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Captives told to claim torture

 
 
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 09:21 am
An al Qaeda handbook preaches to operatives to level charges of torture once captured, a training regime that administration officials say explains some of the charges of abuse at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp.

The American Civil Liberties Union last week posted on its Web site 2002 FBI documents regarding accusations from suspected al Qaeda and Taliban detainees at the detention center. The organization had won a court decision that forced the administration to release scores of e-mails between agents who had interviewed captives.

U.S. Southern Command, which oversees the prison, is investigating interrogation techniques at "GTMO," as the naval base in Cuba is called, as well as the FBI-conveyed, unsubstantiated complaints. The U.S. Justice Department inspector general has begun a separate probe.

One investigator, Brig. Gen. Jay W. Hood, said last week that the most explosive charge so far -- that guards flushed the Koran Muslim holy book down a toilet -- is not true. The Pentagon tabbed Gen. Hood to conduct a probe into how Islam is treated at the prison in the aftermath of a since-retracted report by Newsweek on the Koran claim.

U.S. officials think the Koran story -- told by a detainee who did not see the purported event -- might be part of an al Qaeda campaign to spread disinformation.

"There have been allegations made by detainees," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters. "We know that members of al Qaeda are trained to mislead and to provide false reports. We know that's one of their tactics that they use. And so I think you have to keep that in mind."

In a raid on an al Qaeda cell in Manchester, British authorities seized al Qaeda's most extensive manual for how to wage war.

A directive lists one mission as "spreading rumors and writing statements that instigate people against the enemy."

If captured, the manual states, "At the beginning of the trial ... the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by state security before the judge. Complain of mistreatment while in prison."

The handbook instructs commanders to make sure operatives, or "brothers," understand what to say if captured.

"Prior to executing an operation, the commander should instruct his soldiers on what to say if they are captured," the document says. "He should explain that more than once in order to ensure that they have assimilated it. They should, in turn, explain it back to the commander."

An example might have occurred in a Northern Virginia courtroom in February.

Ahmed Omar Abul Ali, accused of planning to assassinate President Bush, made an appearance in U.S. District Court and promptly told the judge that he had been tortured in Saudi Arabia, including a claim that his back had been whipped. He is accused of meeting there with a senior al Qaeda leader.

Days later, a U.S. attorney filed a court document saying physicians had examined Ali and "found no evidence of any physical mistreatment on the defendant's back or any other part of his body."

Larry Di Rita, spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, said two Guantanamo commanders told him that al Qaeda detainees are experts in circulating false charges among the more than 500 fighters captured in Afghanistan.

"There are elements within the detainee population that were very effective at getting other detainees agitated about the Koran by making allegations," Mr. Di Rita said. "They particularly focused on the practice of their faith and the Koran being kept from them. So people should not be surprised when detainees come out and make these kinds of allegations. It causes the reactions we've seen."

He added, "None of this is meant to excuse the situation we found when individuals were unfortunately abused at Abu Ghraib. That was wrong."

There already has been one Pentagon review of accusations of abuse at Guantanamo. Vice Adm. Albert T. Church III, the Navy inspector general, released a report in March that found three substantiated closed cases of "minor" abuse in 24,000 interrogations -- one assault and two female guards' making sexually suggestive gestures to detainees.

"It bears emphasis that the vast majority of detainees held by the U.S. in the global war on terror have been treated humanely and that the overwhelming majority of U.S. personnel have served honorably," Adm. Church wrote. [/b]

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JustanObserver
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 10:06 am
McGentrix is right. I'm sure there are some false claims of torture. One of the tactics used in war is to force the enemy to play by their own rules. There is probably very little, if ANY torture by the players on our side.

People just read the pictures wrong. There's no torture. In fact, we spend lots of time with the detainees, just playing with puppies:

http://img80.echo.cx/img80/9563/abu18eh.jpg

http://img80.echo.cx/img80/9600/abu23fi.jpg


Then we spend some time stretching (it was HIS idea to have the underwear on his head, you know)

http://img72.echo.cx/img72/8405/abu30dn.jpg


This LOOKS like he's punching a detainee, but he's really just squishing a bug he saw on the guys lapel.

http://img72.echo.cx/img72/7990/abu52sy.jpg


This guy was actually tickled to death. How were we supposed to know they were so sensitive? Silly Iraqis.

http://img72.echo.cx/img72/184/abu94ad.jpg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 10:11 am
It's good to see the point of the article I posted just zoomed right over your head JAO.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 10:12 am
What pathetic losers we have in leadership. Do they really think that anyone but the must idiotic of American partisans will buy this?

First Abu Ghraib...

Then beating deaths of Afgan detainees...

Then reports suggesting torture from the Red Cross and Amnesty International...

... and continued attempts by the US government to avoid any oversight or accountability.

Now the US wants to play the "they're just terrorists" card basically saying that the victims of torture are voiceless and the accused are the only people with any access to information....

What kind of fool buys this crap?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 10:14 am
WASHINGTON -
President Bush called a human rights report "absurd" for criticizing the United States' detention of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and said Tuesday the allegations were made by "people who hate America."
"It's absurd. It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag.

...

On another foreign policy issue, Bush said he expressed concerns with Russian President
Vladimir Putin about legal proceedings against former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Once the richest man in Russia, Khodorkovsky was convicted Tuesday of fraud and tax evasion and sentenced to nine years in prison following a trail widely denounced as politically motivated.

Bush did not comment directly on the verdict, but said, "it looked like he had been judged guilty prior to having a fair trial."

...

The punchlines just write themselves.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JustanObserver
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:02 am
McGentrix wrote:
It's good to see the point of the article I posted just zoomed right over your head JAO.


Just bustin' your chops man. Its cool.
I get your point, and I agree with it. Like I said (before I got all retarded), I'm sure there are plenty of false reports of torture. But had this odd nagging feeling that you'd put way too much faith in it, as though somehow knowing that Al Q is encouraging detainees to make false claims somehow means that we aren't torturing detainees already.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:06 am
Given the fact that you haven't seen this handbook, and have no information as to what it actually contains, how can you be sure it actually

A: exists

and

B: is from AQ and not some other source?

Answer: You can't, but choose to place your faith in the 'explanation' for all the torture that has been floating around Right-wing sites for a while. It is interesting to watch the memes propagate amongst you guys (as I'm sure it is interesting for you to see our memes propagate).

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:07 am
No, nothing like that at all. I have known many service men and women and they are not all saints. Remember those a-holes in high school? Well, they are still a-holes in the military, just better disciplined. I have no doubt bad things have happened and I regret that they do and did. But to say it happens on the scale many claim it does is just overstating the case.

Gulag? Please. That just tells me the writers have no concept of history or scale. What's next? Will it be a holocaust?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:09 am
Would it have been a holocaust if more people were discussing it/watching out for it at the time? This is the pertinent question, McG.

Ask yourself that, then perhaps you will understand why people are trying to err on the side of caution.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:15 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Given the fact that you haven't seen this handbook, and have no information as to what it actually contains, how can you be sure it actually

A: exists

and

B: is from AQ and not some other source?

Answer: You can't, but choose to place your faith in the 'explanation' for all the torture that has been floating around Right-wing sites for a while. It is interesting to watch the memes propagate amongst you guys (as I'm sure it is interesting for you to see our memes propagate).

Cycloptichorn


How is it that you write this, yet so readily buy into the "Koran book flushing" stories when

A: there is no confirmation it happened

and

B: it's from a prisoner accused of trying to kill American soldiers.

Is this where you "choose to place your faith"?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:30 am
I never would have believed stories such as this before I learned what's been going on in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo and other detention centers we have.

It seems rather odd to me that you don't believe a system which condones/allows torture and killing would balk at desecrating a religious symbol. While I understand that the Koran allegations are important to Muslims, they are small potatoes to me compared to our policies of using electric shocks and dogs, beatings, and downright 'accidental deaths' to get information.

You say, 'There is no confirmation that it happened.' But how could there be? Do you seriously believe those at the top would allow the Pentagon to confirm the truth of these stories publicly? Why, look at the riots caused when just Newsweek alleged such a thing. There is zero chance that the truth of this matter will ever be reported by the US armed forces.

We become more like our enemies every day, do you know that? Scary.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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