8
   

Trump Seen Through Pence's Eyes

 
 
gollum
 
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:37 am
If (a big if) Vice President Pence didn't like Trump's involvement in Ukraine, I guess he could make a speech and so state.

I wonder if there is any precedent for that. Originally the person with the second highest number of votes for president became vice president, I think the two men might sometimes have been enemies.
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:53 am
@gollum,
What do you think Trump's involvement with Ukraine consists of?

So far we have an anonymous source that quoted hearsay about something that may or may not have happened.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:03 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix,

1) What if the facts show that Trump threatened to withhold foreign aid to pressure a foreign government to investigate. Is there any point where you break with your partisan line to say this abuse of power is bad foenthe country?

2) If the law says that a transcript of the phone call, being the subject of a whisleblower complaint, should be provided to Congress... Will you support following the law?

I am willing to call bullshit on my own side when my own side does something wrong. I don't see anyone on the right doing this.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:05 pm
@McGentrix,
We have quite a bit more than an anonymous source. But that doesn't change my questions.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:55 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

McGentrix,

1) What if the facts show that Trump threatened to withhold foreign aid to pressure a foreign government to investigate. Is there any point where you break with your partisan line to say this abuse of power is bad for the country?

Like Biden REALLY did?


Trump DIDN'T threaten to withhold foreign aid to pressure a foreign government to investigate. You are spreading the same lies the media has told you to spread. Please stop until you have an actual fact to share with the class.

maxdancona wrote:
2) If the law says that a transcript of the phone call, being the subject of a whisleblower complaint, should be provided to Congress... Will you support following the law?

I am willing to call bullshit on my own side when my own side does something wrong. I don't see anyone on the right doing this.


Your side? You don't really have a side, you are a middle man.
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 01:08 pm
@McGentrix,
Do you really not see the difference??
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 02:16 pm
@McGentrix,
Your answer to my question was a little roundabout, but if I understand correctly, your answer is 'No'. There is no set of evidence or facts that would change your mind.

My mind can be changed quite easily. I wsnt to know what is in the transcript. I would want a democratic president to be held accountable in the same way.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 02:26 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
So far we have an anonymous source that quoted hearsay about something that may or may not have happened.
seems that trump has already stipulated to it and has replied 'So what?". Aeve gon from "NOT I" to"SO WHAT IF I DID??"
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 02:39 pm
@maxdancona,
MSNBC is now saying that Mitch McConnell is working with Chuck Schumer in an effort to have the whistleblower's report released to Congress. That's just one source, haven't seen other news outlets reporting the same thing.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 03:12 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
1) What if the facts show that Trump threatened to withhold foreign aid to pressure a foreign government to investigate. Is there any point where you break with your partisan line to say this abuse of power is bad for the country?

If "having your political enemies investigated" is an abuse of power, does that mean we can jail every progressive in the nation for their unrelenting drive to investigate Trump?

Because I'm in favor of jailing all progressives if we can make that happen.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 05:19 pm
@oralloy,
Do you agree with this principle?

The same ethical standards should apply to a president whether he is a Democrat or a Republican.

If not.. than this discussion is moot. But, I will continue anyway.

The charge against Trump is that he withheld money allocated by Congress for foreign aid to pressure a foreign government to interfere with an electoral campaign by investigating the son of one of his rivals. The issue is that he abused his power as president while exercising his duties as head of state (which should have been non-partisan).

- Would this be a impeachable offense if it were done by a Democratic president?
- Is this an impeachable offense if it was done by Trump?

We are only talking about this particular charge. In my view, this rises far above the normal partisan back and forth... and yes, I would support impeachment if a Democratic president did this.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 06:40 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Do you agree with this principle?
The same ethical standards should apply to a president whether he is a Democrat or a Republican.

I agree with it, but I find it a bit narrow.

I think the same ethical standards should apply to all politicians, and not just to presidents.


maxdancona wrote:
The charge against Trump is that he withheld money allocated by Congress for foreign aid to pressure a foreign government to interfere with an electoral campaign by investigating the son of one of his rivals. The issue is that he abused his power as president while exercising his duties as head of state (which should have been non-partisan).

- Would this be a impeachable offense if it were done by a Democratic president?
- Is this an impeachable offense if it was done by Trump?

If it is an impeachable offense, then the entire Democratic Party is guilty of the same offense for relentlessly trying to have Trump investigated.

So if we first remove every single Democrat from office, then I'll be OK with also holding Trump accountable.

But if we aren't going to remove all of the Democrats from office for trying to have Trump investigated, then it shouldn't be an impeachable offense in Trump's case either.


maxdancona wrote:
We are only talking about this particular charge.

I'm not. I'm also talking of leftist misdeeds.


maxdancona wrote:
In my view, this rises far above the normal partisan back and forth...

In my view Trump hasn't done anything that the Democrats haven't done a hundred times worse.


maxdancona wrote:
and yes, I would support impeachment if a Democratic president did this.

How about the rest of the Democratic Party? Can we remove all of the Democrats from office for trying to have Trump investigated?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 07:10 pm
@oralloy,
Max wrote:
he withheld money allocated by Congress for foreign aid to pressure a foreign government to interfere with an electoral campaign by investigating the son of one of his rivals. The issue is that he abused his power as president while exercising his duties as head of state (which should have been non-partisan).


Oralloy wrote:
he entire Democratic Party is guilty of the same offense for relentlessly trying to have Trump investigated.


You seem to be arguing that these two very different statements are the same thing. You aren't making any more sense.

I don't know how to make this any more clear. The reason this is an impeachable offense is.

- Pressuring a foreign government to investigate the son of a political rival in an upcoming election.
- Misusing his power as head of state.
- Obstructing justice by refusing to release a whistleblower report to Congress.

If any Democrat does these things, I will support their impeachment.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 07:12 pm
@oralloy,
By your same logic, would you argue Jeffrey Dahmer should have been exonerated because Obama ate hamburger?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 07:28 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
- Pressuring a foreign government to investigate the son of a political rival in an upcoming election.
- Misusing his power as head of state.

If it is OK for the Democrats to try to have Trump investigated, then it is OK for Trump to try to have the Democrats investigated.


maxdancona wrote:
- Obstructing justice by refusing to release a whistleblower report to Congress.

The Democrats have a history of framing innocent people for obstruction of justice. Any such obstruction charges are sure to be just another leftist frame-up.

Not to mention the fact that the Democrats thought obstruction of justice was just fine when Bill Clinton was the one doing it.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 07:42 pm
I really believe that Trump is seeking to trash our Constitution. Remember, it was the GOP that undid Nixon, and it was abuse of power too.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 07:45 pm
@farmerman,
The GOP was not wise back then to how nefarious the Democrats are. They should have resisted the witch hunt against Nixon.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 08:02 pm
@oralloy,
yeh right, lets rewrite history with some Bullshit from your worldview, where only one amendment of the Constitution is worth a second glance by you.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 08:04 pm
@oralloy,
What you posting is completely irrelevant to the question of whether Trump committed an impeachable offense.

Either he has, or he hasn't. The Democrats have absolutely nothing to do with it.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 08:32 pm
@maxdancona,
So much for your supposed equal treatment of Democratic wrongdoing.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
0 Replies
 
 

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