US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

McTag wrote:

A sequence of events:

USA and Britain invade Iraq, which has a big Shia majority. Iran, the neighbouring Shia country, then elects a hardline government with fundamentalist Shia views. Iran then pushes ahead with a nuclear development programme, ignoring international concerns. Iran's president then says "Israel should be wiped off the map".

A question: how much are Bushco's actions helping peace and stability in the Middle East?

... The western economies are entering a period of unprecedented difficulty which governments have understood (imo) for a long time. With the collapse of the Soviet Union (and after the Clinton wobble), they see now as the time for action. Nothing makes sense unless it is viewed in the light of the crisis which is about to hit us. And what is that crisis you may ask. Oil, thats what. Ican and the flat earth economists do not understand this. But others do, and some of them are directing the foreign policy of the United States, and Britain.

McTag,
Your question reminds me of the problem of creating many more new terrorists than the number of terrorists being defeated.

Ican understands very well that the earth is spherical, and not planer (i.e., not two-dimensional, Steve).

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); . . .

Given al Qaeda had training camps in Iraq . . .

ican711nm wrote:

Ican understands very well that the earth is spherical, and not planer [ planar] (i.e., not two-dimensional, Steve).

sorry to pick you up on this but when you tell me that the earth is not planer and mean not planar, well I have to. ...

... All in all the vast majority of reasons given by the US Congress are mostly about WMD; secondarily, the reasons stated are about purported aid and harboring of terrorists by Iraq; tertiarily, the reasons stated were about altruism towards the peoples of Iraq.

To say, "the USA had to invade Iraq as a necessary step toward the 'elimination of terrorism as a threat to our way of life,' despite the failure to find sufficient evidence of the truth of the assist or of the possession," is a leap of logic. You do not know that the invasion of Iraq was "a necessary step toward the 'elimination of terrorism as a threat to our way of life," you are merely surmising.

ican wrote:

Given al Qaeda had training camps in Iraq . . .

This is a grossly simplistic assumption that has not been verified.

A booklet by the Pakistani jihadist group Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure), believed to be linked to the recent London bombings, declares
the U.S., Israel and India as existential enemies of Islam and lists eight reasons for global jihad. These include the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Spain, "Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Sicily, Ethiopia, Russian Turkistan and Chinese Turkistan. . . Even parts of France reaching 90 kilometers outside Paris." Blaming the U.S. for the delusions of these admittedly small groups confers a degree of legitimacy on Islamist extremists and undermines moderate Muslim struggling for the soul of their faith.

Tim Wilcox

www.internationalinvestigators.com


LEADERSHIP: Al Qaeda's Plan for World Conquest

September 1, 2005: Al Qaeda has a plan, and it's been published in a
book (Al-Zarqawi: al Qaeda's Second Generation) by Jordanian journalist,
Fouad Hussein. Several al Qaeda leaders were interviewed for the book,
including al Qaeda's man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The book is
only available in Arabic, but it does lay out a very straightforward
strategy for world conquest. Actually, it sounds a lot like what the nazis
and communists had in mind last century. The only difference is that,
while the nazis killed you for who you were, and the communists killed
you for what you believed, al Qaeda kills you for religious differences.
No matter which zealot gets you, you're still dead.

According to Fouad Hussein, al Qaeda has a seven phase plan for world
conquest. It goes like this.

Phase 1, the "wakeup call." Spectacular terrorist attacks on the West
(like September 11, 2001) get the infidels (non-Moslems) to make war on
Islamic nations. This arouses Moslems, and causes them to flock to al
Qaedas banner. This phase is considered complete.

Phase 2, the "eye opening." This is the phase we are in, where al Qaeda
does battle with the infidels, and shows over a billion Moslems how
it's done. This phase is supposed to be completed by next year.

Phase 3, "the rising." Millions of aroused (in a terrorist sense)
Moslems go to war against Islam's enemies for the rest of the decade.
Especially heavy attacks are made against Israel. It is believed that
major
damage in Israel will force the world to acknowledge al Qaeda as a major
power, and negotiate with it.

Phase 4, "the downfall." By 2013, al Qaeda will control the Persian
Gulf, and all its oil, as well as most of the Middle East. This will
enable al Qaeda to cripple the American economy, and American military
power.

Phase 5, "the Caliphate." By 2016, the Caliphate (one government for
all Moslem nations) will be established. At this point, nearly all
Western cultural influences will be eliminated from Islamic nations. The
Caliphate will organize a mighty army for the next phase.

Phase 6, "world conquest." By 2022, the rest of the world will be
conquered by the righteous and unstoppable armies of Islam. This is the
phase that Osama bin Laden has been talking about for years.

Phase 7, "final victory." All the world's inhabitants will be forced to
either convert to Islam, or submit (as second class citizens) to
Islamic rule. This will be completed by 2025 or thereabouts.

Nothing really new in all this. Al Qaeda has been talking openly about
this (the global Islamic state) for years. These Islamic terrorists are
true believers. God is on their side, and they believe all obstacles
will be swept aside by the power of the Lord. Will al Qaeda's plan work?
Ask the nazis and communists.

www.dni.gov/release_letter_101105.html
Letter from al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi, October 11, 2005
ODNI News Release No. 2-05

Today the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a letter between two senior al Qa'ida leaders, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, that was obtained during counterterrorism operations in Iraq. This lengthy document provides a comprehensive view of al Qa'ida's strategy in Iraq and globally.

The letter from al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi is dated July 9, 2005. The contents were released only after assurances that no ongoing intelligence or military operations would be affected by making this document public.

The document has not been edited in any way and is released in its entirety in both the Arabic and English translated forms. The United States Government has the highest confidence in the letter's authenticity.

Al-Zawahiri's letter offers a strategic vision for al Qa'ida's direction for Iraq and beyond, and portrays al Qa'ida's senior leadership's isolation and dependence.

Among the letter's highlights are discussions indicating:

The centrality of the war in Iraq for the global jihad.

From al Qa'ida's point of view, the war does not end with an American departure.

An acknowledgment of the appeal of democracy to the Iraqis.

The strategic vision of inevitable conflict, with a tacit recognition of current political dynamics in Iraq; with a call by al-Zawahiri for political action equal to military action.

The need to maintain popular support at least until jihadist rule has been established.

Admission that more than half the struggle is taking place "in the battlefield of the media."


Entire letter in English
www.dni.gov/letter_in_english.pdf

I'm doing more than "surmising" and assuming. I am deducing the truth from a preponderance of evidence that it was "a necessary step toward the 'elimination of terrorism as a threat to our way of life."

Oh what a surprise...

Thoughtful conservatives are much scarcer on this thread now, perhaps because articles like this are beginning at last to surface in the heavyweight papers

ican wrote:

I'm doing more than "surmising" and assuming. I am deducing the truth from a preponderance of evidence that it was "a necessary step toward the 'elimination of terrorism as a threat to our way of life."

You are arriving at a surmise based on your interpretations of the information you present. Like I've pointed out elsewhere on this continuing thread, your surmise is based on leaps of logic, rationalizations, circular reasonings, faith in questionable sources, and flights of fancy in your interpretations thereof. Calling your surmise "truth" does not make it truth.

dlowan wrote:

Oh what a surprise...

What's the surprise? Isn't The Independent known for publishing liberal, anti-Bush drivel? Not being a regular reader, I don't know these things.

What's the surprise? Isn't The Independent known for publishing liberal, anti-Bush drivel? Not being a regular reader, I don't know these things.

dlowan wrote:

Oh what a surprise...

What's the surprise? Isn't The Independent known for publishing liberal, anti-Bush drivel? Not being a regular reader, I don't know these things.

Ticomaya wrote:

dlowan wrote:

Oh what a surprise...

What's the surprise? Isn't The Independent known for publishing liberal, anti-Bush drivel? Not being a regular reader, I don't know these things.

The Independent tries to be just that, and publishes articles by conservative writers as well as sensible, balanced stuff.
It has been conducting an anti-Bushco campaign though, ever since it became clear what an unmitigated disaster the pres, his minders and his policies were going to be for his country and for the world.

dlowan wrote:

Oh what a surprise...

What's the surprise? Isn't The Independent known for publishing liberal, anti-Bush drivel? Not being a regular reader, I don't know these things.