell. I was rasied Catholic and the very basis of the religion is fear.

This is why I just can't stand religions. They cause fear. They cause hate. And they cause war.

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Quote:

Jen, when He comes back, those who rejected Him will be terrifiedly scurrying for cover.

Quote:

It's kinda like somebody who's deaf----how do you convince him of the magnificence of Haendel's "Messiah," or again, somebody who's colorblind----how do you make him understand the rapture of colors in the tropical fish/flowers/parrots?

Quote:

Jen: Muslims think he was just a profit.
Diag: Sad to say, they are deceived.

Really? Are they? Because they don't agree with what you agree with (I.E., the supposed word of God)?

That, in my opinion, is arrogance. You speak it as if it is the truth. Despite what you think is the truth, and you may live as the truth, it does not give you the right to act as if that "truth" is true of others; especially when it comes to condemning them for their different faiths (calling someone decieved and reassuring us we're going to be terrified and running for cover when Jesus is supposed to return is all asumption, all opinion). I find it rude. Yes, you are able to express your opinion, but do it as an opinion - not cold fact. It's not.

Sorry Diag; like you, I can respect your beliefs and I wish you a lot of hapiness following them. I do, however, dislike the way you present your opinions. Without any room for flaw, because you know the truth and those who don't follow God are wrong. I disagree with that completely, and I'd appreciate not being treated as if I were going to be punished for that when I honestly don't believe I will be. Let opinions be opinions, not truths.

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I give up
I don't what what's more annoying Dig's sanctimonious attitude, (Sanc is absolutely on target....she's got your number - lord, the question marks and big wide eyes in your "I don't know what you're talking about response" - if you have every been on the other side of a response like that - you would know how arrogant & sanctimonious that is) or JennieJ's ignorance.

Sanc - hope your giggling at the above.

JJ - I was raised a roman catholic. the holy water comment was the 1st example that came to my head. - also, I'm guessing you're not a catholic, so what do you care about holy water.
I do read your words carefully, that's why I'm so incredulous - In your last comments I have come to the conclusion you are even more impressionable than I first thought.
Several times you mention someone "told" you something - and now you just believe it.

I 100% believe if you spent any amount of time with anyone else on this thread, you would come to believe anything that person "told" you.
Jeez - I bet you would believe someone from "Mars" Rolling Eyes

was from the devil is "someone" told you
You also apparently delete posts because someone "told" you you're not supposed to write about hell?
You remind me of this group of young women that lived in my dorm in college - they got involved (brainwashed actually) into this christian group. Before you know it, they were saying things like they wished they could live like the women in Jesus time did (what, most likely dead by the time you're 25?) and just so many other wacky things I won't go into.
The upshot of it was that of these I guess 5 girls that I knew of - one ended up getting knocked up (that's slang for pregnant) two got on uppers so they could stay awake longer to praise Jesus and a 4th flunked out due to like of class participation.

The awful thing is.....you don't see any of this.

Oh - and that comment about the word "trees" being slang....and if I don't understand, just forget about it?
What? you just couldn't explain what the word "trees" is slang for? I still don't know for sure, since you didn't define- What is that, privileged information slang?
I was asking a question - I just wanted to know. I take it it's a joint or something - you can say joint on A2K

I can't waste any more head space on this.....
I can't seem to get a straight answer to my questions, that is essentially what the problem is - you don't even know if you had a vision, dream or indigestion, and you're here for someone to tell you.
This isn't a faith issue, or dreams vs. visions issue, or hell in the middle of the earth issue. It's a "I'm refusing to see what's in front of my face" issue.
as dig stated - I thought these forums........exchange...views, opinions, insights, questions........
This thread has turned into one of withholding requested information, rigidity and absolutely no insights whatsoever.

bye bye - no hard feelings - see ya somewhere else on another thread.

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Right there with you Chai, only I personally believe this whole thing is quite the fiction story.

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Side Bar to Sanc & Bella (don't anyone else DARE read this)

After I took that faith-o-matic test from that other thread - I wuz talking to a friend/co-worker who's pretty in sync w/ me.

He said - "You know how sometimes some (fill in the blank.....Baptist, evangelist, whatever) is talking to you and you're trying to keep your eyes from glazing over? I bet they're thinking 'boy, I've almost got this one converted over!' when actually what your thinking is 'Does this person really BELIEVE this s**t"?

It was my best laugh of the day, because it's just so true!

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Chai Tea wrote:

He said - "You know how sometimes some (fill in the blank.....Baptist, evangelist, whatever) is talking to you and you're trying to keep your eyes from glazing over? I bet they're thinking 'boy, I've almost got this one converted over!' when actually what your thinking is 'Does this person really BELIEVE this s**t"?

Made me laugh!

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My sister is a missionary, Chai, and she's wonderful. She never preaches to me or tries to convert me (though they did make me watch Passion of the Christ in hopes of my being affected by it. I was, actually. The music was beautiful. I got the soundtrack the next day. As for the movie itself? Well..); so I do know that some are sane. However, living in the Bible Belt (Oklahoma), I've come across plenty of loons aswell.

Once I had a man come to my door asking if I wanted my lawn sprayed with Tru-Green, or something or other. I just happened to be wearing my "WWJD For a Klondyke Bar?" shirt, and he made a comment on it. "That shirt's funny," said the green-grass-guy. "Oh? Thanks, I got it online." "Where at?" "Oh, T-Shirt Hell." "Ah, amen! Are they any good?" "Sure, yeah, pretty offensive, but I only purchase the ones that are be G-rated, for the public." "Aha, well, that sure is awesome. So um...God bless. Bye!"

Shocked

"...Okay. I wanted my lawn sprayed. But okay."

He had said earlier that he'd be back in about an hour; he never showed up. I hope I didn't offend him; I just think it's crazy. He was either a very religious professional or a very sneaky member of a church looking for members. You'd be surprised at how they try to reel* you in down here.

Don't even get me started on the local Jesusmobile. Laughing

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Sanc - here's a good one - not necessarily a "conversion" story, but funny nonetheless.

2 years ago I was buying a dress suite for my step-daughters wedding (did I mention she was marrying another woman?)

Anyway - The person checking me out was a late 50's woman, very conservative.

She said "oh this suit will be LOVELY for Easter"

I can never keep my mouth shut when fed a line like that.....so I replied. "I'm Jewish, and actually it's for a wedding"
"Oh, you're JEW-ish" You know, with that East Tx accent.

She asked me "do you know Thomas Rosenberg (or whatever name)"

"Well, no, I don't. Why?"

"oh well, because HE'S JEW-ish.
Now of course he's a christian - and goes around to all the schools telling people how he found Jesus and changed his life."

I said "OH - TOM Rosenberg! OH, No one talks to him anymore"

I didn't even have a chance to get to the gay wedding part.

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That's...sadly hilarious, Chai. Laughing

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Chai Tea wrote:

I give up
I don't what what's more annoying Dig's sanctimonious attitude, (Sanc is absolutely on target....she's got your number - lord, the question marks and big wide eyes in your "I don't know what you're talking about response" - if you have every been on the other side of a response like that - you would know how arrogant & sanctimonious that is) or JennieJ's ignorance.

Sanc - hope your giggling at the above.

JJ - I was raised a roman catholic. the holy water comment was the 1st example that came to my head. - also, I'm guessing you're not a catholic, so what do you care about holy water.
I do read your words carefully, that's why I'm so incredulous - In your last comments I have come to the conclusion you are even more impressionable than I first thought.
Several times you mention someone "told" you something - and now you just believe it.

I 100% believe if you spent any amount of time with anyone else on this thread, you would come to believe anything that person "told" you.
Jeez - I bet you would believe someone from "Mars" was from the devil is "someone" told you
You also apparently delete posts because someone "told" you you're not supposed to write about hell?
You remind me of this group of young women that lived in my dorm in college - they got involved (brainwashed actually) into this christian group. Before you know it, they were saying things like they wished they could live like the women in Jesus time did (what, most likely dead by the time you're 25?) and just so many other wacky things I won't go into.
The upshot of it was that of these I guess 5 girls that I knew of - one ended up getting knocked up (that's slang for pregnant) two got on uppers so they could stay awake longer to praise Jesus and a 4th flunked out due to like of class participation.

The awful thing is.....you don't see any of this.

Oh - and that comment about the word "trees" being slang....and if I don't understand, just forget about it?
What? you just couldn't explain what the word "trees" is slang for? I still don't know for sure, since you didn't define- What is that, privileged information slang?
I was asking a question - I just wanted to know. I take it it's a joint or something - you can say joint on A2K

I can't waste any more head space on this.....
I can't seem to get a straight answer to my questions, that is essentially what the problem is - you don't even know if you had a vision, dream or indigestion, and you're here for someone to tell you.
This isn't a faith issue, or dreams vs. visions issue, or hell in the middle of the earth issue. It's a "I'm refusing to see what's in front of my face" issue.
as dig stated - I thought these forums........exchange...views, opinions, insights, questions........
This thread has turned into one of withholding requested information, rigidity and absolutely no insights whatsoever.

bye bye - no hard feelings - see ya somewhere else on another thread.

Um, I didn't know you can say joint, fat blunt , spiff ,ganja. Its called street slang. Where are you from. Can you give a description of your self.I have given you one.

No offence, like you said. But you talk a lot of s**t. You must be miserable in your chemically imbalanced brain.I really don't care. Seems like you like to judge people and you shouldn't.

I don't belive anything anyone tells me. Unless I know its true, and it came from the bible. I always believed in GOD. I'm not a christen and I'm not a calthoic. If I mentioned something about holy water, you should of drawn an inference from my quote about it. This is called higher educational reading. I was raised as a calthoic and baptised as a christen. These are both basically the same. I just praise God in my mind and all the time. I do not stand on the corner and preach. I don't preach to anyone. Ill say God bless you. I give to the poor and be kind to all people. The other day a poor man asked me if I had any change, so he can get something to drink. I gave it to him, and I pray for him. He is not the only one. This is what God wants, for people to love each other and give each other respect. I do not judge anyone. I try not to have bad thoughts about anyone.

If there was life on Mars like you said. I would not trust them because they might be like people and want to take over earth. Laughing

Whats the matter with you? Are you stuiped or something? Do you have a bug up your ass? Are you just an ignorant ...

Now really I am not going to sit here and listen to your crap. Basically, what you say does not bother me in no way shape or form. If you can dish out, I really hope you can dish this in. If I get banned, Which I hope I don't, I will just sign on tomorrow from work with a new name. Its as simple as that. Now would one of your little girl friends from college be typing the way I am If I was like one of them.
Really, you don't know me so don't compar me to some stuiped ass girls you went to college with, and the dam old lady. I am nothing like them. See what I'm talking about, you judge. Shame on you. You dont even know me either. I guess now you are going to get to know me and how I act when someone makes me mad. Also you write to long of post with a bunch of bull in it. Seems like its always all about me. Hey don't worry though.If you have anymore of your magnificent questions, just ask them. I would love to answer them. This is starting to get really interesting. don't leave now!

You are the type of person they talk about in the bible. The one who trys to make you think there is no God. If you don't belive in him thats your problem. I do. Just know this, you are not better than me or anyone else in this world.

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Quote:

I give to the poor and be kind to all people.

Really?

Quote:

Whats the matter with you? Are you stuiped or something? Do you have a bug up your ass? Are you just an ignorant ...

Aha.

Jen, before trying to insult someone and prove yourself intelligent, please use spell check.

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BD, bless your heart! Now Shocked

I understand where you're coming from. If I had had those experiences, I'd chuck it all, too! Crying or Very sad

But I still think that it doesn't take religion to cause wars (unless you wanna include politics-as-religion, which is my theory of the state of collective actions since the Englightenment; in other words, modern societies expect from politics what people used to expect from God). It's true that religion CAN cause wars (and has), but that's not inevitable.

To get more precise, if you look at Jesus' life, He NEVER advocated violence to further His Kingdom; on the contrary, "My kingship is not of this world; if My kingship were of this world, My servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but My kingship is not from the world." (JOHN 18:36) Additionally, right before that, when the guys're coming to crucify Him, the most amazing thing happens! Shocked

"they [His disciples who were with him] said to him, 'Lord, shall we strike with the sword?' A certain one of them struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear." Then, Jesus touched his ear and made it WELL! Can you imagine?? To me, that is one of the most astonishing verses in the WORD, bec. if somebody were going to crucify me, I'd sure's Fort Knox not be inclined to fix his ear! (Which shows you I still have a LONNNNNG way to go in becoming more like Him Rolling Eyes

).

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Sanct, you have a knack for reading things into a text. You'd make a GREAT lit-prof! Laughing

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diagknowz wrote:

To get more precise, if you look at Jesus' life, He NEVER advocated violence to further His Kingdom;

Of course, but man came into the picture, set up a church and ran with it. I belive in God and I know that I will go to heaven when I die, but I can't be part of an organization that is full of hypocrisy. Which is why I left the church.

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I give to the poor and be kind to all people.Really?

Yes really. I love all people even the one who insulted me. I am sorry for talking crap to him or her.

Aha.

Jen, before trying to insult someone and prove yourself intelligent, please use spell check.[/quote]

Maybe I'm not the best speller, and I did use spell check. Like I said, noone is perfect. Now why are you trying to insult me?

I'm really sorry you do not know the truth about God. We are not machines that just shut off when we die. We have souls. Maybe I don't believe everything in the bible ,but I belive in Jesus.I also believe in most things.It was so long ago no one really knows exactly what happened. People could have change the bible over the years and left things out or added things. It was not originally written in english. It was a bunch of different stories stuck in the same book. Do you know they found Noahs Ark? Its over there somewhere in Iraq,iran ,somewhere around one of them countrys, and its being guarded because the Muslims wont let anyone near it. Its high up on a mountain somewhere and anyone who trys to go near it will be shot, So I believe in Noahs Ark. I believe in Adam and Eve. We will really never know exactly until we die. I believe in JESUS. He was here and he said he came from heaven. God planted a seed in Mary. She was a virgin. Jesus was here. He told everyone who he was, how he came here, and what his father wants from us. He talked about everything. He healed people.

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No, Jen, you're sorry that I don't agree with your opinion about God. Again, with the "truth" thing.

"Noah's Ark" could be absolutely any boat from any person. I've never heard of such a supposed artifact being found, though I'd love to read about it if you can provide a link, and I am in no way convinced that it was "the" ark. The seas once rose far beyond our mountain tops, and if there's a ship found in one of them then the possibilities are endless, and quite rational.

I was not insulting you, Jen. I wasn't insulting Diag, either. I am, however, attacking the arrogance you both possess. People like yourselves make me very, very reassured in my disbelief in a God.

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I have been following the discussion(s) here, and I'm puzzled: (a) why is passionate conviction branded as "arrogance" or "bigotry" or "fanaticism" when it's coming from the non-Left, but there is nothing but praise and exaltation for passionate conviction when it's from the Left (viz. MLK, Bobby Kennedy, Ghandi, et al)? (b) If a person doesn't believe in the Bible or Jesus or God, then why get all bent out of shape about somebody's quoting them? It's not as though anybody's forcing you to believe. For example, I think as a body of teachings, Buddhism, Hinduism & Islam are abominable. But I don't take it personally in the slightest if somebody quotes those as "gospel" in an essay or post or book. I don't resort to hurling epithets, though if I have enough time and energy (and the inclination Smile

), I might give counter-arguments.

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I had a vision of Heaven and Hell

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