US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

malignancy = people who mass murder civilians and people who are accomplices of people who mass murder civilians.

malignancy pursues the doctrine of DAMD (i.e., Die And Make Die).

Lovers-of-liberty pursue the doctine of LALL (i.e., Live And Let Live).

malignancy must be exterminated before they exterminate lovers-of-liberty.

No one has a god-given-right to any area of the earth. One's rights to an area of the earth are governed by the prevailing human rule of law in that area.

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eight reasons for global jihad. These include the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Spain, "Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Sicily, Ethiopia, Russian Turkistan and Chinese Turkistan. . . Even parts of France reaching 90 kilometers outside Paris."
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I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped
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No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.
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An interview with a soldier back from Iraq.
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Quote:

A Soldier Speaks: Zechariah

By Celina R. De Leon, AlterNet. Posted August 4, 2005.
...
How do you feel about the need for an exit strategy now?

I still feel just as strong about the need for an exit strategy as before. We are not going to win this war. The longer we are there, the more people are going to join the fight against us. We asked detainees why? Most said because they had lost a family member. So, if we figure that most families are three to four people and every time we kill one insurgent, they recruit two to three new members that may have not hated the U.S. until they lost a family member by their hands. It's the same as if they invaded here. Most households have a weapon in the house. That's millions and millions of weapons and people that are willing to protect their family and country from foreign invaders. They won't give up until we are all gone off of their soil.

About 35 Iragi civilians are murdered daily by malignancy. About 3 US military are killed per day by malignancy.

So, Zechariah's allegation implies: When Iraqis lose family members in this war they retaliate by joining malignancy and murdering about 35 Iraqi civilians daily -- murdering the family members of other Iraqis -- and killing about 3 US military daily.

Fo that reason, I think Zechariah's claim is insane.


It is EXACTLY the same as if we had been invaded.

So your allegation by implication is: If Americans, residing in a state with the same population as Iraq, were to lose family members in an equivalent war in their state, they would retaliate by murdering about 35 of their fellow civilians daily and killing about 3 of their enemy's military daily.

We create our own enemies. This means the conflict cannot be expected to draw to a close through military means, because we can't possibly kill ENOUGH of the enemy; truly a hydra poised against our interests.

I agree that the Iraq war will not be drawn to a successful conclusion by US military means alone. It will require at least the following:
1. The military means of every functioning democracy in the world must participate directly with the US military in disabling the malignancy.
2. Malignancy captured by that military must either be incarcerated for life without trial or be exterminated.
3. Sanctuaries must be provided every Iraqi civilian to prevent them being murdered by malignancy.
4. A functioning Iraqi democracy operating under a Constitution of their own design must be secured against malignancy by the government of that democracy.
5. All of us must abandon the illusion that malignancy's primary goals are anything other than dictatorship, and extermination or supression of all lovers-of-liberty.

Cycloptichorn

Matthias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publisher Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT, Germany's largest daily newspaper, against the timid reaction of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat.

EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE (Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, Axel Springer, AG)

A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.

Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement...

How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.

I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time".

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.

While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation... Or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists, to understand and forgive".

These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house. Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice.

Matthias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publisher Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT, Germany's largest daily newspaper, against the timid reaction of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat.

EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE (Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, Axel Springer, AG)

A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.

Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement...

How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.

I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time".

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.

While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation... Or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists, to understand and forgive".

These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house. Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 300 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush.

this op-ed was indeed published in November 2004 in "Die Welt", but the guy's name is Mathias Döpfner, not Matthias Dapfner.

And this paragraph is misrepresented:

Quote:

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

The original reads:

Quote:

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 300 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush.

Somebody obviously inserted the sentence "Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program."

original here

I know you believe terrorists don't lie and the US government does. I know that when terrorists say the US and UK are stealing Iraqi oil, you believe the terrorists. I know you believe that the US has been stealing from ME countries throughout their history. I know you believe that the US' role in attempting to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure, or any effort by the US over in Iraq, is motivated primarily by greed. I know you blame the US because Saddam starved a lot of his people to death because of his own action. I know you don't like Isreal, one of the US' biggest allies in the world.

I know you probably consider yourself a patriot of the highest order because of all of these beliefs.

The Christian Science Monitor reported on other allegations of corrpution in Iraq leveled against companies, including a "report by special inspector Stuart Bowen [which] found that $8.8 billion dollars had been disbursed from Iraqi oil revenue by US administrators to Iraqi ministries without proper accounting."

Ticomaya wrote:

I know you believe terrorists don't lie and the US government does. I know that when terrorists say the US and UK are stealing Iraqi oil, you believe the terrorists. I know you believe that the US has been stealing from ME countries throughout their history. I know you believe that the US' role in attempting to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure, or any effort by the US over in Iraq, is motivated primarily by greed. I know you blame the US because Saddam starved a lot of his people to death because of his own action. I know you don't like Isreal, one of the US' biggest allies in the world.

I know you probably consider yourself a patriot of the highest order because of all of these beliefs.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0407/dailyUpdate.html

Quote:

The Christian Science Monitor reported on other allegations of corrpution in Iraq leveled against companies, including a "report by special inspector Stuart Bowen [which] found that $8.8 billion dollars had been disbursed from Iraqi oil revenue by US administrators to Iraqi ministries without proper accounting."

Quote:

Matthias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publisher Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT, Germany's largest daily newspaper, against the timid reaction of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat.

EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE (Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, Axel Springer, AG)

A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

...

this op-ed was indeed published in November 2004 in "Die Welt", but the guy's name is Mathias Döpfner, not Matthias Dapfner.

Gazooks, boys and girls! If I knew who the transcriber was, I would berate her/him personally for this horrendous error. Leaving the letter "t" out of the name of "Matthias" is bad enough, but to substitute the letter "a" for the letter "ö" in the name "Döpfner" is absolutely intolerable.

And this paragraph is misrepresented:

Quote:

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

The original reads:

Quote:

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 300 000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush.

Kids, substituting the number "500 000" (the more accurate number) for the number "300 000" is iresponsible.

Somebody obviously inserted the sentence "Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program."

Children, surely you understand that by the transcriber's insertion of that sentence, regardless of the fact that it is a valid sentence, without first obtaining the author's written and notarized permission, renders the entire article unfit for further discussion. The thesis of the article is thereby forever purged from meriting honest and rational examination.

I'm not sure I have properly gleaned the point you were trying to make here, revel. Do you think that if US administrators under the CPA had permitted $8.8 billion dollars to be disbursed to Iraqi ministries "without proper accounting" (not sure what that means exactly) that constitutes "stealing" by the US?

Is it your claim that the revenues were diverted, improperly, to the US government or its interests, and not to Iraqi interests?

One of the main benefactors of the Iraq funds was the Texas-based firm Halliburton, which was paid more than $1 billion out of those funds to bring in fuel for Iraqi civilians.

The monitoring board said despite repeated requests it had not been given access to U.S. audits of contracts held by Halliburton, which was once run by Vice President Dick Cheney, and other firms that used the development funds.

Is it your claim that that is what your quoted article is suggesting?

Do you realize that for the most part (striking any reference to God, of course), had we not known that message was from Zawahri, it could be attributed to many liberals in the US?

Let me, uninvited, clarify what I believe Revel's point to be, since you seem to be unable to understand simple English.

Yaknow, what's your f*cking problem, Tico? Seriously. You don't post in this thread for a month, and then rush in and start calling people terrorists. Grow up.

Cycloptichorn

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." Dick Cheney Speech to VFW National Convention, Aug. 26, 2002.

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." George W. Bush Speech to U.N. General Assembly, Sept. 12, 2002.[ii]

"We know they have weapons of mass destruction … There isn't any debate about it." [It is] beyond anyone's imagination" that U.N. inspectors would fail to find such weapons if they were given the opportunity. Donald Rumsfeld, September 2002.[iii]

"If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world." Ari Fleischer Press Briefing, Dec. 2, 2002.[iv]

"We know for a fact that there are weapons there." Ari Fleischer Press Briefing, Jan. 9, 2003.[v]

"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more." Colin Powell Remarks to U.N. Security Council, Feb. 5, 2003.[vi]

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have." George W. Bush Radio Address, Feb. 8, 2003.[vii]

"So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad?... I think our judgment has to be clearly not." Colin Powell Remarks to U.N. Security Council, March 7, 2003.[viii]

"Does Saddam now have weapons of mass destruction? Sure he does. We know he has chemical weapons. We know he has biological weapons. . . Defense Policy Board Chair, Richard Perle, speaking to a Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee hearing, March, 2003. [ix]

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." George W. Bush Address to the Nation, March 17, 2003. [x]

"Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly... all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes." Ari Fleisher Press Briefing, March 21, 2003[xi]

"There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction." Gen. Tommy Franks Press Conference, March 22, 2003. [xii]

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." Donald Rumsfeld ABC Interview, March 30, 2003. [xiii]

"I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there " Colin Powell Remarks to Reporters, May 4, 2003. [xiv]

You apparently think the system must be perfect, and if it falls short, the terrorists are correct and the US is "stealing" the Iraq money.

You also think that the only reason the US invaded Iraq was because of oil.

You think that if Haliburton received money, that constitutes "stealing."

No, that's not my problem. My problem is with certain anti-war liberals who puff up when I point out that they think like terrorists, and then accuse me of calling them terrorist.

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

George W. Bush, May 29, 2003

Gosh, blatham .... your "historical" account neglected to include any Democrats or liberals who stated Saddam had WMD. Wonder why? Surely you aren't exhibiting any .... <gasp> ... bias.

Or perhaps the liberal website you culled that from didn't provide them for you?

Tico wrote:

You apparently think the system must be perfect, and if it falls short, the terrorists are correct and the US is "stealing" the Iraq money.

Not just the US, but other Iraqis, massively. The system doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be better than losing more than 8 BILLION DOLLARS for Christ's sake! We allowed it to go on and did nothing. Seeing as WE, the CPA, were responsible for the money, and WE can't account for it, then yes, there is undoubtedly a lot of 'stealing' involved.

Tico wrote:

You also think that the only reason the US invaded Iraq was because of oil.

Pfff, you know better than this dreck; oil was just part of the reason we invaded.

Tico wrote:

You think that if Haliburton received money, that constitutes "stealing."

I believe that if they overbill the US or Iraq, then yes, they are committing fraud and stealing. I believe that this has been shown to have occured with Halliburton on more than one occassion. I believe that there is no good reason to keep auditors from looking at contracts unless you have something to hide; don't you?

Tico wrote:

No, that's not my problem. My problem is with certain anti-war liberals who puff up when I point out that they think like terrorists, and then accuse me of calling them terrorist.

Your problems are far too many to list here; but I may point out that it isn't Liberals who share the same Religious and Moral zealotry with the terrorists; it is Conservatives, specifically, Conservative Republicans. While we may understand their goals better, Conservative Republicans SHARE many of the same goals as the terrorists; with the Religion flipped, of course.

Cycloptichorn

Ticomaya wrote:

Gosh, blatham .... your "historical" account neglected to include any Democrats or liberals who stated Saddam had WMD. Wonder why? Surely you aren't exhibiting any .... <gasp> ... bias.

Or perhaps the liberal website you culled that from didn't provide them for you?

No one pays any attention to what Democrats or liberals say, Tico, it would be pointless to include those statements which were probably made at a time when they were trying to distract the nation from the important business of finding out if Bill Clinton made any illegal gains from Whitewater. The above as posted by blatham reflect the most up to date claims made by the most informed administration ever.

Joe(gonna pay for the whole war with oil revenues)Nation