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Bible Study Help!

 
 
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 01:59 am
Hi,
I have posted a few questions regarding Bible passages that have troubled me. I have asked a few folks who seem to know a lot about the Bible and they say they know a guaranteed way to heaven. But when I asked these questions, they seem to either get angry or avoid the question or say something like "don't worry about these passages, ignore them."

Can we ignore the entire Bible then? How do you choose which passages to keep, and which you will ignore? I believe we either have to take the entire document, or nothing.

Respectfully, I submit a few questions that have troubled me when I read the Bible. Does anyone have ideas about how to deal with the instructions outlined in the Bible below.

Some of the instructions almost seem like murder, bigamy, malpractice, and other various crimes & felonies.

Is it okay to do these things, because the Bible says to?

Some of these questions are from my own life, others are from various acquaintances I have encountered over the years:

-------

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

My teenage son became rebellious, disobedient, and drank and ate too much. I knew that the Bible required me to gather my neighbors together and take my unruly son to the edge of the city and stone him to death (Deut. 21:21). Should I have obeyed the Bible?

My neighbor suspects his young vivacious wife with infidelity. He is consumed with jealously just thinking about this. His wife denies his accusations. The Bible (Numbers 5:11-31) provides a way to reconcile this dilemma for the couple. What it allows, is, for the husband to take his wife to the priests, or rabbis, and have her fed poison. If she is innocent she will not be harmed. If she is guilty she will get what she deserves; her insides will bloat and her thighs will rot away and she won't be able to have any more children (they already have five). My question to you is: "Do you believe this a failsafe way for my neighbor to handle this problem?"

I recently heard of someone who has come down with leprosy, of all things. According to the Bible (Leviticus 14:1-8), the first step in cleansing leprosy is to have the priests or rabbis to kill a dove and spill its blood into an earthen bowl. Then the priest or rabbi is to take a live dove and, dip it in the bowl of the blood of the first dove. Then the live bird is to be loosed in the fields. If this doesn't work one can take a larger more expensive animal, such as sheep, and do a similar exercise (the priest gets to eat the meat). Would you advise that this person to follow the Bible's advice?

My spouse, -- "the wife of my bosom" -- for some 57 years, has, in recent years, sought comfort and solace in some aspects of the "New Age" religions. She has talked repeatedly and glowingly, to me, other members of our family, and people generally, about the joy and contentment she finds in some aspects of this. Sometimes I fear she may be becoming a later-day pagan. She has definitely turned away after other gods. I am told (Deut.13:6-11), in no uncertain terms, that I must personally kill her, lest she contaminates me and others with these gentler, un-God like, non-biblical beliefs. I really don't want to stone her to death. Our children and our grandchildren love their mother and grandmother very much, and are opposed to my killing her, refusing to help me as they are required to do. After all she is her children's mom. Is there any way out of this for me?

I have two brothers who pre-deceased their wives. One of these women was childless. I understand that it was my duty as the husband's brother (Deut. 25:5-10), to go in unto this childless sister-in-law, and bed her, and take her as my wife and bring up an heir for my poor dead brother. Did it matter that I was already married? Did it matter that my wife took a dim view of my actually doing this?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 04:01 am
Congratulations, extra. Finally someone who maintains proper reverence for the board. The simple answer to all your questions is, of course, that Jesus fulfilled the law and we are no longer obligated to it.

I will, however answer a few of your questions keeping the spirit in which they were asked:

Regarding slaves - Just keep them out of sight of the immigration officials.

Regarding shellfish - Nothing is more disgusting than eating oysters, IMHO.

Regarding teenagers - When my teenage son became rebellious and drank and ate too much, I just took away his car keys, a fate worse than death.

Regarding wives - If you haven't figured it out after 57 years, how do you expect me to know anything after only 30?
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 04:11 am
E-M - you can also offer your virgin daughters to an angry mob. If they don't pack-rape them YOU can do the job when a vengeful Lord kills everyone in your town (that includes unborn babies in the womb and just born infants).

If your neighbours are of African extraction you are free to enslave them and sell their children from them, as long as they aren't of the EXACT same religion as you.

Curse any fig-trees that aren't producing fruit out of season. They'll be blighted and die. I don't know WHY you would, but Jesus did - so it must be OK.

With the Lord's blessing you can take ALL the territory that has been promised to you by the Lord. You are free to kill everyone. Yep, everyone. It is YOUR Promised Land, not theirs! Enslave their children and rape their daughters (there is NOTHING in the Bible to stop you!).
0 Replies
 
MiTHoS
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 08:42 am
Yah, neologist hit it on the nose. You don't have to worry about pretty much all of that stuff. It's all kindof 'obsolite'. Jesus nailed the old law to the cross.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 09:47 am
M!THº§ wrote:
Yah, neologist hit it on the nose. You don't have to worry about pretty much all of that stuff. It's all kindof 'obsolite'. Jesus nailed the old law to the cross.


Why is it obsolete? Did Jesus become the new guy in charge? He sure had different ideas than his dad. I never did quite understand the changing of the guard. That whole trinity thing makes it sound like there really was no change, but then we know something was radically different.

I also have trouble understanding why if all that stuff is obsolete, that people get their dander up so much about the Ten Commandments, or was that nine or twelve of fifteen?
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 12:32 pm
Okay, it seems most so far are just saying the old testament is obsolete and to just ignore it?

Or are you saying just ignore parts of it?

In the New Testament, there is:
Matt 5:29-30
"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

My right eye has offended me at different points in my life. Am I morally obligated to gouge it out and throw it away?

And please don't tell me that "this wasn't meant to be read literally." If that is the case, we can read the entire Bible as an allegory or a symbolic tale or something and when it is written "Do not fornicate" well we could just say "that wasn't meant to be read literally."

I mean, who decides which passages to read literally and follow closely, and which passage to say "oh, no, I don't really like that passage, it must mean this instead...."
0 Replies
 
watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 01:00 pm
Re: Bible Study Help!
extra medium wrote:
Can we ignore the entire Bible then? How do you choose which passages to keep, and which you will ignore? I believe we either have to take the entire document, or nothing.


The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.

"Join christianity. You need do nothing more than accept Jesus as your saviour for an eternal reward."

"Cool, I'll join."

"Okay, now you have to give up premarital sex, intragender sex, drinking and oh yeah, you have to spread it to everyone."

"Wait a darn cotton-picking minute... That wasn't in the original terms."

"You said you accept Jesus as your saviour, well everyone who genuinely accepts Jesus would WANT to do this kind of thing. Surely you were serious when you said you accepted him."

...

Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 02:23 pm
EM, anyone who believes that the Bible is God's Word is required to keep all of these laws, no matter how inconvenient or contradictory.

Neologist, Jesus never abolished the law. Paul claimed that he did because he was having trouble getting gentiles to convert once they found out about circumcision, strict dietary laws, etc. Paul's words are not God's Words. It was the Ecumenical Councils that spent centuries deciding which texts to include in the Canon (sometimes by just one vote) and which to ignore or destroy.

Jesus wrote:
Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)
0 Replies
 
MiTHoS
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2005 08:32 am
I mean that the Old Law is obsolete in all its bindings and whatnot. We are to follow after Jesus and what he said, but the old testament serves as a good/bad example. We can see where people did good or went wrong. We can learn more about God's charactor and such.

Without the old testament the new couldn't exist. The old 'foreshadowed' the new. Not only that but it explains why we needed Jesus' sacrifice.
0 Replies
 
NewSoul
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2005 01:55 pm
Christianity is just pure confusion. I understand your confusion, I was confused too. Nobody, with a brain, would ever buy a Myth of Jesus, son of God, dying for sins of others.... For God sake, Jesus is a creation of GOD, he was sent by GOD to warn people from their wrongdoings and to apply the comandemants of Abraham but people twisted everything and said they killed the messenger of GOD? GOD who created you and me and the Universe surely is able to stop that from happening. He raised Jesus to him and gave Jesus Image to one of the Enemies of Jesus then you know the end of the story......

What a lie !!! God, the Creator, need a Son ??? Why not a Daughter ????? Then MAry is the Queen or what ?? What a confusion!!! then we are all Gods????? or just Men and our Women are what ??? Mothers of Gods ????

That is exactly why I reverted to Islam. May God forgive you from attributing a son to him, a son that was not powerful enough to save his life. May God guide you to the right path. You are the most stupid of the creation. The atheists are the most arrogant.
0 Replies
 
MiTHoS
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2005 08:51 am
Jesus wasn't created he's a part of God. He was with him in the begining. Genesis 1:26 "God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..."
0 Replies
 
MiTHoS
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2005 08:51 am
Jesus wasn't created he's a part of God. He was with him in the begining. Genesis 1:26 "God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..."
0 Replies
 
MiTHoS
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2005 08:53 am
sorry this computer is screwed up.
0 Replies
 
NewSoul
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2005 10:42 am
How about Adam? Surely he was with God too.
God was alone and then he created everything to glorify him. Did you ever get the chance to read the Quran ? Do you know what it is ? I was confused like you too . Do you really believe that what you have been thought when you were young is the truth ? or you just memorize what it was said to you in Church by pastors, preachers, priests or whoever walk you thru your bible blindly and tell you this is what it says and what it means. Did you have the chance to ask yourself, who God is, and why he needs a son when you know that God created all of us in justice and created laws for us to live with such as reproduction, parenting..etc ? Does God need a Son or a daughter ? Why not a Daughter? ...etc... What if you were born Hindu ? Don't you have a brain and personnality to check if the faith that was attributed to you accidently was the truth or you don't fear Hellfire ?

You should ask yourself those questions. I did and after long struggle in my life I finally found the truth, and not a twisted laws of Abraham by the jews and the romans. Do you know what Ester and all those holidays are coming from? you will be so surprised that most of them are pagant holidays... Is it fair that just believing that Jesus, who is dead now, died on a cross to save people will take you to Heaven ? Now, is it fair that Jesus take all the horrible sins and noone get punished for their own evil ? What a confusion ? Do you know that nowhere in the Bible it says that Jesus is God ? Do you know there are 66 , can you tell which one is the right one? Can you certify me that the bible is 100% from God ? Do you think God is merciful but when it comes to punish who really deserves it he forgives ? Do you think it is fair that God send a raper and killer to Heaven ? Ask yourself those questions , try to answer them, MAke your own judgment. Read the Bible and the Quran and see what happens.
0 Replies
 
NewSoul
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2005 10:55 am
"God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness...


I forgot to mention that God created us to have an own will to have the same values like his, Almighty, and not to be part of him. What is Make ? it means create..."let us Make'' means God created man and didn't say he took a part of him. He created us to have his values ... You can read the following to see what kind of values God has (99 mentionned in the Quran).

Allah ( means God in Arabic)
Allah, He who has the Godhood which is the power to create the entities.

Ar-Rahmaan
The Compassionate, The Beneficient, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers and the blasphemers in this world and especially for the believers in the hereafter.

Ar-Raheem
The Merciful, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers.

Al-Malik
The King, The Sovereign Lord, The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.

Al-Quddoos
The Holy, The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries.

As-Salaam
The Source of Peace, The One who is free from every imperfection.

Al-Mu'min
Guardian of Faith, The One who witnessed for Himself that no one is God but Him. And He witnessed for His believers that they are truthful in their belief that no one is God but Him.

Al-Muhaimin
The Protector, The One who witnesses the saying and deeds of His creatures.

Al-^Azeez
The Mighty, The Strong, The Defeater who is not defeated.

Al-Jabbaar
The Compeller, The One that nothing happens in His Dominion except that which He willed.

Al-Mutakabbir
The Majestic, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures and from resembling them.

Al-Khaaliq
The Creator, The One who brings everything from non-existence to existence.

Al-Bari'
The Evolver, The Maker, The Creator who has the Power to turn the entities.

Al-Musawwir
The Fashioner, The One who forms His creatures in different pictures.

Al-Ghaffaar
The Great Forgiver, The Forgiver, The One who forgives the sins of His slaves time and time again.

Al-Qahhaar
The Subduer, The Dominant, The One who has the perfect Power and is not unable over anything.

Al-Wahhaab
The Bestower, The One who is Generous in giving plenty without any return. He is everything that benefits whether Halal or Haram.

Al-Razzaaq
The Sustainer, The Provider.

Al-Fattaah
The Opener, The Reliever, The Judge, The One who opens for His slaves the closed worldy and religious matters.

Al-^Aleem
The All-knowing, The Knowledgeable; The One nothing is absent from His knowledge.

Al-Qaabid
The Constricter, The Retainer, The Withholder, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.

Al-Baasit
The Expander, The Englarger, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.

Al-Khaafid
The Abaser, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.

Ar-Raafi^
The Exalter, The Elevator, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.

Al-Mu^iz
The Honorer, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.

Al-Muthil
The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.

As-Samee^
The All-Hearing, The Hearer, The One who Hears all things that are heard by His Eternal Hearing without an ear, instrument or organ.

Al-Baseer
The All-Seeing, The One who Sees all things that are seen by His Eternal Seeing without a pupil or any other instrument.

Al-Hakam
The Judge, He is the Ruler and His judgment is His Word.

Al-^Adl
The Just, The One who is entitled to do what He does.

Al-Lateef
The Subtle One, The Gracious, The One who is kind to His slaves and endows upon them.

Al-Khabeer
The Aware, The One who knows the truth of things.

Al-Haleem
The Forebearing, The Clement, The One who delays the punishment for those who deserve it and then He might forgive them.

Al-^Azeem
The Great One, The Mighty, The One deserving the attributes of Exaltment, Glory, Extolement,and Purity from all imperfection.

Al-Ghafoor
The All-Forgiving, The Forgiving, The One who forgives a lot.

Ash-Shakoor
The Grateful, The Appreciative, The One who gives a lot of reward for a little obedience.

Al-^Aliyy
The Most High, The Sublime, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures.

Al-Kabeer
The Most Great, The Great, The One who is greater than everything in status.

Al-Hafeez
The Preserver, The Protector, The One who protects whatever and whoever He willed to protect.

Al-Muqeet
The Maintainer, The Guardian, The Feeder, The Sustainer, The One who has the Power.

Al-Haseeb
The Reckoner, The One who gives the satisfaction.

Aj-Jaleel
The Sublime One, The Beneficent, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.

Al-Kareem
The Generous One, The Bountiful, The Gracious, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.

Ar-Raqeeb
The Watcher, The Watchful, The One that nothing is absent from Him. Hence it's meaning is related to the attribute of Knowledge.

Al-Mujeeb
The Responsive, The Hearkener, The One who answers the one in need if he asks Him and rescues the yearner if he calls upon Him.

Al-Wasi^
The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Knowledgeable.

Al-Hakeem
The Wise, The Judge of Judges, The One who is correct in His doings.

Al-Wadood
The Loving, The One who loves His believing slaves and His believing slaves love Him. His love to His slaves is His Will to be merciful to them and praise them:Hence it's meaning is related to the attributes of the Will and Kalam (His attribute with which He orders and forbids and spoke to Muhammad and Musa -peace be upon them- . It is not a sound nor a language nor a letter.).

Al-Majeed
The Most Glorious One, The Glorious, The One who is with perfect Power, High Status, Compassion, Generosity and Kindness.

Al-Ba^ith
The Reserrector, The Raiser (from death), The One who resurrects His slaves after death for reward and/or punishment.

Ash-Shaheed
The Witness, The One who nothing is absent from Him.

Al-Haqq
The Truth, The True, The One who truly exists.

Al-Wakeel
The Trustee, The One who gives the satisfaction and is relied upon.

Al-Qawiyy
The Most Strong, The Strong, The One with the complete Power.

Al-Mateen
The Firm One, The One with extreme Power which is un-interrupted and He does not get tired.

Al-Waliyy
The Protecting Friend, The Supporter.

Al-Hameed
The Praiseworthy, The praised One who deserves to be praised.

Al-Muhsee
The Counter, The Reckoner, The One who the count of things are known to him.

Al-Mubdi'
The Originator, The One who started the human being. That is, He created him.

Al-Mu^eed
The Reproducer, The One who brings back the creatures after death.

Al-Muhyi
The Restorer, The Giver of Life, The One who took out a living human from semen that does not have a soul. He gives life by giving the souls back to the worn out bodies on the resurrection day and He makes the hearts alive by the light of knowledge.

Al-Mumeet
The Creator of Death, The Destroyer, The One who renders the living dead.

Al-Hayy
The Alive, The One attributed with a life that is unlike our life and is not that of a combination of soul, flesh or blood.

Al-Qayyoom
The Self-Subsisting, The One who remains and does not end.

Al-Waajid
The Perceiver, The Finder, The Rich who is never poor. Al-Wajd is Richness.

Al-Waahid
The Unique, The One, The One without a partner.

Al-Ahad
The One.

As-Samad
The Eternal, The Independent, The Master who is relied upon in matters and reverted to in ones needs.

Al-Qaadir
The Able, The Capable, The One attributed with Power.

Al-Muqtadir
The Powerful, The Dominant, The One with the perfect Power that nothing is withheld from Him.

Al-Muqaddim
The Expediter, The Promoter, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.

Al-Mu'akh-khir
The Delayer, the Retarder, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.

Al-'Awwal
The First, The One whose Existence is without a beginning.

Al-'Akhir
The Last, The One whose Existence is without an end.

Az-Zaahir
The Manifest, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.

Al-Baatin
The Hidden, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.

Al-Walee
The Governor, The One who owns things and manages them.

Al-Muta^ali
The Most Exalted, The High Exalted, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creation.

Al-Barr
The Source of All Goodness, The Righteous, The One who is kind to His creatures, who covered them with His sustenance and specified whoever He willed among them by His support, protection, and special mercy.

At-Tawwaab
The Acceptor of Repentance, The Relenting, The One who grants repentance to whoever He willed among His creatures and accepts his repentance.

Al-Muntaqim
The Avenger, The One who victoriously prevails over His enemies and punishes them for their sins. It may mean the One who destroys them.

Al-^Afuww
The Pardoner, The Forgiver, The One with wide forgiveness.

Ar-Ra'uf
The Compassionate, The One with extreme Mercy. The Mercy of Allah is His will to endow upon whoever He willed among His creatures.

Malik Al-Mulk
The Eternal Owner of Sovereignty, The One who controls the Dominion and gives dominion to whoever He willed.

Thul-Jalali wal-Ikram
The Lord of Majesty and Bounty, The One who deserves to be Exalted and not denied.

Al-Muqsit
The Equitable, The One who is Just in His judgment.

Aj-Jaami^
The Gatherer, The One who gathers the creatures on a day that there is no doubt about, that is the Day of Judgment.

Al-Ghaniyy
The Self-Sufficient, The One who does not need the creation.

Al-Mughni
The Enricher, The One who satisfies the necessities of the creatures.

Al-Maani^
The Preventer, The Withholder.

Ad-Daarr
The Distresser, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.

An-Nafi^
The Propitious, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.

An-Noor
The Light, The One who guides.

Al-Haadi
The Guide, The One whom with His Guidance His belivers were guided, and with His Guidance the living beings have been guided to what is beneficial for them and protected from what is harmful to them.

Al-Badi^
The Incomparable, The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example.

Al-Baaqi
The Everlasting, The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him.

Al-Waarith
The Supreme Inheritor, The Heir, The One whose Existence remains.

Ar-Rasheed
The Guide to the Right Path, The One who guides.

As-Saboor
The Patient, The One who does not quickly punish the sinners.



Michael
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2005 11:50 am
NewSoul wrote:
How about Adam? Surely he was with God too.
God was alone and then he created everything to glorify him. Did you ever get the chance to read the Quran ? Do you know what it is ? I was confused like you too . Do you really believe that what you have been thought when you were young is the truth ? or you just memorize what it was said to you in Church by pastors, preachers, priests or whoever walk you thru your bible blindly and tell you this is what it says and what it means. Did you have the chance to ask yourself, who God is, and why he needs a son when you know that God created all of us in justice and created laws for us to live with such as reproduction, parenting..etc ? Does God need a Son or a daughter ? Why not a Daughter? ...etc... What if you were born Hindu ? Don't you have a brain and personnality to check if the faith that was attributed to you accidently was the truth or you don't fear Hellfire ?

You should ask yourself those questions. I did and after long struggle in my life I finally found the truth, and not a twisted laws of Abraham by the jews and the romans. Do you know what Ester and all those holidays are coming from? you will be so surprised that most of them are pagant holidays... Is it fair that just believing that Jesus, who is dead now, died on a cross to save people will take you to Heaven ? Now, is it fair that Jesus take all the horrible sins and noone get punished for their own evil ? What a confusion ? Do you know that nowhere in the Bible it says that Jesus is God ? Do you know there are 66 , can you tell which one is the right one? Can you certify me that the bible is 100% from God ? Do you think God is merciful but when it comes to punish who really deserves it he forgives ? Do you think it is fair that God send a raper and killer to Heaven ? Ask yourself those questions , try to answer them, MAke your own judgment. Read the Bible and the Quran and see what happens.


It is abundantly clear that you have no concept of the bible or Chrisianity.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2005 11:52 am
Explain again why the Bible is wrong and the Quran is right?
0 Replies
 
NewSoul
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2005 07:55 am
You can find that out by yourself if you read the Quran. The Quran is self explanatory. Islam is not a religion that push people to believe in it, but provide you with facts, wisdom and it is your choice to make. I only invited you to read. All I can tell you is that now I am Muslim, All thanks to God, and I wonder why it is the fastest growing religion. The reason is that now people are reading the Quran and finding the truth. Islam is the last Abrahamic religion of God. There was Judaism then Jesus came to warn people and recorrect the comandements of GOD once they were twisted by the Jews and then after they were twisted again God sent Muhummad . Almost all the previous Prophets predicted the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings. Despite the changes they have undergone over time, we can still find indications to his coming in the Torah, Psalms and the Gospels. I have seen so many that it is not even funny.

Here are some examples.

Other verses in the Old Testament:

In the Psalms of David, there is the following verse:

O God, send to us after the interregnum (after the latest of the successive prophets) one who will establish (Your) way.'1

Here, ?'one who will establish (Your) way' refers to the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings.

The following verse is from the Gospels:

A verse from the Torah says:

Surely God said to Abraham: ?'Hagar will certainly bear children. There will appear from her sons one whose hand will be above all, and the hands of all others will be opened to him in reverence.'2

Another verse from the Torah:

And He said, ?'O Moses, surely I will raise up for them a Prophet like you, from among their brothers (that is, from among the children of Ishmael); I will put my Word in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I Myself will call him to account.' (Deuteronomy, 18:18-19.)

A third verse from the Torah:

Moses said: ?'O my Lord, I have found in the Torah a community, as the best of the communities, that will be raised for (the benefit) of mankind; they enjoin the good and forbid the evil, and they believe in God. Let it be my community!' (God) said: ?'That is the community of Muhammad.'3

This is a verse from the Psalms:

O David, a Prophet will come after you, named Ahmad (Muhammad), the Truthful and the Lord, and his community will be forgiven.4

From the Seven ?'Abdullahs, ?'Abdullah ibn ?'Amr ibn al- ?'As, who made extensive studies of earlier Divine books, ?'Abdullah ibn Salam, who was the first to embrace Islam from amongst the famous Jewish scholars, and the renowned scholar Ka?'b ibn al-Akhbar from amongst the foremost scholars of the Israelites, all pointed out the following verse in the Torah, which was not then corrupted to its present extent. The verse, after addressing Moses, addresses the Prophet to come in the following strain:

O Prophet, verily We have sent you as a witness, a bearer of good tidings, a warner and a protection for the unlettered. You are My slave; I have named you ?'the Reliant on God', who are not harsh and stern, and not clamorous in the marketplaces; who do not repel the evil with evil, but instead pardon and forgive. God will certainly not take away his life until He straightens a crooked nation by means of him (by causing them) to proclaim ?'There is no deity but God.'5

Another verse from the Torah states:

Muhammad is the Messenger of God; his birthplace is Makka, he will emigrate to Tayba, the center of his rule is Damascus, and his community are unceasingly occupied with praise of God.6

In this verse, for the word Muhammad, a Syriac word meaning Muhammad is actually mentioned.

Another verse from the Torah:

You are My slave and Messenger; I have named you ?'the Reliant on God.'7

This verse is also addressed to a Prophet who will emerge after Moses from the progeny of Ishmael, the cousins of the children of Isaac.

Here is another verse from the Torah:

My slave is a ?'chosen one', who is not harsh, nor he is stern.8

The meaning of ?'Mukhtar', a chosen one, is the same as ?'Mustafa', a name of Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings.

The Prophet who will come after Jesus is referred to as ?'the Master of the world' in several places in the Gospels. (John, 14:30)

This verse of the Gospel, which has come to describe him,

With him is an iron staff with which he will fight, as will his community.9

indicates that a Prophet will come with a sword to wage Jihad. In agreement with this verse of the Gospel, the following Qur'anic verse at the end of Sura al-Fath (Victory), which refers to some other verses of the Gospel as well as the one mentioned above, also states that his community, like him, will be under the obligation of waging Jihad.

And their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed that sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands in its own stem, filling the sowers with wonder and delight, so that it fills the unbelievers with rage at them. (48:29)

In the Torah, there is the following verse:

The flags of the holy ones are with him, on his right. (Deuteronomy, 33:2) 10

In this verse, the Companions of the Prophet are described as ?'the holy ones', that is, his Companions are blessed, righteous, saintly friends of God.

In Chapter 42 of the Book of Isaiah, there are the following verses:

Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope. (Isaiah, 42:1-4)

These verses are certain to describe the Prophet Muhammad, who would come in the last phase of human history.

There are the following verses in Chapter 4 of the Book of Micah:

In the last days the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up the mountain of the Lord, to the house of God. He will teach us His ways, so that we may walk in His paths." (Micah, 4:1-2)

These verses obviously describe the Mount Arafat, the most blessed mountain of the world, and the nation of Muhammad, upon him be peace, together with the prayers and praises that would be offered by the pilgrims who would flock there from all climes.

The following verses are from Chapter 72 of Psalms:

He will rule from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth.The desert tribes will bow before him and his enemies will lick the dust. The kings of Tarshish and of distant shores will bring tribute to him; the kings of the Yemen and Seba will present him gifts. All kings will bow down to him and all nations will serve him. For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no-one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death. He will rescue them from oppression and violence for precious is their blood in his sight. Long may he live! May people ever pray for him and bless him all day long.

...

May his name endure for ever; may it continue as long as the sun. All nations will be blessed through him. and they will call him blessed. (Psalms, 72:8-17)

These verses describe the Prophet Muhammad, the Pride of the World, in a very clear way. Since the Prophet David, has a prophet come other than the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, who has spread his religion from east to west, to whose name many rulers pay tribute, and whose way so many obey with deep adoration for him, and on whom one fifth of mankind call, every day, God's peace and blessings? Is there anyone who fits this description other than the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings?

Prophet Muhammad in the New Testament

More emphatically and more frequently than any other Prophet, the Prophet Jesus, upon him be peace, gave the good tidings of the Last Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings.

The Capstone in the Gospel of Matthew

Jesus said:

Have you never read in the Scriptures: ?'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes? Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.' (Matthew, 21.42-4)

The ?'capstone' mentioned in the verses cannot be the Prophet Jesus for the verses refer to the crushing victories that the followers of the ?'capstone' will win against their enemies. No people were ever broken to pieces or crushed because they resisted Christianity. Christianity gained ground against the Roman Empire only after it had lost its original identity and been reconciled with Roman paganism. The Western dominion over the world came after scientific thought's triumph over the medieval Christian view of nature and was realized in the form of a ruthless colonialism. Whereas, Islam ruled almost half of the ?'old' world for many centuries as a religion in its original purity and its enemies were many times defeated before it. In its struggle with other religions, Islam has always been successful. It is, again, Islam which is on the rise as both a pure, authentic religion and as a way of life, and which is the hope of salvation for humanity more than that, the Prophet Jesus himself alludes to this fact by stating explicitly that the kingdom of God will be taken away from his followers and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Second, in a telling detail recorded in a hadith in the Sahih of al-Bukhari and that of Muslim, the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, describes himself as the ?'capstone' completing the building of Prophethood.

Paraklit, the Spirit of Truth

In the Gospel of John, Jesus promises the arrival of the Last Prophet using a variety of names:

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the ?'Paraklit' will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. (John, 16:7-8)

In these verses, the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, is referred to as the Paraklit. Paraklit11 is a Greek word meaning the Distinguisher between Truth and Falsehood. Although Christian interpreters have given this word different meanings such as Counselor (Gideons International) or Helper (American Bible Society) or Comforter (the Company of the Holy Bible), and claimed that it refers to the Holy Spirit, it is impossible even for Christians to establish whether the Holy Spirit has come down after Jesus and done what Jesus foretold he would do.

If, according to Christians, the Holy Spirit is the Archangel Gabriel, he came many times to the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, to bring Divine Revelations. Further, Jesus mentioned and predicted the Paraklit with other different names, but the same function, as is seen in the following verses:

When Paraklit comes - the Spirit of truth - who comes from the Father, he will testify about me. (John, 15.26)

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking what is mine and making it known to you. (John, 16.12-14)

I will not speak with you much longer, for the Prince of this world is coming. And I posses nothing of him. (John, 14.30)

Who has come after Jesus other than the Prophet Muhammad, as the Comforter who has comforted human beings against fear of death, against worries about the future, against spiritual ailments of all kinds? As the Helper, who has helped mankind to attain real peace and happiness in both worlds? As the Prince of the world, who has ruled almost half of the world for fourteen centuries, and who has become the beloved of billions? And as the Spirit of truth who testified to Jesus, brought glory to him by declaring his Prophethood against the denial of the Jews and false deification of him by Christians, and restoring his religion to its pristine purity through the Book he brought? What shortcomings do the Western Christians attribute to the Prophet Muhammad, in contrast to Jesus and other Prophets, that, while almost all of the Christians of the ?'Middle East' believed in him and converted to Islam within a few decades of his death, they persist in their denial of him and offer no justification?

Mawlana Jalal al-Din al-Rumi, a great Sufi saint, expresses in the following stanza the good tidings of the Prophet Muhammad by the Gospel:

In the Gospel Mustafa is mentioned with his attributes, in him is the mystery of all the Prophets; he is the bringer of happiness. The Gospel mentions him with his external form and features, and also with his personal virtues and Prophetic qualities.

In spite of the changes they have been subjected to over time, the Old and New Testaments still contain references to the Prophet Muhammad, only some of which we have quoted. The late Hussayn Jisri found one hundred and fourteen such allusions and quoted them in his Risala al-Hamidiya.

Note

In the books of other Prophets, God's Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, is mentioned with such Syriac and Hebrew names as correspond to Ahmad, Muhammad and Mukhtar. In the Pages of the Prophet Shu?'ayb, upon him be peace, his name is Mushaffah, meaning Muhammad. In the Torah, he is mentioned as Munhamanna, which means Muhammad, and as Himyata, meaning ?'the Prophet of al-Haram'. In the Psalms, he is named al-Mukhtar, and again in the Torah, al-Hatam al-Khatam. Both in the Torah and the Psalms, he is referred to as Muqim al-Sunna, which means the one who establishes and enforces the Divine way for mankind. In the Pages of Abraham, upon him be peace, and in the Torah, he is mentioned as Mazmaz, and again in the Torah, as Ahyad.

God's Messenger himself said, My name in the Qur'an is Muhammad, in the Bible Ahmad, and in the Torah Ahyad. In the Bible, he is also referred to as ?'the Possessor of the Sword and the Staff'. In-deed, among the Prophets who carried the sword, the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, is the greatest one, who was also commanded to perform Jihad together with his community. The Gospel refers to him also as the one who wears a crown. What is meant here by crown is turban, and it is the Arabs who have worn headcovers with a wrapper around them since ancient times. Hence, the reference is undoubtedly to the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings.

In the tomb of Shamun al-Safa, the famous traveler Awliya' Calabi saw the following verses in the Gospel, written on a gazelle hide: ?'I'tun (A youth) Azribun (from the progeny of Abraham) peruftun (is to be a Prophet.) Law ghıslin (He will not be a liar.) Bent afzulat (His birthplace is Makka;) ki kalushir (he will come with righteousness;) tunuminin (his blessed name) mavamid (is Ahmad Muhammad.) Isfedus (His followers) takardis (will prosper in this world,) bist bith (and also in the next.)

Certainly, Jesus frequently gave in the Gospels the glad tidings that the most significant leader of mankind would come, and mentioned him with some names in Syriac and Hebrew, which mean, as observed by meticulous experts, Ahmad, Muhammad, and Faruq (who distinguishes the truth from falsehood).



Michael
0 Replies
 
NewSoul
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2005 08:07 am
Do you know who the Arabs are ? They are the children of Ishmael, son of Abraham from Hagar. To understand the verses I previously sent you need to know the story of Muhummad. He was illiterate, and was put words in his mouth and told everything he was commanded and warned if somebody didn't submit to the laws of God he/she will be hold accounted for in the day of Judgment.


Example :


And He said, ?'O Moses, surely I will raise up for them a Prophet like you, from among their brothers (that is, from among the children of Ishmael); I will put my Word in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I Myself will call him to account.' (Deuteronomy, 18:18-19.)
0 Replies
 
NewSoul
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2005 08:10 am
I forgot to Mention that truely that verse describe Muhummad PBUH and if you tell any Muslim to tell you about Muhammad he will tell you exactly what the verse in your Bible said. Do you think Muhammad wrote that verse too and corrupted the Bible ???? I am so sure he didn't either cuz he came to the world 600 years later
0 Replies
 
 

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