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have we just witnessed history being made ??

 
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 10:40 pm
The USA, in my humble opinion, is by far the biggest supplier of Aid around the globe. It has MASSIVE wealth and resources and therefore is able to get things done quickly in times of disaster..... AND DOES.
If there is a job to be done in a disaster hit area of the world, everyone knows that when the yanks turn up, that job will get done in record time, with no expense spared.
The USA definitely does its bit...and THEN some.
The press coverage regarding the "supposed" USA stalling on this debt issue, IMO, is quite unfair. The US government was quite right in wanting to have their say in how the whole thing should operate.

Let's just hope that this debt relief, and other major reforms including fair trade and ending corruption, gets approval at the G8 summit, and finally starts to sort out the problems in Africa.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2005 11:25 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
The USA, in my humble opinion, is by far the biggest supplier of Aid around the globe. It has MASSIVE wealth and resources and therefore is able to get things done quickly in times of disaster..... AND DOES.


Some of this is very true, LordE, but some of this is, I'm afraid, very misleading.

Quote:


The USA is only the worlds' biggest giver because it is rich. In terms of generosity and altruism, the USA is the most stingy and self-interested giver in the developed world:

"[Americans] are regularly told by politicians and the media, that America is the world's most generous nation. This is one of the most conventional pieces of 'knowledgeable ignorance'. According to the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the US gave between $6 and $15 billion in foreign aid in the period between 1995 and 1999. In absolute terms, Japan gives more than the US, between $9 and $15 billion in the same period. But the absolute figures are less significant than the proportion of gross domestic product (GDP, or national wealth) ...

On that league table, the US ranks twenty-second of the 22 most developed nations. As former President Jimmy Carter commented: 'We are the stingiest nation of all'.

Apart from being the least generous nation, the US is highly selective in who receives its aid. Over 50% of its aid budget is spent on middle-income countries in the Middle East, with Israel being the recipient of the largest single share"

Not only that, but according to one source cited by Sarder & Davies, 80% of that aid itself actually goes to American companies in those foreign countries.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/foreign_aid.html

0 Replies
 
catch22
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 12:30 am
brahmin wrote:
i thought it was when usa was itself a colony of england.. though it probably continued well after they declared their independence.... but even then the people back then were still english - the first generation of americans werent yet born.


but


even if usa is as much a colonial coultry as the other 6 i named, they have done more than their fair bit to help alleviate poverty, be it by virtue of the fact that they are the biggest donors to the uno (and probably amenesty and red cross as well) or be it in the fat cheques they come up with during calamities such as this recent tsunami.... which is not what can be said of the "dirty half-dozen".


But measuring the generosity of the United States depends on the yardstick.


The U.S. government is always near the top in total humanitarian aid dollars � even before private donations are counted � but it finishes near the bottom of the list of rich countries when that money is compared to gross national product.
As a percentage of gross national product, the OECD's (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development) figures on development aid show that as of April, none of the world's richest countries donated even 1 percent of its gross national product. Norway was highest, at 0.92 percent; the United States was last, at 0.14 percent.


Such figures were what prompted Jan Egeland � the United Nations (news - web sites)' emergency relief coordinator and former head of the Norwegian Red Cross � to challenge the giving of rich nations.


"We were more generous when we were less rich, many of the rich countries," Egeland said. "And it is beyond me, why are we so stingy, really. ... Even Christmas time should remind many Western countries at least how rich we have become."


Egeland told reporters Tuesday his complaint wasn't directed at any nation in particular.
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brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:10 am
well thanks for correcting me on the holland bit. for some reason the news agencies, print and electronic alike, never erver mentioned holland and what they chipped in with. it was usa, japan and the arab bloc (3 biggest cheques, in terms of size).

so holland did help too.

but even that dont change the fact that they did suck on many nations and grew wealthy at their expense. same goes for the other 5 amongst the "dirty half dozen".


and what members here are writting about usa pulling strings to ensure por countries get puppet govt, confirms one notion that i always had - that usa would be a great country with a near clean sheet - if only that damned cia and pentagon would fall off the map.
cia are paid criminals, no 2 ways about that.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:26 am
brahmin wrote:


- that usa would be a great country with a near clean sheet


Did you happen to read my recent responses to you, brahmin? What exactly do you call a "near clean sheet"?

Like I said, ALL of the "western" countries had the same frame of mind at the time. Expand through power and military might, if at all possible.
It just so happened that the USA was too busy exploiting the riches, and oppressing the native peoples of its own newly conquered territory, to be poking its nose into any other part of the world.

None of us are Saints.....let's look to the future and try to make the world a civilised place, eh? The time for backbiting should stop, and positive action should take over.
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brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 07:15 am
i mean more than half the "string pulling inother countries" that usa does is by way of the cia.. sometimes like in the noriega case, without washingtons knowledge and/or approval.

thats why i said if the cia would fall off the map, a lot fewers balls would be in usa's court...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 07:25 am
brahmin wrote:
i mean more than half the "string pulling inother countries" that usa does is by way of the cia.. sometimes like in the noriega case, without washingtons knowledge and/or approval.

thats why i said if the cia would fall off the map, a lot fewers balls would be in usa's court...


The CIA doesn't act without Washington's approval. Not all of Washington is aware but those in charge are. The President approves all those actions and the Senate oversight committee is made aware of them. The CIA has a lot of black ops that the public isn't aware of but it in no way means those in charge are not knowledgable.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 11:14 am
Lord Ellpus wrote:

We in the "Western world", have ALL been guilty of expansion during our history.


and not just the western world either, m'lord.

clan, tribal (etc.) aggression predates man's move into what is considered the west.

ironically, science states that mankind's earliest beginnings are placed in africa.
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brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 10:43 pm
ok noted.

we were talking about the waiver of the loans - granted mostly by nations who have, by colonising or other means, ammased a lot of ill gotten wealth - gratnted to more or less those countries who were at the recieving end of the economic syphoning.

so where to from here ??
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 07:11 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Lord Ellpus wrote:

We in the "Western world", have ALL been guilty of expansion during our history.


and not just the western world either, m'lord.

clan, tribal (etc.) aggression predates man's move into what is considered the west.

ironically, science states that mankind's earliest beginnings are placed in africa.


This has been an interesting thread to read. I wanted to suggest something about the forgiveness of the debt and the conditions of its enactment: isn't that pushing forward the globalization of the third world countries who benefit from the forgiveness of their debts? In a way, it produces predictable controlled expansion, along the lines of the ideals espoused by the countries in charge of the debt, kwim? Why wage war when expansion can be accomplished by other means, eh? Make them join "us" against the rebellious "them" who don't qualify for the global benevolence, kwim? I think it's the 2nd strike in some grand plan the powers that be (Bush/Blair? the neocons?) have to bring about power in a very specific way. It's an interesting move they made...
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 08:44 am
aha... the motive......possible.

as for "pushing forward the development of the third world countries..."... dont you think that its hightime that they, especially the dirty half dozen, did their bit to push forward the developmet of the same "third world countries" that they sucked dry and "pushed backward" (and themselves became rich) for centuries together??


befor colonialism, europe was the poorest continent in the solar system, behind everyone, and certainly behind mineral rich africa and largely fertile asia.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 11:16 am
princesspupule wrote:
I wanted to suggest something about the forgiveness of the debt and the conditions of its enactment: isn't that pushing forward the globalization of the third world countries who benefit from the forgiveness of their debts?


good point. it's already been stated by the whitehouse that our monetary contributions will be awarded to countries that meet the conditions of being a democracy, or democracy friendly. i.e., usa friendly. i guess that makes sense. ya don't wanna bail out your enemies.

but yeah, that could be, or could be seen as a kind of non-violent colonization.

hah ! how spooky is this ??

as i started to type this, msnbc just relayed comments by "world bank head, paul wolfowitz" regarding the forgiveness of debt owed by african countries.
0 Replies
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2005 03:20 pm
washington has a history of siding with people of doubious credentials just cos they were pro usa or usa friendly... washington also has a history of ignoring highly non democratic practices carried out by pro usa leaders - eg. suharto's genocide in east timor, pakistan's genocide in east pakistan. many more.
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