June 13, 2005
Middle East votes for jihad
Tiny minority of extremists update. "The Mideast casts its votes for extremists," from the New York Daily News, with thanks to EPG:
Winds of Democratic change are blowing through the Middle East - and sending shivers through the White House.
Fed up with corruption and determined to oust governments seen as U.S. lackeys, newly minted voters in key Arab countries have propelled card-carrying terrorists and Islamic extremists into positions of power.
In Gaza, the militant Hamas organization won 77 out of 118 seats in recent local elections.
In Lebanon's first vote free of Syrian domination, the Iranian-backed Islamic militant group Hezbollah swept the polls in the southern part of the country.
In Egypt, the radical and often violent Muslim Brotherhood has shifted tactics and started infiltrating the pro-democracy drive trying to oust longtime President Hosni Mubarak - a key American ally.
"The key point here is that democracy in the Middle East is about anti-Americanism right now," said David Phillips of the Council on Foreign Relations.
In Beirut, Hezbollah spokesman Hussein Naboulsi said they know all they need to know about democracy.
"We don't need America to teach us," he said. "The turnout [at the recent election] was bigger than the elections four years ago. People wanted to say, 'Look, we're against American interference in our affairs, we're against the American project and we will stand with the resistance.'"
The Hamas and Hezbollah victories place President Bush in a tough spot. On one hand, he has championed democracy as a cure-all for this troubled region. On the other, he adamantly refuses to deal with terrorists.
"The problem [for Bush] is that these elections aren't skewing public opinion, they're reflecting public opinion, which is decidedly against American policies in the region," said Peter Singer of the Brookings Institution.
cicerone imposter wrote:June 13, 2005
Middle East votes for jihad
Tiny minority of extremists update. "The Mideast casts its votes for extremists," from the New York Daily News, with thanks to EPG:
...
The rest of the article says zero about the titlle of this article: "The Middle East votes for jihad."
The rest of the article merely discusses how so-called extremists are trying democracy instead of mass murder of civilians to get what they want. That's a big improvement! Don't you think!
Quote:"The problem [for Bush] is that these elections aren't skewing public opinion, they're reflecting public opinion, which is decidedly against American policies in the region," said Peter Singer of the Brookings Institution.
Seems to me that democratic elections are in harmony with "American policies in the region."
Only if after being elected they resort to the mass murder of civilians, can it be truly said they are "decidedly against American policies in the region."
As soon as the terrorists in Iraq take the same approach, the USA can leave Iraq happily.
ican, Did you know that it's almost 2006? What are you doing posting stuff from 2001?
nuther brain fart I imagin
icant, If you are unable to understand simple English in my previous post, Post: 1702346, I'm afraid that only speaks to your ignorance.
You need to go back to school and study English as a language.
This is the key sentence of that article: "Fed up with corruption and determined to oust governments seen as U.S. lackeys, newly minted voters in key Arab countries have propelled card-carrying terrorists and Islamic extremists into positions of power."
That is followed by examples of how fundamentalist Muslims are taking over governments in the Middle East.
All the above is followed by: "Winds of Democratic change are blowing through the Middle East - and sending shivers through the White House."
When Will We Fight New Shiite Army We're Building in Iraq?
When Will We Fight The New Shiite Army We're Building in Iraq?
Cenk Uygur
12.02.2005
We do the damnedest things. We sell weapons to Saddam in the 1980's and then we turn around and invade Iraq in 2003 because we think he might still have those weapons. We build up a tough Muslim army in Afghanistan in the 1980's to fight the Russians and we wind up invading Afghanistan in 2001 to fight that same Muslim force ourselves.
And now for the latest installment, we build up a Shiite army in Iraq only to fight them ...
You can fill in the blank. I'm not sure when we will go to war with the army we are so vigorously training right now in Iraq. But if history is any judge, what is certain is that we will fight them at some point.
Outside of historic generalities, there is ample reason to believe that there are specific reasons why we are likely to fight this Iraqi army. First, the so-called Iraqi army we're training right now is comprised mainly of Shiites and Kurds. They are fighting the Sunni insurgency, so the presence of Sunnis in the Iraqi army is limited and mostly for show.
Soon, the Kurds will split off into their own country and take their soldiers with them. If you asked the Kurds in the Iraqi army whether they would side with the new government of Iraq or with an independent Kurdistan in case of a conflict, you would have approximately three Kurds who would remain loyal to the Iraqi government. The rest of the peshmarga (the 100,000 strong Kurdish militia) would thank us very much for the extra training and weapons and go fight for something they actually believe in.
If you think I'm wrong and you think that the Kurds will remain loyal to a country where they would be a significant minority, then how do you explain the oil deal they announced this week? They've agreed to a separate oil exploration deal with a Norwegian company, without consulting the central Iraqi government or getting their consent. Do you think they're going to share the revenues from that deal with the rest of Iraq?
I hope you're not that naïve. But if you are, the prime minister of the Northern Kurdish regime will disabuse you of that notion real quick. Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani explains, "there is no way Kurdistan would accept that the central government will control our resources." Well, there you have it then.
So, that leaves the Shiites, who are the only people invested in this current government because they are the only ones who would have true power in this "democracy." They have 60% of the population. They can win every election and make every decision by themselves. Power sharing is a wonderful ideal, so was communism. Except it turns out people don't work to the according to their abilities and take according to their needs -- they take as much as possible for their own good. And they also don't voluntarily give up power or oil revenue to a different ethnicity, especially one that has been oppressing them for centuries.
The minute we leave Iraq, the Shiites are going to take everything. The Sunnis will be powerless to stop them. Why do you think they're using force now? It's because they don't have any other bargaining chips. They are a permanent minority, they have almost no oil in their territory and they are disfavored by the US. They have no other means of acquiring power other than through the use of force.
So, will the new war start when the Shiites start butchering the Sunni minority so that we have to re-invade the country to fight the army we're currently training? Or do you think it will be when they join forces with their fellow Shiites in Iran and support Iran's new nuclear program?
If the Iraqi Shiites work with the Iranian Shiites to build weapons of mass destruction and we have to fight the army we built for them because they have WMD, I think we will have broken the record for irony.
Not irony, BBB, stupidity.
cicerone imposter wrote:This is the key sentence of that article: "Fed up with corruption and determined to oust governments seen as U.S. lackeys, newly minted voters in key Arab countries have propelled card-carrying terrorists and Islamic extremists into positions of power."
This "key sentence" says zero about the title of this article: "The Middle East votes for jihad."
Instead it says: how so-called extremists are trying democracy instead of mass murder of civilians to get what they want. That's a big improvement! Don't you think?
ican711nm-
Your quotes are quite good--Good Research. It's a shame that everyone will not read the quotes carefully.
You may be familiar with the writings of Bernard Lewis, Ican.
He is the foremost US interpreter of Islam who has written extensively about Islam. Lewis points out that Islam on the whole is a beneficent Religion but that the fringe radicals do indeed believe in the re-establishment of the Caliphate which, in their eyes, would entail the submission of the entire world to the doctrine of Allah- Islam.
It's a pity that more people do not understand the meanings of your quotes or the explanations given by Lewis.
We are at war with a group which is, although not possessing the Luftwaffe or the V-2 Rocket, may be as dangerous since, like the Japanese Kamakazi, they are willing to act as human bombs.
ican711nm wrote:Phase 4, "the downfall." By 2013, al Qaeda will control the Persian Gulf, and all its oil, as well as most of the Middle East.
So the agency that is responsible for 9/11 would be a government power, with citizens who openly support it?
Puts me in the mood for a good old-fashioned Hiroshima-style barbeque.
Re: US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0
Oops.....
Quote:From the Encyclopedia Britannica 2005 book of the year:
http://0-www.search.eb.com.library.uor.edu/eb/article-234819
"The war in Iraq continued to take an extraordinary toll on archaeological sites in the cradle of civilization. Despite the adoption in 2003 of UN Security Council Resolution 1483, which banned the trade in looted Iraqi antiquities, a lawless environment and weak border controls fomented the continued plundering of archaeological sites. Particularly hard hit were numerous 5,000-year-old Sumerian city-states--among them Umma, Isin, Adab, Zabalam, and Shuruppak--in the southern Iraqi province of Dhi Qar. Further destruction of sites came as a direct result of the war, such as the installation of a U.S. military base atop the remains of the ancient city of Babylon. The collapse of substantial portions of the Babylonian temples of Nabu and Ninmah, which dated to the 6th century BC, was attributed to helicopter activity."
cicerone imposter wrote:icant, You are dense.
ABSENT EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, your allegations are at best your baseless opinions, and at worst your compulsive fantasies.
Mortkat wrote:ican711nm-
Your quotes are quite good--Good Research. It's a shame that everyone will not read the quotes carefully.
Thank you.
You once asked me something like: Do I understand the left's mentality or motivation. My answer is: I have my hypotheses about that just like you do. However, I'm disinclined to discuss these hypotheses of mine here. Rather my self-imposed mission here is to deny them the excuse "but nobody told me" when they eventually are confronted with the overwhelming reality of the falsity of their doctrines.
You may be familiar with the writings of Bernard Lewis, Ican.
He is the foremost US interpreter of Islam who has written extensively about Islam. Lewis points out that Islam on the whole is a beneficent Religion but that the fringe radicals do indeed believe in the re-establishment of the Caliphate which, in their eyes, would entail the submission of the entire world to the doctrine of Allah- Islam.
Yes, I read Lewis's "What Went Wrong" plus an article or two he wrote in the WSJ.
It's a pity that more people do not understand the meanings of your quotes or the explanations given by Lewis.
More is the pity that they do not want to understand these things.
We are at war with a group which is, although not possessing the Luftwaffe or the V-2 Rocket, may be as dangerous since, like the Japanese Kamakazi, they are willing to act as human bombs.
I agree! 10 to 20 thousand, recruiting, dedicated suicidal murderers of civilians is potentially as big a threat to humanity as the Hitlerists, who murdered millions of civilians, the Hirohitists who murdered 10s of millions of civilians, and the Stalinists who murdered over 100 million civilians.
Abetting that threat to humanity is the widespread, aggressively promoted, damn silly, leftist doctrine that current USA efforts to terminate that suicidal murderous threat are its causes.
oralloy wrote:ican711nm wrote:Phase 4, "the downfall." By 2013, al Qaeda will control the Persian Gulf, and all its oil, as well as most of the Middle East.
So the agency that is responsible for 9/11 would be a government power, with citizens who openly support it?
Puts me in the mood for a good old-fashioned Hiroshima-style barbeque.


Yes, but please don't attribute any of this plan to me.
Book:Al-Zarqawi: al Qaeda's Second Generation by Jordanian journalist, Fouad Hussein.
Quote:Al Qaeda's seven phase plan for world conquest:
Phase 1, the "wakeup call." Spectacular terrorist attacks on the West get the infidels to make war on Islamic nations. This arouses Moslems, and causes them to flock to al Qaedas banner. This phase is complete.
Phase 2, the "eye opening." Al Qaeda does battle with the infidels, and shows over a billion Moslems how it's done. This phase to be completed by next year.
Phase 3, "the rising." Millions of aroused Moslems go to war against Islam's enemies for the rest of the decade. Especially heavy attacks are made against Israel. It is believed that major damage in Israel will force the world to acknowledge al Qaeda as a major power, and negotiate with it.
Phase 4, "the downfall." By 2013, al Qaeda will control the Persian Gulf, and all its oil, as well as most of the Middle East. This will enable al Qaeda to cripple the American economy, and American military power.
Phase 5, "the Caliphate." By 2016, the Caliphate (i.e., one government for all Moslem nations) will be established. At this point, nearly all Western cultural influences will be eliminated from Islamic nations. The Caliphate will organize a mighty army for the next phase.
Phase 6, "world conquest." By 2022, the rest of the world will be conquered by the righteous and unstoppable armies of Islam. This is the phase that Osama bin Laden has been talking about for years.
Phase 7, "final victory." All the world's inhabitants will be forced to either convert to Islam, or submit to Islamic rule. To be completed by 2025.