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Theocracy? Converging of Religion, Politics and Our Courts

 
 
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 09:14 am
Quote:


Source


Even Moscow Times is talking about it: http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=131199

But, what are we hearing here in the US? This bill was evidently initially introduced as Restoration Act of 2004. It has been updated to Restoration Act of 2005 and is nearing passage.

Any concerns?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 729 • Replies: 15
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 09:17 am
BBB
bm
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 09:44 am
Quote:
SUMMARY AS OF:
3/3/2005--Introduced.

Constitution Restoration Act of 2005 - Amends the Federal judicial code to prohibit the U.S. Supreme Court and the Federal district courts from exercising jurisdiction over any matter in which relief is sought against an entity of Federal, State, or local government or an officer or agent of such government concerning that entity's, officer's, or agent's acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.

Prohibits a court of the United States from relying upon any law, policy, or other action of a foreign state or international organization in interpreting and applying the Constitution, other than English constitutional and common law up to the time of adoption of the U.S. Constitution.

Provides that any Federal court decision relating to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction by this Act is not binding precedent on State courts.

Provides that any Supreme Court justice or Federal court judge who exceeds the jurisdictional limitations of this Act shall be deemed to have committed an offense for which the justice or judge may be removed, and to have violated the standard of good behavior required of Article III judges by the Constitution.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN00520:@@@L&summ2=m&
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 09:50 am
Does Congress even have the right / ability to limit supreme Court jurisdiction?
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 02:23 pm
Constitution
Constitution Restoration Act of 2005 - Amends the Federal judicial code to prohibit the U.S. Supreme Court and the Federal district courts from exercising jurisdiction over any matter in which relief is sought against an entity of Federal, State, or local government or an officer or agent of such government concerning that entity's, officer's, or agent's acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.

Article III vests judicial power in the Supreme Court and in inferior courts established by Congress. This judicial power SHALL EXTEND to all cases and controversies arising under the Constitution.

Article III lists nine categories of cases that fall within federal court jurisdicition. Article III also provides:

"In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make."


Although the Supreme Court's appellate jurisdiction is subject to Congressional "exceptions," the Supreme Court does not interpret this provision to allow Congress to escape constitutional limitations on governmental authority.

"''In cases brought to enforce constitutional rights, the judicial power of the United States necessarily extends to the independent determination of all questions, both of law and fact, necessary to the performance of that supreme function. . . . We think that the essential independence of the exercise of the judicial power of the United States in the enforcement of constitutional rights requires that the Federal court should determine such an issue upon its own record and the facts elicited before it." Crowell v. Benson.


''[T]he Constitution is filled with provisions that grant Congress or the States specific power to legislate in certain areas; these granted powers are always subject to the limitations that they may not be exercised in a way that violates other specific provisions of the Constitution." Williams v. Rhodes, 393 U.S. 23, 29 (1968).

With regard to Congress' power over jurisdiction, ''what such exceptions and regulations should be it is for Congress, in its wisdom to establish, having of course due regard to all the Constitution.'' United States v. Bitty, 208 U.S. 393, 399-400 (1908).

"[T]he exercise by Congress of its control over jurisdiction is subject to compliance with at least the requirements of the Fifth Amendment. That is to say, while Congress has the undoubted power to give, withhold, and restrict the jurisdiction of the courts other than the Supreme Court, it must not so exercise that power as to deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law or to take private property without just compensation.'' Battaglia v. General Motors Corp., 169 F. 2d 254, 257 (2d Cir.), cert. den. 335 U.S. 887 (1948).

In another case concerning the constitutional issue of habeas corpus, the Supreme Court stated:

"On May 3, we granted petitioner's stay application and petition for certiorari. We ordered briefing on the extent to which the provisions of Title I of the Act apply to a petition for habeas corpus filed in this Court, whether application of the Act suspended the writ of habeas corpus in this case, and whether Title I of the Act, especially ยง106(b)(3)(E), constitutes an unconstitutional restriction on the jurisdiction of this Court."

Felker v. Turpin, Warden, 518 U.S. 1051 (1996). If the Court had found that the Act has unconstitutionally suspended the writ of habeas corpus and if Congress had divested the Court of jurisdiction to hear the case, the Court still would have found the Act unconstitutional and would have declared Congress's divestment of jurisdiction to be in violation of the separation of powers doctrine.

Similarly, Congress cannot strip the Court of jurisdiction to hear a constitutional challenge to a government entity's or actor's violation of the Establishment Clause in the First Amendment. How is an "acknowledgement" distinquished from an unconstitutional endorsement? Additionally, God is NOT the sovereign source of law and government, and I resent any government official who proclaims God to be the sovereign source of government and law. Government derives it just powers (authority) from the consent of the governed--from "we the people"--NOT from God.

I'm paraphrasing, but in the Declaration of Independence, our Forefathers wrote that we find these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal and they are endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights and among those rights are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness--and to secure these rights, government is instituted among men and obtains its just powers from the consent of the governed.

Although our founders might have believed that LIBERTY was endowed upon us by the Creator -- the Creator was not necessarily God, but NATURE itself and that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness were endowed through natural law (not SUPERNATURAL law).
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 02:29 pm
squinney wrote:
Does Congress even have the right / ability to limit supreme Court jurisdiction?


This is the question which goes most directly to the heart of this dog and pony show. There are far, far too many competent lawyers sitting in Congress for them not to know that they do indeed have no power to so limit the courts. But if they can pass this, and then the courts strike it down, then a march will have been successfully stolen, and a case made for agitation on behalf of any particular candidate for judicial appointment who can pass what will essentially have become a religious test for office holding. That, too, violates the constitution. This is political dirty fighting of the lowest order.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 02:35 pm
Thank you, Debra. I was hoping you would jump in.

Okay so what about this part:

"Provides that any Federal court decision relating to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction by this Act is not binding precedent on State courts. "

I'm reading this as this Act removes precedent on state courts, and any Supreme decision prior to enactment of this bill is null and void if it relates to an issue now being removed from Supreme Court jurisdiction. For example, States that have previously had cases referred to Supreme Court for such things as posting of Ten Commandments in their courthouse, will no longer have to take note of previous Supreme Court decisions on this matter, AND it won't be able to be heard by the Supreme Court after this.

Is that correct? Are there other more serious implications?
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 02:37 pm
More on jurisdiction stripping as a policy mechanism

Quote:
The good news for opponents of DeLay and Hostettler's tactics is that the Court is unlikely to look kindly upon Congressional actions which prohibit ALL judicial review of the subject. The Court seems likely (based on track record) to allow procedural restrictions on what subordinate courts are allowed to hear, but history would seem to suggest that it will brook little interference on its own rights to determine constitutionality.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 02:38 pm
Set - You believe it's just political agitating? How can the Supreme Court strike it down if they have no jurisdiction?
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 02:48 pm
From Debra's link above:

"...This is another situation where the classical liberal/conservative analysis of the Court isn't very useful. The Rehnquist Court has been a strong advocate of judicial supremacy and the Court's right to be an arbiter, even in situations where one would imagine that a majority of justices would politically align with those trying to limit their power on specific issues."

That answered my next question. Hopefully it will continue to hold true.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 02:54 pm
squinney wrote:
Set - You believe it's just political agitating? How can the Supreme Court strike it down if they have no jurisdiction?


I believe that Miss Law listed their jurisdiction, but just in case:

Article III, Section 2, reads, in part:

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State;--between Citizens of different States,--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

Clause 2: In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.


Properly worded, the Congress might, emphasis on might, get around the jurisdiction of the Supremes. I rather doubt that this would be the case, however.

Yes, i think it serves a dual political purpose. It makes the Congress appear to be working toward a goal which many conservatives would hope to achieve--and if the Supremes strike it down, the Congress still comes out smelling like a rose. The second benefit would be to put pressure on those who might oppose judicial nomination to back down for fear of voter backlash.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 03:55 pm
squinney wrote:
Thank you, Debra. I was hoping you would jump in.

Okay so what about this part:

"Provides that any Federal court decision relating to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction by this Act is not binding precedent on State courts. "

I'm reading this as this Act removes precedent on state courts, and any Supreme decision prior to enactment of this bill is null and void if it relates to an issue now being removed from Supreme Court jurisdiction. For example, States that have previously had cases referred to Supreme Court for such things as posting of Ten Commandments in their courthouse, will no longer have to take note of previous Supreme Court decisions on this matter, AND it won't be able to be heard by the Supreme Court after this.

Is that correct? Are there other more serious implications?


I think you are correct. For instance, in STONE v. GRAHAM, 449 U.S. 39 (1980), the Supreme Court held:

Quote:
A Kentucky statute requiring the posting of a copy of the Ten Commandments, purchased with private contributions, on the wall of each public school classroom in the State has no secular legislative purpose, and therefore is unconstitutional as violating the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. While the state legislature required the notation in small print at the bottom of each display that "[t]he secular application of the Ten Commandments is clearly seen in its adoption as the fundamental legal code of Western Civilization and the Common Law of the United States," such an "avowed" secular purpose is not sufficient to avoid conflict with the First Amendment. The pre-eminent purpose of posting the Ten Commandments, which do not confine themselves to arguably secular matters, is plainly religious in nature, and the posting serves no constitutional educational function.


It would appear that Congress is attempting to legislatively OVERRULE a Supreme Court "rule of decision" in violation of the separation of powers doctrine. Stone v. Graham would no longer be effective or binding on states. (Not really, but ostensibly.) Accordingly, if the CRA is passed, a state school official could post a copy of the Ten Commandments along with an "acknowledgment" of God as the source of our government and law as demonstrated by the Ten Commandments.

In another thread, we were discussing Justice Scalia and his comments made during the Supreme Court arguments in the Ten Commandments case of Van Orden v. Perry. Justice Scalia stated it is a FACT that our government derives its authority from God and that the majority of the people share his belief--and that the Ten Commandments is merely a symbol of that majoritarian belief that the Constitution tolerates. But, Stone v. Graham and other cases make it clear the the Constitution does NOT tolerate government endorsing this view. How can it serve any possible secular purpose for the government to endorse (or acknowledge as an undeniable fact) that our government derives its authority from God?

I firmly believe that the Supreme Court will declare the CRA unconstitutional in its entirety because it gives both state and federal entities and actors the LEGAL RIGHT to violate the establishment clause, forecloses all judicial review, and invalidates all federal case law (First Amendment Jurisprudence) as binding upon the states. The CRA is a clear example of legislation that runs afoul of the separation of powers doctrine.

See: UNITED STATES v. KLEIN, 80 U.S. 128 (1871)
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/80/128.html

After the civil war, Congress passed various laws to regulate the subject of forfeiture, confiscation, or appropriation to public use without compensation, of private property whether real or personal of non-combatant enemies (those who gave aid and comfort to the rebellion). The President pardoned several persons and proclaimed that their property (except as to slaves) would be returned to them. Thereafter, the section of the Congressional Act that "granted authority" to the President to extend pardons was repealed.

To prevent these persons from reclaiming their property, Congress passed a law prohibited Courts from considering presidential pardons as evidence of loyalty, but mandated that the pardons be construed as admissions of disloyalty (thus disentitling the claimants from any right to regain possession of their property) and denying all judicial jurisdiction once it is shown that the claimant is relying on a presidential pardon.

The Court had previously held that the President's constitutional power to grant pardons was not subject to legislation. Therefore, the fact that Congress had legislated on the matter and then repealed the legislation was of no consequence--except to to say "that it is impossible to believe, while the repealed provision was in full force, and the faith of the legislature as well as the Executive was engaged to the restoration of the rights of property promised by the latter, that the proceeds of property of persons pardoned, which had been paid into the treasury, were to be withheld from them."

As to the Congressional enactment concerning the effect of presidential pardons and the Court's jurisdiction, the Court said:

Quote:
But the language of the proviso shows plainly that it does not intend to withhold appellate jurisdiction except as a means to an end. Its great and controlling purpose is to deny to pardons granted by the President the effect which this court had adjudged them to have. The proviso declares that pardons shall not be considered by this court on appeal. We had already decided that it was our duty to consider them and give them effect, in cases like the present, as equivalent to proof of loyalty. It provides that whenever it shall appear that any judgment of the Court of Claims shall have been founded on such pardons, without other proof of loyalty, the Supreme Court shall have no further jurisdiction of the case and shall dismiss the same for want of jurisdiction. The proviso further declares that every pardon granted to any suitor in the Court of Claims and reciting that the person pardoned has been guilty of any act of rebellion or disloyalty, shall, if accepted in writing without disclaimer of the fact recited, be taken as conclusive evidence in that court and on appeal, of the act recited; and on proof of pardon or acceptance, summarily made on motion [80 U.S. 128, 146] or otherwise, the jurisdiction of the court shall cease and the suit shall be forthwith dismissed.

It is evident from this statement that the denial of jurisdiction to this court, as well as to the Court of Claims, is founded solely on the application of a rule of decision, in causes pending, prescribed by Congress. The court has jurisdiction of the cause to a given point; but when it ascertains that a certain state of things exists, its jurisdiction is to cease and it is required to dismiss the cause for want of jurisdiction.

It seems to us that this is not an exercise of the acknowledged power of Congress to make exceptions and prescribe regulations to the appellate power.

The court is required to ascertain the existence of certain facts and thereupon to declare that its jurisdiction on appeal has ceased, by dismissing the bill. What is this but to prescribe a rule for the decision of a cause in a particular way? In the case before us, the Court of Claims has rendered judgment for the claimant and an appeal has been taken to this court. We are directed to dismiss the appeal, if we find that the judgment must be affirmed, because of a pardon granted to the intestate of the claimants. Can we do so without allowing one party to the controversy to decide it in its own favor? Can we do so without allowing that the legislature may prescribe rules of decision to the Judicial Department of the government in cases pending before it?

. . . We must think that Congress has inadvertently passed the limit which separates the legislative from the judicial power.

It is of vital importance that these powers be kept distinct. The Constitution provides that the judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court and such inferior courts as the Congress shall from time to time ordain and establish. The same instrument, in the last clause of the same article, provides that in all cases other than those of original jurisdiction, 'the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction both as to law and fact, with such exceptions and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.'

Congress has already provided that the Supreme Court shall have jurisdiction of the judgments of the Court of Claims on appeal. Can it prescribe a rule in conformity with which the court must deny to itself the jurisdiction thus conferred, because and only because its decision, in accordance with settled law, must be adverse to the government and favorable to the suitor? This question seems to us to answer itself.


Likewise, the CRA is a means to an end. Its great and controlling purpose is to deny to the people any protection of the First Amendment against governmental establishment (endorsement) of religion--a security against infringement the Court has already declared that we have in accordance with the Constitution. Congress has already provided that the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction of the judgments of the Circuit Courts of Appeal. Any mandatory dismissal for want of jurisdiction in an acknowledgment of God case is a legislatively mandated "rule of decision" in favor of the government entity or actor--and in accordance with U.S. v. Klein--is a clear violation of the separation of powers doctrine.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:23 pm
I love the way you explain these things, Debra. Thank you for taking the time and effort. You make it so much easier to understand.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 12:05 am
theocracy
Justice Scalia believes that government is the "minister of God" and has God's authority to wield the sword against the evildoer. Justice Scalia makes it clear that citizens should not be allowed to engage in civil disobedience in the face of seemingly unjust laws. (Because the government rules as the "minister of God," it would be a sin for any one of us to even think the government would enact unjust laws.) It's a citizen's duty is to OBEY because the government rules upon God's authority. Scalia believes it is the tendency of a democracy to obscure the devine authority behind government. He calls upon the PEOPLE OF FAITH to combat against those who would disobey the government based on their mistaken democratic ideals.

Quote:
Justice Antonin Scalia:

"The mistaken tendency to believe that a democratic government, being nothing more than the composite will of its individual citizens, has no more moral power or authority than they do as individuals has adverse effects in other areas as well. It fosters civil disobedience, for example, which proceeds on the assumption that what the individual citizen considers an unjust law—even if it does not compel him to act unjustly—need not be obeyed.

St. Paul would not agree. 'Ye must needs be subject,' he said, 'not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.' For conscience sake. The reaction of people of faith to this tendency of democracy to obscure the divine authority behind government should not be resignation to it, but the resolution to combat it as effectively as possible.

We have done that in this country (and continental Europe has not) by preserving in our public life many visible reminders that—in the words of a Supreme Court opinion from the 1940s—'we are a religious people, whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.' These reminders include: 'In God we trust' on our coins, 'one nation, under God' in our Pledge of Allegiance, the opening of sessions of our legislatures with a prayer, the opening of sessions of my Court with 'God save the United States and this Honorable Court,' annual Thanksgiving proclamations issued by our President at the direction of Congress, and constant invocations of divine support in the speeches of our political leaders, which often conclude, 'God bless America.'

All this, as I say, is most un–European, and helps explain why our people are more inclined to understand, as St. Paul did, that government carries the sword as 'the minister of God,' to 'execute wrath' upon the evildoer."


http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0205/articles/scalia.html

Frightening.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 12:10 am
Scalia's comment: " 'one nation, under God' in our Pledge of Allegiance," is certainly frightening, in that the pledge is no part of government, no enactment of government; in that the original of the pledge did not contain the "under God" phrase, despite being the work of a Protestant minister; in that it is a not unreasonable assumption that he is sufficiently intelligent and well-informed to know these things, and therefore makes the basest of appeals to an hysterical indignation. This is propagandizing at its most disgusting and dangerous level.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 08:27 am
Scalia - American Mullah.

I feel for you, I really do. His comments are mediaeval.
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