Bush Lied to the American People...

rayban1 wrote:

You seem to have fallen victim to the adage that the end NEVER justifies the means.

The problem isn't in fact the justification of either means or end but a question of due procedure. This isn't a matter of morality but one of identity.

America is a democratic nation, or at least supposed to be. That means the country being run by its people, which requires accountability from the high offices to which other citizens can rise. The president lying to the people of his country is an issue and a violation of the integrity we would hope to see from such a lofty position.

If we can not trust the people to make the right decisions after being told the truth then how can we look at the world and say "we are a democracy"? If the people would make the right decisions after being told the truth then shouldn't they be consulted?

Don't get me wrong, I think democracy is a complete hoodwink and wouldn't trust "the people" to decide on a flavour of icecream. But for a people who hold it as their system of government, the people being misinformed should be a serious issue.

Not something to which people are told to grow up and ignore.

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Nicely put Marquis - I don't agree with all of it but nicely put.

Anyway Bush and Iraq - it was a pack of lies. I think this has been referred to on another thread but the doctrine of completeness compels me:

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

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not2know wrote:

The great mass of people ... will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.

Adolf Hitler (1889-1945)

Nothing in this thread has provided the slightest evidence of a Bush lie, certainly neither his statement that they attacked us because they hate our freedom nor a quotation from Hitler. It's really just your lie to point to what, for all you know, might be an honest statement of his opinion and call it a lie.

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That's if you ignore the evidence from Whitehall Brandon.

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goodfielder wrote:

That's if you ignore the evidence from Whitehall Brandon.

So he believed that invasion was necessary for the good of the West, but went through the motions of giving Hussein a chance and allowing lesser measures to run their course first. How in the world is that a lie? Furthermore, that is not what the original poster is presenting as a lie.

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Brandon if you're happy with your elected representatives lying to you then good luck. Mine lied to my country and I'm still bloody furious but no matter, to each their own.

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goodfielder wrote:

Brandon if you're happy with your elected representatives lying to you then good luck.

One presumes that if you could demonstrate a lie, you would. It's just another liberal wet dream with no substance.

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Well you could read the information carefully and critically and comment on it or you can pull the sheets over your head Brandon. Reading some comment from you on the information itself would be good - but probably too much to expect.

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goodfielder wrote:

Well you could read the information carefully and critically and comment on it or you can pull the sheets over your head Brandon. Reading some comment from you on the information itself would be good - but probably too much to expect.

Must I explain that if you post an accusation, you are responsible, at least when requested, to also post evidence to support it? It is kind of weird to post a claim that the president of my country is a liar, and when asked to support it, admonish me for not doing my research.

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At the very least - deception

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Brandon9000 wrote:

goodfielder wrote:
Well you could read the information carefully and critically and comment on it or you can pull the sheets over your head Brandon. Reading some comment from you on the information itself would be good - but probably too much to expect.

Must I explain that if you post an accusation, you are responsible, at least when requested, to also post evidence to support it? It is kind of weird to post a claim that the president of my country is a liar, and when asked to support it, admonish me for not doing my research.

I won't read it out to you Brandon. It's not a session with "My Pet Goat"

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Does anyone remember what the original post on the lie is? Everything except this is being addressed and debated.

Quote:

Bush Lied to the American People about 9/11 Terrorists' Motives
Bush's lie hides from many Americans the fact that we were attacked by Al-Qaeda because of specific foreign polices and not because we are the"brightest beacon of freedom and opportunity"

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MdC wrote:

<Don't get me wrong, I think democracy is a complete hoodwink and wouldn't trust "the people" to decide on a flavour of icecream. But for a people who hold it as their system of government, the people being misinformed should be a serious issue.>

Oh really.........Hitler, Castro, Stalin and other totalitarins have/had the same mindset. The people are stupid and we the elites must tell them what flavor ice cream they like................ Laughing

and rolling on the floor holding my sides.

I would hope you are not an American and will never succeed in obtaining a visa to visit this country. However , your total honesty is to be commended because now I know enough about your twisted thinking to ignore anything else you might try to contribute.................

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rayban

You might want to get yourself educated as to the ideas of Strauss and his followers ought of Chicago (the Kristols, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, etc etc). The idea of an elite running the show, even while convincing the electorate (who are not up to the task of self-governance - the 'unthinking herd') through lies and media control, that real democracy is in place...that idea sits front and center in Straussian neoconservatism.

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Sure does. And we know who all love Strauss.....

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blatham wrote:

rayban

You might want to get yourself educated as to the ideas of Strauss and his followers ought of Chicago (the Kristols, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, etc etc). The idea of an elite running the show, even while convincing the electorate (who are not up to the task of self-governance - the 'unthinking herd') through lies and media control, that real democracy is in place...that idea sits front and center in Straussian neoconservatism.

There is truth in what you say but a certain amount of elitism is in evidence in all political ideology be it on the right or the the left. It was interesting the you used "the unthinking herd" which I believe more accurately describes the belief from the left because you possess such disdain for the electorate.

On the other hand the elitism from the right is more pragmatic because of the knowledge that most voters are too busy earning enough money to educate their children or to buy nicer home in a more desirable neighborhood........but.......when aroused by one or more issues the voters tend to focus and will generally respond to the more practical argument which appeals to their common sense, or threatens their way of life. A good example was our recent presidential election.........a very high percentage(I refer ot those on the fence) of the electorate envisioned the indecisiveness, and twisted trust in multilateralism of John Kerry to be a threat to their way of life and voted more against him than for GW. Indeed each segment of the electorate will exhibit somewhat different motives but whatever the motive the ultimate factor was common sense coupled with a sense that GW would not hesitate to make decisions that were in the best interests of this country.......in the case of John Kerry this was in doubt.

There is no doubt that your reference to elitism does exist but the overall objective of promoting the interests of this country is founded in pragmatism and not idealistic "pie in the sky". If the country prospers and grows then the citizens are rewarded for backing the right candidate. It's a simple strategy but not simplistic.

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goodfielder wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
Well you could read the information carefully and critically and comment on it or you can pull the sheets over your head Brandon. Reading some comment from you on the information itself would be good - but probably too much to expect.

Must I explain that if you post an accusation, you are responsible, at least when requested, to also post evidence to support it? It is kind of weird to post a claim that the president of my country is a liar, and when asked to support it, admonish me for not doing my research.

I won't read it out to you Brandon. It's not a session with "My Pet Goat"

No matter how you rationalize it, posting an accusation and being unable to support it doesn't constitute winning a debate. It isn't just a figment of my imagination to believe that in debate, the one who makes a claim must be prepared to support it with evidence. I now simply presume that you cannot.

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Bookmark

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Well, I've searched for some time now and can't find any evidence that we were attacked because they hated our freedom.

Has anyone seen that stated, printed or reported by anyone other than Bush admin?

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squinney wrote:

Well, I've searched for some time now and can't find any evidence that we were attacked because they hated our freedom.

Has anyone seen that stated, printed or reported by anyone other than Bush admin?

Well honey you've hit on the point haven't you? For the right, the only qualifier necessary for a thing to be true is for the bush administration to say so. No further proof is required. It's like religious faith to the right.

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Bush Lied to the American People...

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