My views on justice and crime

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This thread is in response to a few people that think I am barbaric for advocating the death penalty,and that my sysyem of criminal justice would be to harsh.
It is a carry over from here...
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49969&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=480

I will try and explain,and answer some critics at the same time.

First of all,I am not the barbarian you think I am.
I am NOT advocating the DP for everyone,nor am I advocating sentences that dont fit the crime.

Foxfyre,
You said..."I see an illegal U-turn as a lesser crime and deserving of a lesser penalty than say driving drunk. Shoplifting a sweater at the mall is in a different category than burglarizing a private home and in a hugely different category than an armed robbery. In each case you have a thief and a theft, but reason suggests there should be degrees of penalty of law applied to each."

I 100% agree with you.
An illegal u-turn deserves a traffic ticket,nothing more.
Driving drunk deserves an IMMEDIATE lifetime suspension of your drivers license.
Of Course,that is assuming that nobody gets killed as a result of your actions.

Shoplifting a sweater doesnt deserve jail time,but it would involve some sort of restitution to the store.
What that restitution would be is up to the store.
If you burglarize a home (and survive),then you are liable for the damage you caused,and you also do some jail time (again assuming the homeowner isnt hurt or killed).

The reason I say "IF you survive" is quite simple.
If you burglarize a home,then the homeowner is allowed to use whatever force is neccessary,up to AND including deadly force,to protect his home,family,and property.
And that is WITHOUT fear of civil or criminal prosecution.
What that means is that if you break into a home,and the homeowner shoots you,you CANNOT sue the homeowner,and neither can your survivors if you get killed.

I would eliminate all drug laws,with a few exceptions.
If you wanna get high,then you are welcome to,provided you do it IN YOUR HOME.
No going to work high,no driving while high,nothing.
And,no selling to kids at all.
Violate those laws,and you go to jail.

If you go to jail,then you will be required to work.
If you dont have a skill,then we will teach you one (this applies to nonviolent offenders).
We will teach you a skill,and 3 months before your release,we will set up job interviews for you.
That way,you have a job as soon as you get out.
There would be no parole or probation,because it wouldnt be needed.
If you get sentenced to any time at all,then thats how long you stay in jail.For example,if you get sentenced to one year,then one year to the day after you went in,you would be let oout.
You would not be on parole,because you have completed your whole sentence,neither would you be on probation.

If you want to go to school and further your education while in prison,then we will help you with that also.

Prisons would be required to grow their own food,from vegetables to beef cattle and hogs,and they would be processed right there on site.
What wasnt used would be sold to the community.

Also,if a prisoner decided to go on a hunger strike,for any reason,then so be it.
We would neither allow nor hinder their strike.
We would provide the food everyday,and if a prisoner chooses not to eat it,then so be it.
When they get to weak,thats to bad.
The food is there if they want it.

The DP would be reserved for anyone that commits murder,child molesters,those that cause the death of others while committing a crime (no matter what the crime is or if they intended to kill anyone or not).

Violent criminals would get the same treatment,with one exception.
They would have electronic monitoring for 5 years after their release.

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Quote:

Prisons would be required to grow their own food,from vegetables to beef cattle and hogs,and they would be processed right there on site.
What wasnt used would be sold to the community.

You have never worked anywhere that produces food, have you MM.

Food can't be grown year round. It would require some storage that would increase prison costs drastically.

Trust me, you don't want to give the prisoners you are proposing any tool capable of killing cows or pigs let alone the tools needed to butcher them. You would either have to grow the feed for those animals or purchase it. Neither is a very good solution. It creates a large sprawling complex that is impossible to watch the prisoners on. In one case, you have fields that become easy to hide things in. In the other case you have large storage areas with the same problems.

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parados wrote:

Quote:
Prisons would be required to grow their own food,from vegetables to beef cattle and hogs,and they would be processed right there on site.
What wasnt used would be sold to the community.

You have never worked anywhere that produces food, have you MM.

Food can't be grown year round. It would require some storage that would increase prison costs drastically.

Trust me, you don't want to give the prisoners you are proposing any tool capable of killing cows or pigs let alone the tools needed to butcher them. You would either have to grow the feed for those animals or purchase it. Neither is a very good solution. It creates a large sprawling complex that is impossible to watch the prisoners on. In one case, you have fields that become easy to hide things in. In the other case you have large storage areas with the same problems.

No,I havent.
I just spent the first 15 years of my life on a working cattle ranch.
It would be possible to process feed animals on site,just not by the prisoners.
Even if it increased the costs,it would still be more cost efficient then the present system.

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mysteryman wrote:

parados wrote:
Quote:
Prisons would be required to grow their own food,from vegetables to beef cattle and hogs,and they would be processed right there on site.
What wasnt used would be sold to the community.

You have never worked anywhere that produces food, have you MM.

Food can't be grown year round. It would require some storage that would increase prison costs drastically.

Trust me, you don't want to give the prisoners you are proposing any tool capable of killing cows or pigs let alone the tools needed to butcher them. You would either have to grow the feed for those animals or purchase it. Neither is a very good solution. It creates a large sprawling complex that is impossible to watch the prisoners on. In one case, you have fields that become easy to hide things in. In the other case you have large storage areas with the same problems.

No,I havent.
I just spent the first 15 years of my life on a working cattle ranch.
It would be possible to process feed animals on site,just not by the prisoners.
Even if it increased the costs,it would still be more cost efficient then the present system.

You could have the non-violent offenders work on the animal processing.

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Prison farms of the type you describe were once common throughout the United States and Canada. They were abandoned because the respective States and Provinces found them too expensive to operate--it was far cheaper to contract food services with local vendors, which is good for the local economy.

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mysteryman wrote:

No,I havent.
I just spent the first 15 years of my life on a working cattle ranch.
It would be possible to process feed animals on site,just not by the prisoners.
Even if it increased the costs,it would still be more cost efficient then the present system.

You worked on a ranch but you think it would make a good prison site? How many acres was this "ranch?" How many people actually worked on it?

Most farms run by only one farmer are almost a full square mile. A feed lot of several hundred cattle only requires a few persons to work it. A ranch, if you really spent time on a real ranch, would be several thousand acres. Most prisons are several hundred people. The land required to keep them busy growing food would be cost prohibitive.

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Baldimo wrote:

You could have the non-violent offenders work on the animal processing.

Most states try to seperate violent from non-violent prisoners in their prison system. Cheaper to do it that way. You need less supervision of non violent offenders.

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Nothing wrong with the idea of keeping prisoners working on productive tasks. However I have heard of situations where commercial competitors complain that the prisons can produce the goods cheap. Not sure of my response to that one but MM I think is right in wanting prisoners to work. The rehabiliation ideas are also good. You know many prisoners have no idea of how to get a job and training them to do so, helping with job interview training and so on are good ideas. My own jurisdiction could do with some of that.

Executing child molesters is not good. They'll just kill their victim to enhance their chances of getting away with it. If they get caught, well, same penalty so nothing lost.

Some interesting ideas MM.

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Re: My views on justice and crime

mysteryman abreviated by my editing wrote:

Driving drunk deserves an IMMEDIATE lifetime suspension of your drivers license.

Sounds fair.

Shoplifting a sweater would involve some sort of restitution.
What that restitution would be is up to the store.

I think I'd prefer it if such restitution were impartially determined by a judge in good standing of the community and a jury of my peers rather than a potentially biased corporate entity. That's just me though.

If you burglarize a home then you are liable for the damage you caused,and you also do some jail time.

Sounds fair.

If you burglarize a home,then the homeowner is allowed to use whatever force is neccessary.

If it can be proven that the criminal broke into the home, yes. I'm not talking major third degree here, but that could be abused if not treated with a little bit of care

I would eliminate all drug laws,with a few exceptions.
Do it IN YOUR HOME.
No going to work high,no driving while high,nothing.
No selling to kids.

I like those ideas

If you go to jail,then you will be required to work.

Fine, fine. As long as you work for the government.

There would be no parole or probation,because it wouldnt be needed.

Uuuuhhhh... there are good reasons for parole and probation. I'm with you in broad themes but there would be some fine print on this clause.

Prisons would be required to grow their own food.

... Sure, why not. Don't really see the point but what the hell. Sounds like fun.

Also,if a prisoner decided to go on a hunger strike,for any reason,then so be it.

Press would eat that up (forgive the pun) but I agree.

The DP would be reserved for anyone that commits murder

Sure, sounds fine.

Violent criminals would get the same treatment,with one exception.
They would have electronic monitoring for 5 years after their release.

Why only five years?

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My views on justice and crime

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