2
   

A response I wrote to an article on Child Marriage;

 
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 06:51 am
@Glennn,
It's also a harmful practice thougj.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 09:47 am
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Your heritage is only shameful if you knowingly continue to engage in practices which you are of the belief of being harmful and/or wrong. Morally reprehensible even.

Your heritage of colonialism, in itself is not where the fault is found.


What are you talking about? I am not engaging in any of the practices being discussed.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 09:56 am
@Olivier5,
I am part of a culture and I have a shared set of beliefs, values and experiences with other people in my culture. Further I have the ability to argue on equal footing with other members of my culture; when I argue with Sturgis there is no power imbalance (as there would be with members of an indigenpus tribe or a colonial possession).

I have the power and the right to express my views about my own culture. I have the interest and I have an intimate understanding of how my culture works.

I don't have the right to push my views on indigenous people. I dont understand their culture, and I am part of a power imbalanace that stems from colonialism.All I have in this case are the prejudices of Western culture.

The issue is when White people push their moral views on indigenous peoples.
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 01:47 pm
@maxdancona,
Learn to read!

It was you who said something about what you perceive as a shameful heritage.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 02:14 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

Quote:
Child Marriage was an important part of many indigenous cultures.

If by "important" you mean "necessary," you're wrong. Child marriage is just wrong.


Depend on how you define the age for childhood.

If you look at posters of missing children a large percent of the females in their mid teens had run away with males five or ten years older then they are.

Quote:
Marriages and children
On December 25, 1871, at the age of 24, Edison married 16-year-old Mary Stilwell (1855–1884), whom he had met two months earlier; she was an employee at one of his shops.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 03:09 pm
@Sturgis,
I said that that colonialism was a shameful heritage. By Colonialism I mean tge process where White people dominated and destroyed indigenous cultures... cultures that I argue had intrinsic value.

Hopefully you at least agree that our heritige of colonialism is shameful.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 04:08 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I said that that colonialism was a shameful heritage. By Colonialism I mean tge process where White people dominated and destroyed indigenous cultures... cultures that I argue had intrinsic value.

Hopefully you at least agree that our heritige of colonialism is shameful.


Given that a large percent of those cultures spend their time raiding and killing each other for women an slaves and once horses had been introduce for horses you are being a little simple minded and that is not even consider the cultures that would cut out the hearts of their enemies for religion ceremonies.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 05:22 pm
@BillRM,
I am arguing against colonialism.

I am not sure I get your point Bill. The question is whether White people have the moral authority to push their views on indigenous peoplea. Your response is to paint indigenous people as brutal savages. It seems like you are saying that White people have the right to push our ideas on indigenous cultures because culture is superior.

Is that what you are saying?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 07:03 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am arguing against colonialism.

I am not sure I get your point Bill. The question is whether White people have the moral authority to push their views on indigenous peoplea. Your response is to paint indigenous people as brutal savages. It seems like you are saying that White people have the right to push our ideas on indigenous cultures because culture is superior.

Is that what you are saying?


LOL so stopping the religion mass murders of native people by destroying the culture of the Aztecs was wrong????

After all the Spanish have white skin and therefore should have been ban from such actions.

Once more it is not that simple

How dare those with white skin interfere with the Aztecs!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  4  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 07:19 pm
@maxdancona,
That heritage of colonialism (not sure if I actually have any), while appearing shameful in retrospective reflectiveness, is part and parcel of what brought the U.S.A. to where it is today. Including the abolishment of slavery. Of course, the U.S.A. (and other nations, and not just whites), continue to impose their own beliefs, values and will upon others, long past the time of colonialism.

People - all people, make decisions. Some are obviously disastrous and that is clear immediately. In a number of instances, it's known prior to an action or series of actions being perpetrated.

Shameful. Disgusting. Sickening. A whole host of adjectives can be used. Even in situations where things are done with the intent of helping, it often turns out badly.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 10:23 pm
@Sturgis,
I strongly disagree. The idea that European colonialism ended slavery is ridiculous. You should also consider what we did to the indigenous cultures living in North America.

BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 10:52 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I strongly disagree. The idea that European colonialism ended slavery is ridiculous. You should also consider what we did to the indigenous cultures living in North America.




Name one thing the Europeans did to the natives including slavery that they did not do to each other without the aid of the Europeans.

Hell even before 1492 whole north american tribes had been wiped out by other tribes in warfare.


Footnote it was the industrial revolution that ended slavery.
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 11:00 pm
@BillRM,
It amuses me that BillRM and Sturgus are on the same side. I reject any claim that what European colonialism did to indigenous peoples was justified.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 11:11 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

It amuses me that BillRM and Sturgus are on the same side. I reject any claim that what European colonialism did to indigenous peoples was justified.



So the killings and the mass murders and slavery of native populations is fine with you as long as it was other native people doing the deed an not Europeans?

Without the Europeans the American native would to this day be raiding and killings and enslaving each other.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 03:35 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The issue is when White people push their moral views on indigenous peoples.

What about when non-white people push their moral views on indigenous peoples? Is that not a problem????
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 08:21 am
@BillRM,
I am arguing that what European colonialism was barbaric brutal and wrong. What thr indigenous peoples were doing is irrelevant.... unless you ar arguing the White people are superior.

You seem to be arguing that having White people dominate indigenous cultures is a good thing. I strongly disagree.

If you believe that White people and their culture are superior, then youtnargument nakes sense.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 08:22 am
@Olivier5,
Of course it is a problem. That is tangential to the problem of White Spremacy.

Are you really making the argument that what indigenous culture donjustifies their being dominated by Western culture?
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 09:45 am
@maxdancona,
What I mean is: Why single out western civilization as uniquely evil under the sun? What the Chinese Han do to indigenous cultures in China is not so different from what "whites" did.

Also, not all "white" colonialists treated indigenous cultures the same way.

This fixation on "whites" is a bit simplistic in other words.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 10:11 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am arguing that what European colonialism was barbaric brutal and wrong. What thr indigenous peoples were doing is irrelevant.... unless you ar arguing the White people are superior.

You seem to be arguing that having White people dominate indigenous cultures is a good thing. I strongly disagree.

If you believe that White people and their culture are superior, then youtnargument nakes sense.


So I would suggest that those native people who had their ancestors hearts cut out just might disagree with you about whites not interfering with some native cultures.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Nov, 2019 10:47 am
@Olivier5,
This is a thread where White people are condemning indigenous cultures. The implication is that White people can not only pass judgement on indigenous people, but that it is appropriate to us the power imbalance to Westernize them.

If there was a thread promoting Chinese imperialism I promise I would challenge that too.
 

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