US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

Walter are they just offerring to pay for damages but not offering an apology for storming an Iraqi jail in the first place?

Maybe if the Bush administration relied on intelligence that didn't fit their preconceived notions and planned accordingly things might of went smoother.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-11-cia-iraq-report_x.htm

CIA review faults prewar plans

By John Diamond, USA TODAY

The British consulate general and the provincial council of Basra expressed the "regret" of the British Army.

It seems British forces have lost control in S Iraq, if they every had it in the first place. From the outset they conceded much local power to the Shiite militia for a quiet life, now we realise they in turn are controlled from Tehran. If the Iranians ever sent a division over the border British troops would have no option but to retreat.

Does that mean that they regret it happened or regret it had to happen?

semantics and war go well together.

I can't find the full text of the statement online, but her are some quotations, as reported in the Telegarph

Going from what I read from your quotes, I don't think they are regetting invading their jail, just regetting it happened. I doubt it impresses the town much but if they do come through with the money to pay for the damages; that might.

Like CI said, semantics and war go well together. sadly enough.

The Onion

revel, That was not me; it was Steve.

sorry CI and Steve, I really need to read and check my posts more.

I've mixed people on a2k myself, so my heart is a forgiving one. LOL

Maybe! Maybe not!

Things aren't looking too good in Iraq after all:

Sunni Leaders Offer Mixed Views of Deal on Constitution


Save Article
By DEXTER FILKINS
Published: October 12, 2005
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 12 - Sunni leaders offered a mixed reaction today to a deal designed to improve the prospects of Iraq's constitution, which is set to go before Iraqi voters in a nationwide referendum on Saturday.


Karim Kadim/Associated Press
A suicide bomber killed at least 20 Iraqis and wounded 30 others at an army recruiting center near Tal Afar today.




Names of the Dead (October 12, 2005)

Forum: The Transition in Iraq
A number of religious and political leaders among the Sunnis - who form the backbone of the guerrilla insurgency - said they would continue to oppose the charter. The Iraqi Islamic Party, the country's largest Sunni political party agreed to support it in exchange for an amendment that could allow substantial changes after the National Assembly is chosen in December.

Among those continuing to reject the constitution was the powerful Association of Muslim Scholars, which represents hundreds of Sunni clerics from across the country. At least two other Sunni leaders, including Adnan Al Dulaimi, of the Conference of the Iraqi People, and Kamal Hamdoon, a Sunni member of the constitutional drafting committee, said they would continue to oppose the constitution.

"We do not tell the Iraqi people how to act, but we are against this constitution because we think it encourages the sectarian division of this country," Isam Al Rawi of the Association of Muslim Scholars said.

But at least one influential Sunni leader , Mahmood Al Mashahadani, declared that he had decided to endorse the constitution and would urge Iraqis to approve it.

"It's a hard fact that if we want to want to achieve our demands of freeing the country from occupation, we have to engage in the political process to do so," Mr. Mashahadani said in an interview. "We will call on all the voters to say 'yes,' because there is no meaning in saying 'no.' "

There were faint signs of movement among other Sunni leaders as well. Former President Ghazi Yawar, who had conspicuously failed to show up in August for a ceremony announcing the completion of the constitution, publicly endorsed it today.

The National Assembly approved the revisions to the draft constitution this evening when no one raised any objections to the proposal. There was no vote.

I hope more Sunni's listen to him for the sake of their independence. They may not realize it but they do have the power in their own hands to make the US leave. We promised to leave if asked and if the leaders in power ask the US to leave, we will have no choice but to do so or there will be no denying that the solvency of Iraq is but an illusion.

They surely must realize that they do not have the power to actually drive us out by force and I really doubt that the US will withdraw and risk being seen as running at the scene of an accident so to speak. This situation could go on indefinitely in this manner whereas if they started participating in their own government and then demanded that the US leave, they will achieve their goal of an independent Iraq even if it is different than some of them wanted. They should balance not wanting to have anything to do with a government formed under US control and the practicality wanting the US to leave.

But it always easy to see what others need to do and spout it off a zillion miles away as though you know everything, huh?

People compare Iraq and Vietnam; I don't really know the history of Vietnam but it seems to me leaving Iraq while it is internally unstable is different than leaving a country where they were not fighting among themselves but just fighting us. ( I don't know quite how to word what I mean.)Since that wasn't taking place before we came, I just feel we are morally bound to stay (in Iraq) and deal with it unless asked to leave.

This reveals al Qaeda's true intent better than anything published in TOMNOM (i.e., The Oxy-Moron News-Opinion Media).

www.dni.gov/release_letter_101105.html


Letter in Arabic
www.dni.gov/letter_in_arabic.pdf

Letter in English
www.dni.gov/letter_in_english.pdf

How can anyone view the situation in Iraq and see anything but a bloody cluster phuk?


Source

This is not good news or bode well for democracy over there.

Violence struck yesterday after that guy, Mr. Mashahadani, spoke in the interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/14/international/middleeast/14cnd-iraq.html

Things are looking bad in Iraq. From the BBC:


Iraq Sunni party offices attacked
Three offices of an Iraqi Sunni party which dropped its opposition to the new constitution have been attacked, a day before a referendum on the text.
In Baghdad, a bomb exploded outside the office of the Iraqi Islamic Party.

Gunmen set fire to the party's office in the western city of Falluja, and ransacked its office in Baiji, north of Baghdad. No injuries were reported.

Many Sunni parties oppose the text, and have called on Iraqis to boycott the poll or vote "No".

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1511492/20051014/index.jhtml?headlines=true
Bush's Conversation With U.S. Soldiers Was Rehearsed
10.14.2005 8:34 AM EDT

White House denies allegations that teleconference was scripted.
President George W. Bush holds a teleconference with U.S. troops in Iraq on Thursday
It was billed as a candid chat between President Bush and American troops in Iraq about the upcoming constitutional referendum and the progress of the war. But critics are calling it a carefully scripted media play that was preceded by a dress rehearsal.

The teleconference took place on Thursday when 10 hand-picked soldiers from the Army's 42nd Infantry Division were assembled in class-photo-style seating in a building in Tikrit ?- the birthplace of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein ?- to speak to the president, who was in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building in Washington. According to The Associated Press, the questions asked during the call were carefully choreographed to match the president's goals for the war in Iraq and Saturday's crucial vote on the nation's new constitution.

"This is an important time," deputy assistant defense secretary Allison Barber told the troops before Bush arrived, according to the AP. "The president is looking forward to having just a conversation with you." Barber said the president wanted to cover three topics: the overall security situation in Iraq, security preparations for the weekend vote and efforts to train Iraqi troops (see "U.S. Sending 1,500 More Troops To Iraq This Fall").

After asking for some water bottles to be removed from the shot, Barber then staged what was described as a brief rehearsal, in which she asked the soldiers to act out the order of their answers and which topics each would cover.

"If the question comes up about partnering ?- how often do we train with the Iraqi military ?- who does he go to?" Barber asked.

"That's going to go to Captain Pratt," one of the soldiers said.

"And then if we're going to talk a little bit about the folks in Tikrit ?- the hometown ?- and how they're handling the political process, who are we going to give that to?" she asked. Barber later said the soldiers were coached on general themes the president wanted to discuss, not specific questions.

Once Bush got on the line, he thanked the soldiers and told them that the American people were behind them. "You've got tremendous support here at home," Bush said. A recent AP-Ipsos poll showed less than 40 percent of Americans approved of the way the president is handling the war in Iraq and that just over 50 percent now believe the war was a mistake.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan denied that the event was staged and said the troops were expressing their own feelings. He explained that "coordination" is often needed to overcome such technological challenges as delays in transmission in the satellite feed.

"I think all they were doing was talking to the troops and letting them know what to expect," McClellan said, explaining that the president wanted to talk with troops on the ground who have firsthand knowledge about the situation.

"The troops can ask the president whatever they want," McClellan said. "They've always been free to do that." According to the Los Angeles Times, Bush did not invite the soldiers to ask any questions and none of them elected to do so.

Time magazine reporter Tim Allen told CNN that the White House has said the exchange was "rehearsed, but not scripted," and that it's not unusual for lower level officers to be briefed before speaking to the commander in chief. What's unusual, Allen said, was for the typically buttoned-down Bush White House to allow the reporting pool to see this type of prepping.

"It bolsters the perception that this administration relies too much on spin," Allen said.

According to the AP, the soldiers all gave the president an upbeat assessment of the situation in Iraq.

1st Lt. Gregg Murphy of Tennessee told the president that preparations for the vote were on track. "Sir, we are prepared to do whatever it takes to make this thing a success. ... Back in January, when we were preparing for that election, we had to lead the way. We set up the coordination, we made the plan. We're really happy to see, during the preparation for this one, sir, they're doing everything."

Master Sgt. Corine Lombardo from Scotia, N.Y., told the president that the training of Iraqi troops was going well. "I can tell you over the past 10 months, we've seen a tremendous increase in the capabilities and the confidences of our Iraqi security force partners," she said. "Over the next month, we anticipate seeing at least one-third of those Iraqi forces conducting independent operations."

That assessment came on the same day that a Pentagon report to Congress made public revealed that Iraqi security forces are at least a year away from being able to take over responsibility from U.S. troops in fighting the increasingly deadly insurgency in the country. Several weeks ago, U.S. commanders in Iraq gave a sobering account to Congress about the readiness of Iraqi troops, in which they said the number of 800-men battalions that were ready to operate independently had actually dropped, from three to one.

In another nod to one of the president's recurring themes, Lombardo then told the president that she was in New York on November 11, 2001, when Bush attended an event honoring soldiers for their rescue efforts at Ground Zero. She said that the troops began fighting terrorism following the September 11 attacks and that they were "proud" to continue that fight in Iraq.

"I thought you looked familiar," Bush said, joking, "I probably look familiar to you, too."

An anonymous senior member of the military told the Los Angeles Times that, "Officers are upset that military people would be coached as to how to talk to the president. ... It's against everything that people in uniform stand for." The AP reported that half the troops involved were officers, and the leader of an advocacy group for Iraq war veterans said, "If he wants the real opinions of the troops, he can't do it in a nationally televised teleconference. ... He needs to be talking to the boots on the ground, and that's not a bunch of captains."

?- Gil Kaufman