life is pain

Dr. M. Scott Peck, in his writing of The Road Less Traveled, dealt with this. I believe the opening sentence is "Life is difficult."

He basically agreed that life is pain, in that we are meant to have spiritual growth, but that spiritual growth can be difficult if not painful. The discomfort comes from having to face certain facts, accept realizations, etc.

An example would be about ten years ago when I went through a very painful time. I had always believed in the general goodness of people. For some reason, I was being bombarded with proof that not all people are "good." It wasn't anything like being robbed or mugged, just a little lie, a hateful comment, that kinda thing. My perception was being challenged. I had, for 30 years, trusted people. It's hard to explain now that I'm trying to. I wasn't naive. I just didn't jump to conclusions of negative motives when people said or did something. Suddenly, it felt like no one could be trusted to be kind or have good intentions.

As simple as it sounds, it was actually very painful for me to face that new reality. I was resentful that I was losing my innocence. I didn't want to be negative or distrustful. I didn't want to become like that.

I was going through a period of growth. That growth was painful.

But, it led to a better understanding of life. (As well as more growing and more pain as perceptions change)

Therefore, in a long winded way, I agree that life is pain. In the long run, it's good pain, required pain if one really desires to live.

Squinney, you say that your growth has been painful. Do you mean to say that you have suffered the disappointment of realizing that people are not as good as you had presumed? You referred to this realization as "spiritual growth." Don't you think that real growth might be more likely if you come to understand why people do the things that disappoint you? I think that most people try to do what they consider right. And they try to do this in a way consistent with their needs. They are humans, just like you and I. I forgive myself my humanity and them theirs. I don't describe this as spiritual, but it does make life with others more pleasant.
You say that "As simple as it sounds, it was actually very painful for me to face [the] new reality" that "no one could be trusted to be kind or have good intentions." Is being mistrustful a desireable state of mind for you?

No, no, no.

It was "spiritual growth" in the sense of my own spiriit dealing with a new lesson, so it was broader than a religious type experience of growth.

It was mentally painful, not physically.

It wasn't just disappointment. I've had plenty of that in life. It was more of a shaking up of my reality, that made me start questioning other basic beliefs I had had. Maybe those are wrong too, kinda thing.

Maybe I'm not able to explain it because it's so personal and individualized for each of us. Your pain may emminate from a different growth need, and your neighbors from yet another.

It's probably the closest I've come to understanding reincarnation. Not that I believe it, just that suddenly the concept of different lessons needing to be learned, each at their own pace, each based on past experience, etc. finally made sense.

Maybe life is pain only for those that seek meaning or understanding.

Maybe I'm just rambling...

I'm not sure I understand your very personal comments, but I thank you for your effort.

What was it that Zorba said?:

"Life is trouble, only death is not!"


Gotta go along with that.

Yes, msolga. Death is easy. All you've got to do is lie there.

I have "The Road Less Travelled." I was disappointed in it though, maybe because I was looking for a more specific guide, maybe all the talk about miracles of subconscious and coincidences or the psychotherapic assumptions turned me away...



Come on, death is not easy or difficult! For in death there is no ease nor difficulty.

Yes, JL.
Struggle = dealing with the challenges thrown at us despite our desire for a life somewhat more harmonious = reaffirmation of our being alive & our determination to survive. These challenges are the the bulk of our life experiences. They also change & stretch us in ways we'd never, ever anticipated. Horrible as they've been at times, I'm rather grateful they crossed my path. (I can't believe I just said that, still reeling from the last onslaught! )

Are you speaking from personal experience here? This could be a good way for us now to segue over into the topic of reincarnation.

I'm struggling with this right now.

Buddha says "Life is suffering"
or
pain=life

I have no frickin' idea where this goes!!

i'm gonna think and type , please have mercy:
If pain is fleeting (which I perceive it to be) and life is fleeting (which i perceive it to be) , Ok it makes sense.
If pain depends on how i view it (which i perceive it to be) and so does life (again, wipitb), Fine.

What i don't get is how all this leads to Buddha saying there is a way out of suffering. He's suggestioning that that it's possible to somehow be removed from the cycles of pain and life. How can this be?

If anyone can understand what i'm struggling with, please help me out.
thanks

Re: life is pain

Yeah sometimes life can be very disappointing and unfulfilling but we must learn to see the positive side of all adversities. What do you think?

Flush, consider that pain and Buddha's "suffering" are not the same thing. In Buddhism there is "suffering" (in an existential sense) whether or not one is enjoying pleasure or enduring physical pain. Suffering, in Buddha's sense, is a spiritual rather than a physical condition.

That's what I thought, JLNobody.

I kinda took it that some pain (physical) is a given if you're alive.

I suppose then to this question I would definetly say "no".
I'm not in physical pain every minute i'm alive. That's just silly.

I suppose I took the question to be more of an 'existential' question.
'Cause really, why seperate physical and the other kinds of pain or 'suffering'.? It's all crap we have to learn to deal with. And I know from experience that physical pain is influenced by how I deal with it.
Since I've gotten a lil older, and learned to just 'flow' with pain, everything 'hurts' less.
If you cut my arm off though, I'll scream bloody murder!

Flushd, yes, learning to "flow with the pain" is essential. My shoulders are nearly in constant pain (aches), but I rarely notice it anymore. Probably a severe pain would be another matter. I'll just have to wait and see

Detachment and nondependance(freedom) are the most essencial values for a happy life.
Then identification with the pure spirit(thoughts) in ourselves which with time leads to immortality.Yes it does exist!
For this we need to struggle with selfishness,and as we say;

Even a fish is better than a selfish.The fish cleans the water,the selfish pollutes the atmosphere! :wink:

read schuller

I'm 15 and I believe pain is pain. I feel like all we do is:

Born
Learn
Evolve - (build a better world for our next generations)
Die

We have no real purpose...

I would wrather say... Pain = stress

Am I goin through this because I'm a teenager, going through these stressful teen years, or am I correct?

Dear zeroh,

Indeed teenage period of life is not very easy.
Emotions are very strong and many questions arise in your mind.
We are full of energy but yet we dont have control over it!...
It seems that the whole world is stupid ,ugly and against us,isnt it!?
How can we overcome this stress this strange life force which is so disturbing?
By practicing a creative activity:for ex martial arts(which are indeed very good because they go alon with spirituality and philosophy),Painting,music,sports, and seek company of wise and intelligent people... :wink:

Yes. Latly I've noticed the people we live with are so ignorant. So self centered. Kids my age want to fight all the time, and adults can't mind their own business. I am always stressed between school, and my personal life, and this makes me question life constantly. -"If I died, the world wouldn't stop, and I'd probobly be less stressed" - "Why follow the T.V. and act and dress the way the people on T.V. tell you to." - "How can one person call another person crazy? Who says waking up going to work coming home and sleeping to do the same thing the next day isn't crazy?!" But it is ironic you mentioned martial arts, because that is about all I am interested in. I've been training since I was 9, and I wonder what I would be like if I'd never picked up the interest in MA.