Muslim women in Germany: the struggle to survive...

The operative word is "apparently" since you don't know and your
hypothetical theory how muslims conduct themselves in a foreign
country is as hogwash as giving the population access to semiautomatic
weapons.

Out of the ca. 2 million Turks living in Germany, the majority is trying
to integrate without losing their own culture and religion. Fanatics are
found in any religion and any culture, to make Germany's government responsible for a few fanatics is a long shot scraped of from the
bottom of the barrel.

Doesn't sound like a 'few fanatics' to me; it sounds like most of them. And murdering women who act German is the least of it.

From Investors.com:

http://www.investors.com/editorial/issues03.asp?v=5/21


Europe Closing Shop?

Demographics: The population of Europe is set to start shrinking soon. And if recent events there are any indication, that's not a good thing. We may be watching the slow-motion death of a civilization.

The events to which we refer have garnered little notice. Yet each, in its own way, is equally telling about the radical changes in store for Europe ?- and America as well.

On Friday, it was announced in Germany's Hesse state that all schools will soon offer instruction in Islam to Muslim students. Meanwhile, the U.S.-based Weekly Standard reports that a recent confidential government study found a surprising rise in religious expression among Muslims in French public schools.

What's wrong with all this? Maybe nothing. As in the U.S., many nations in Europe have more than one culture and many religions living within their borders. We are all open societies. The problem is what this says about Europe's future.

Europe is changing. The birthrate, now at 1.5 live births per female, is well below the 2.1 required just to replace its population. Birthrates of immigrant Muslim populations there are three times the average. Upshot: By 2020 or so, the European population will fall by more than 4% while the Muslim population will double.

By 2050, just to keep the current worker-to-retiree ratio intact, Europe will have to bring in an estimated 13.5 million immigrants each year. That's 608 million immigrants ?- the equivalent of 10 Germanys ?- over 45 years. Anything less will consign the Continent to unavoidable economic decline.

And where will all these newcomers come from? The same places they've come from in the past ?- Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Pakistan ?- all Muslim. Europe's new nursery.

This has ramifications for America as well. We assume that the Europe we'll be dealing with tomorrow will be much the same as Europe today ?- one that understands and shares our cultural values. The fact is, as Europe slowly becomes more Muslim and less European, it is at risk of dying ?- not as a place, but as a culture.

Europe's faithless Christianity is already moribund. In London, more people worship in mosques each week than in the Church of England's houses of worship. And in France, there are more practicing Muslims than baptized Catholics.

This means the U.S. will increasingly be isolated in world affairs. For example, will a Europe of, say, 50 million Muslims be more hostile to the U.S.' pro-Israel policy? Seems likely.

Europe's politics may also become more unstable. Al-Qaida cells have already been found in Germany, France, Italy and Spain. Politicians in the Netherlands have been assassinated for "insulting" Islam.

Demographic trends also put the U.S. economy at risk. Two years ago, at a much-hyped conference in Spain titled "Islam in Europe," 2,000 European Muslim leaders called on Muslims around the world to help bring about an end to the capitalist system.

As the biggest player in that system, the U.S. faces a delicate task: how to keep an old but estranged friend from committing suicide.

Yet another take on the topic
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1408851/posts

Democracy shuts its eyes as Muslim women are enslaved - (where are human rights liberals on this?)
TOWNHALL.COM ^ | MAY 23, 2005 | ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS

Posted on 05/23/2005 11:37:06 AM PDT by CHARLITE

Throughout Europe, people are standing idly by as Muslim women are being murdered for having the audacity to date, or to not wear their head scarves outside, or to yearn for a life outside of the home. The problem is most pronounced in Germany. Last month six German women were murdered by their Muslim families for flirting with Western culture. Most recently, Hatin Surucu, a twenty-three-year-old Turkish woman who had been forced into marrying her cousin at age 16, was gunned down at a German bus stop. The attack had been planned. The motive-- Surucu had divorced her husband, discarded her religious head scarf, and had begun dating German men. This was too much for her family to bear. So her three brothers killed her, and orphaned her five year old son.

The brothers bragged to their friends about the "honor killing." In their community, they are considered heroes for suppressing their personal emotions and doing the tough work of God?-discharging bullets into their defenseless sister. At least, that's the way they tell the story in certain cloistered Muslim enclaves in Germany, where "honor killings" are becoming an increasingly familiar phenomenon.

And how is mainstream German society responding to this trend? For the most part, they're not. Following World War II, Germans have been conditioned not to criticize other cultures. Afraid of being labeled racists or Nazis, Germans sit passively by while hundreds of Germany's Muslim women are stripped of their basic human rights.

Well, wagging your finger at the practices of another culture might not be politically correct. But what about what's morally correct? What about the thousands of Muslim women who are being enslaved by archaic religious practices? What about the women like Surucu who are being killed for wanting a personality outside of their restrictive religion? At some point the German people must realize that protecting the rights of women like Surucu is not a matter of cultural relativity. It is a matter of universally recognized human rights. The idea of enslaving an entire gender is fundamentally at odds with the basic freedoms embraced by all enlightened, democratic societies. Germany cannot allow the mere threat of charges of cultural or religious insensitivity to undermine the basic democratic values they have worked so hard to achieve in the post war era.

Very simply, the culture of another people does not have to be accepted when it is subhuman! "Honor killings" are subhuman! And human rights activists need to address the situation in no uncertain terms. The practice of killing women for wanting to have lives of their own needs to be held up to public scrutiny. At the same time, the German government needs to engage in outreach programs to Muslim youths. They need to make sure that Muslim kids are not so alienated from mainstream society that they can simply be programmed by Mosques to hate and degrade women. Most of all the government needs to provide sanctuary to oppressed women and girls, instead of allowing Muslim extremists to hide their abuses behind a disingenuous veil of cultural relativity. Democratic societies like Germany can no longer give religious fanatics a free hand to abuse and murder non believers. Such action betrays contempt for the basic human rights which animate any democracy with meaning. In a democracy, we simply cannot allow the word "honor" to be attached to such brutal and archaic religious practices.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS has no idea about what he is writing.

But of this, he has got a lot.

BTW, if you're going for some sort of a prize for ugliest avator, you might want to try this:

Your entire substrata is as valid as my whole substrata. Seriously.

There are four entries for culture at m-w.com, and certainly your local library might have the one or other art and history book.

Re: Yet another take on the topic


One possibility I could think of (for dealing with muslim youths)...

The thing about avatars was meant for CalimityJane

Re: Yet another take on the topic


Spanking in schools is prohibited by law at least since the 60's in Germany. (Worldiwde in all countries, who signed the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which are all countries besides Somalia and the USA.)

I don't think that Russian is a first choice outreach program, but you might have got a different know-how about that than I've experienced.

Re: Yet another take on the topic


The US right now I couldn't speak for. In the US I grew up in in the 50s that picture is pretty close to what would have happened to hoodlums trying to terrorize girls for walking around without scarves on.

Other than that it's not clear to me that the picture comes from Russia. It should read 'Dyen uchitelnitzui' and not 'Dyen uchitelya'. At least from the picture.

Re: Yet another take on the topic


Agreed. So I just can say: the picture is from a website, which is registered in Russia and uses a language with Kyrillic letters.

For some reason, I love gunga's posts. He is so cute.

That's one way of articulating it.

Utterly clueless, but cute.

You've given gunga much much too much credit, OE. But he is cute.