the religion you disagree with most - no comments please

>>>why do ancient religions/ways of lives, have similarities, in particular the belief in a triad ?<<<

Depends on which source you believe. :wink: According to an ancient Middle Eastern document, it's bec. lonnnnng, lonnng ago, in the beginning, all of mankind shared the same (monotheistic) religion (s.th. that scholars in the past couple of decades have echoed).

>>>Man only needs one man-made rule to live a good life on this planet. Treat all living things with respect and dignity<<< Sounds good to me. Only hitch I can think of is: kin ah step on a skorpyun? Kin ah spade the raddlesneck in mah backyord? N thin, thar'z the kwestchun o stuff lahk Ebola: kin ah kill 'at off? How bowt weedz'n kudzu: they chokes off mah veggiez n flahrz n uther favert plants. Whud do ah do with thim? N how do we handl folk who sorely vyerlates othr folk, lahk murdrerz n peddofilz n rapists n sech? (Ah'z frum the stix, ya see, so ah ain't reel shore how ta deel with theze ishooz!)

er name the "ancient middle eastern document" .

whatever its name is, the monotheism bit is basically a product of middle estern thought and i am not surprised to hear that their documents state their belief that once upon a time all religions are monotheirtic.

i wouldnt be surprosed to learn that the helleics, the people of mithraism, the coptics, the asatru, thw wicca, the vikings etc etc all have documents supporting their belief that once upon a time all religions were quite polytheistic.

>>>name the "ancient middle eastern document" <<< the Tanakh

>>> once upon a time all religions were quite polytheistic<<< That would've been after the earliest phase.

how ancient is it... dates?

"after the earliest phase" - as loag as they knew how to count only till one, its unlikely they had more than one god, let alone a full trinity of them,.

Post deleted by original author.

firstlty there are ancient-er schools of thoughts than the one you cited that have been polytheistic, or at least had a trinity. the Enuma Elish, 100% middle eastern, for one, mentioned many gods.


no i am not talking about the n.t. trinity but of a trinity which works more like a triumvirate of gods - say, thor, odin and freya.


read from the section me and Teliesin have been posting and you will easily understand what we are trying to unravel.

Brahmin wrote:



I don't think your definition excludes either Balder or Osiris. balder "defined" Norse myth in that he was destined to come back again, and that the whole world wept to bring him back to life, and Osiris was one of the top Gods of egyptian myth. Both communicated with their fathers, who were the "maker" Gods, much like Jesus, who, as Christianity is only too happy to tell us, is definitely a "messiah".

Now, as to your "real, not mythological" clause, I don't think we can rule out Balder/Osiris as real if we leave Abraham and moses. While I doubt any of them truly existed, if you accept one of them as real in a theological discussion, I'm of the mind that you have to accept them all.

Is there still a point of misunderstanding/contention? Am I still missing one of your points? If so, let me know.


Now, onto your question: I came to the conclusion that, given the mythological occurences, that there must be something about the number three to cause it to resonate with people. After finding non-mythological examples (Three branches of U.s. Gov't, Aristotle's 3 Unities, his three parts of Tragedy, 'three strikes and you're out', etc.), I stumbled across a psychological point: Freud's three components of the psyche: Id, Ego, Super-Ego.

With this "revelation", I re-tooled my theory to include this fact. Now, my hypothesis is that primeval humans, subconsciously recognizing their own nature as triads, gave those same attributes to their more primal (a.k.a., subconscious) anthropomorphications, and, as time drew on, drew the "three" idea into a refined state as the three-in-one, then to the one-who-is-three (different), and soon, I predict, will recognize the unity of nature and worship the 'one' of humanity itself.

Whew. That was a good post. I look forward to your answer, Brahmin.

yes it was... but this is threatenning to go over my head.


i'll try again.


a real person about whom a myth and fables are/may be constructed is DIFFERENT from a purely mythological hero like a osiris.


abraham was not one of the top names of hebrew MYTH. he was a real person supposedly send by god.

if the guy/guys who penned the myth of balder and osiris didnt exist or at least didnt write those myths, then neither would Balder or osiris.

balder and osiris are what and how the nordic and egyptian people made them fit into their (the nordic and coptic) religions - where as muhammed, abraham, moses, jesus, buddha - they defined the religon of their people, not get defined by them.


yes there's something about the number three thats peculiar or fixating to all people. hence all people who made their religions by "observing the world", incorporated this peculiar/fascinating number in their sceme of things or rather sceme of religion.



numbers are often given importance if they are in some way important in nature. hindus have a special place for 108 - because they knew that its the distance of earth to the sun expressed in sun diameters. (108 = distance from earth to sun / sun's dia... to 1% error). and so they have many rituals, myths, fables where 108 plays a role.


is 3 is special or has something charming about it, then it is so, here there and everywhere.


so could that be the reason why so many people who had "observe the world and define a way of life according to what u see" kind of religions, had triads so prominently in the scheme of things ??

Brahmin wrote:


Okay, now I've got you. You're talking about prophets, which I suppose could also be construed as messiahs. Okay. You're right: the prophet/messiah is localized to post-hebraic religion.

However, in regards to your original question of how it fits into "way of life" religions - I don't think it matters. If the person is postulating about the essential nature of the universe; they can come up with God, Gods, etc., but there will still be some form of the number three. Hinduism had Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva; Christianity has the Divine Trinity; Judaism has several "three" myths, including a fascinating one about how Adam actually had three wives, not just one. I'm less familiar with Islam and Buddhism, but I'm willing to bet that there are examples in both of those.

Soooo...Are we on the same wavelength? I feel like we are, but let me know if we aren't. Always a pleasure.

well you pointed out the triads of the post hebraic prophetic/messaic religions too !! and if we manage to find a triad in buddhism and islam, which i dont think have any such concepts, then we'll be in bigger soup.


i mean... we are trying to find out the possible REASONs of the occurance of TRIADS in most, if not all ancient, NON prophetic "observe the world and define a way of life according to what u see" kind of religions. ARN'T WE ?


whether the prophetic religions (and this includes Buddhism and Sikhism too, since though they arnt hebraic, they do have a sort of prophet or founder) have such triads or not is secondary here.


whats moot, is why do almost all the ancient "way of life" - religions have it.


what could be the reason for THAT?

Brahmin wrote:


As I said in an earlier post, I don't think it matters whether or not it is a regular or "way of life" religion. As long as these religions attempt to comment on the divine, essential nature of humanity, they will reflect the triple nature of the human psyche (Id, EGo, Super-Ego) in their teachings, indicating that maybe, if a "God" exists, it is comprised of the whole of humanity.

THAT'S why I think all religions have trinities.

ok. i get you.

and i like your reason better than mine ( i said i think they have trinities, cos they all came about the same way - by observing the same world and thus developing similar "ways of life", based on what they observed ) - because your reason doesnt even require going outside the self.

my reason was they see/saw the same things around them and hence they came up with similar concepts.

yours is that they ARE the same kind of life forms, all of them, all having the same triple nature of the human psyche, and hence they have similar concepts.


so can we now submit our joint thesis to some institute hahah ?

And become rich and famous beyond our wildest imaginations? I am THERE!!!!

It has truly been a pleasure having this conversation with you, brahmin, and I hope to have many more.

ty, welcome and its mutual.

now where's a good publisher and then a trustyworthy bank

You also left out Baha'i, VooDoo and other traditional African religions, the Dream Time belief of the Australian aborigines, the Adat religions of Indonesia and the many religions of Melanesia, Micronesia and Polynesia. And what about those sci-fi sects like scientology and similar "temples". Or Rastafarians? (I am sure there are many more!)

I disagree with all religions and with atheism.

yes.. it just so happens that there are only 10 options.


baha'i temples - http://images.google.com/images?q=bahai%20temple&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi

Now THAT's really intriguing, Paas! Can you elaborate?

Atheism, as the word indicates denies or combats the idea of a higher being, that may or may not be called god. I find it ridiculous to deny or combat something that does not exist, because in the process one gives credence to the idea. Atheism cannot exist without theism, since it is in opposition to the the latter.

The both are totally irrelevant to me.

Ok, now I understand. That logic makes sense!

I found another new religion/sect: the Sky Kingdom founded by Ayah Pin in Malaysia, and I forgot the Falun Gong from China in the above list.