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Tue 3 May, 2005 01:59 am
Hi,
I have posted a few questions regarding Bible passages that have troubled me. I have asked a few folks who seem to know a lot about the Bible and they say they know a guaranteed way to heaven. But when I asked these questions, they seem to either get angry or avoid the question or say something like "don't worry about these passages, ignore them."
Can we ignore the entire Bible then? How do you choose which passages to keep, and which you will ignore? I believe we either have to take the entire document, or nothing.
Respectfully, I submit a few questions that have troubled me when I read the Bible. Does anyone have ideas about how to deal with the instructions outlined in the Bible below.
Some of the instructions almost seem like murder, bigamy, malpractice, and other various crimes & felonies.
Is it okay to do these things, because the Bible says to?
Some of these questions are from my own life, others are from various acquaintances I have encountered over the years:
-------
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
My teenage son became rebellious, disobedient, and drank and ate too much. I knew that the Bible required me to gather my neighbors together and take my unruly son to the edge of the city and stone him to death (Deut. 21:21). Should I have obeyed the Bible?
My neighbor suspects his young vivacious wife with infidelity. He is consumed with jealously just thinking about this. His wife denies his accusations. The Bible (Numbers 5:11-31) provides a way to reconcile this dilemma for the couple. What it allows, is, for the husband to take his wife to the priests, or rabbis, and have her fed poison. If she is innocent she will not be harmed. If she is guilty she will get what she deserves; her insides will bloat and her thighs will rot away and she won't be able to have any more children (they already have five). My question to you is: "Do you believe this a failsafe way for my neighbor to handle this problem?"
I recently heard of someone who has come down with leprosy, of all things. According to the Bible (Leviticus 14:1-8), the first step in cleansing leprosy is to have the priests or rabbis to kill a dove and spill its blood into an earthen bowl. Then the priest or rabbi is to take a live dove and, dip it in the bowl of the blood of the first dove. Then the live bird is to be loosed in the fields. If this doesn't work one can take a larger more expensive animal, such as sheep, and do a similar exercise (the priest gets to eat the meat). Would you advise that this person to follow the Bible's advice?
My spouse, -- "the wife of my bosom" -- for some 57 years, has, in recent years, sought comfort and solace in some aspects of the "New Age" religions. She has talked repeatedly and glowingly, to me, other members of our family, and people generally, about the joy and contentment she finds in some aspects of this. Sometimes I fear she may be becoming a later-day pagan. She has definitely turned away after other gods. I am told (Deut.13:6-11), in no uncertain terms, that I must personally kill her, lest she contaminates me and others with these gentler, un-God like, non-biblical beliefs. I really don't want to stone her to death. Our children and our grandchildren love their mother and grandmother very much, and are opposed to my killing her, refusing to help me as they are required to do. After all she is her children's mom. Is there any way out of this for me?
I have two brothers who pre-deceased their wives. One of these women was childless. I understand that it was my duty as the husband's brother (Deut. 25:5-10), to go in unto this childless sister-in-law, and bed her, and take her as my wife and bring up an heir for my poor dead brother. Did it matter that I was already married? Did it matter that my wife took a dim view of my actually doing this?
Congratulations, extra. Finally someone who maintains proper reverence for the board. The simple answer to all your questions is, of course, that Jesus fulfilled the law and we are no longer obligated to it.
I will, however answer a few of your questions keeping the spirit in which they were asked:
Regarding slaves - Just keep them out of sight of the immigration officials.
Regarding shellfish - Nothing is more disgusting than eating oysters, IMHO.
Regarding teenagers - When my teenage son became rebellious and drank and ate too much, I just took away his car keys, a fate worse than death.
Regarding wives - If you haven't figured it out after 57 years, how do you expect me to know anything after only 30?
E-M - you can also offer your virgin daughters to an angry mob. If they don't pack-rape them YOU can do the job when a vengeful Lord kills everyone in your town (that includes unborn babies in the womb and just born infants).
If your neighbours are of African extraction you are free to enslave them and sell their children from them, as long as they aren't of the EXACT same religion as you.
Curse any fig-trees that aren't producing fruit out of season. They'll be blighted and die. I don't know WHY you would, but Jesus did - so it must be OK.
With the Lord's blessing you can take ALL the territory that has been promised to you by the Lord. You are free to kill everyone. Yep, everyone. It is YOUR Promised Land, not theirs! Enslave their children and rape their daughters (there is NOTHING in the Bible to stop you!).
Yah, neologist hit it on the nose. You don't have to worry about pretty much all of that stuff. It's all kindof 'obsolite'. Jesus nailed the old law to the cross.
M!THº§ wrote:Yah, neologist hit it on the nose. You don't have to worry about pretty much all of that stuff. It's all kindof 'obsolite'. Jesus nailed the old law to the cross.
Why is it obsolete? Did Jesus become the new guy in charge? He sure had different ideas than his dad. I never did quite understand the changing of the guard. That whole trinity thing makes it sound like there really was no change, but then we know something was radically different.
I also have trouble understanding why if all that stuff is obsolete, that people get their dander up so much about the Ten Commandments, or was that nine or twelve of fifteen?
Okay, it seems most so far are just saying the old testament is obsolete and to just ignore it?
Or are you saying just ignore parts of it?
In the New Testament, there is:
Matt 5:29-30
"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."
My right eye has offended me at different points in my life. Am I morally obligated to gouge it out and throw it away?
And please don't tell me that "this wasn't meant to be read literally." If that is the case, we can read the entire Bible as an allegory or a symbolic tale or something and when it is written "Do not fornicate" well we could just say "that wasn't meant to be read literally."
I mean, who decides which passages to read literally and follow closely, and which passage to say "oh, no, I don't really like that passage, it must mean this instead...."
Re: Bible Study Help!
extra medium wrote:Can we ignore the entire Bible then? How do you choose which passages to keep, and which you will ignore? I believe we either have to take the entire document, or nothing.
The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
"Join christianity. You need do nothing more than accept Jesus as your saviour for an eternal reward."
"Cool, I'll join."
"Okay, now you have to give up premarital sex, intragender sex, drinking and oh yeah, you have to spread it to everyone."
"Wait a darn cotton-picking minute... That wasn't in the original terms."
"You said you accept Jesus as your saviour, well everyone who genuinely accepts Jesus would WANT to do this kind of thing. Surely you were serious when you said you accepted him."
...
EM, anyone who believes that the Bible is God's Word is required to keep
all of these laws, no matter how inconvenient or contradictory.
Neologist, Jesus
never abolished the law. Paul claimed that he did because he was having trouble getting gentiles to convert once they found out about circumcision, strict dietary laws, etc. Paul's words are not God's Words. It was the Ecumenical Councils that spent centuries deciding which texts to include in the Canon (sometimes by just one vote) and which to ignore or destroy.
Jesus wrote:Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)
I mean that the Old Law is obsolete in all its bindings and whatnot. We are to follow after Jesus and what he said, but the old testament serves as a good/bad example. We can see where people did good or went wrong. We can learn more about God's charactor and such.
Without the old testament the new couldn't exist. The old 'foreshadowed' the new. Not only that but it explains why we needed Jesus' sacrifice.
Christianity is just pure confusion. I understand your confusion, I was confused too. Nobody, with a brain, would ever buy a Myth of Jesus, son of God, dying for sins of others.... For God sake, Jesus is a creation of GOD, he was sent by GOD to warn people from their wrongdoings and to apply the comandemants of Abraham but people twisted everything and said they killed the messenger of GOD? GOD who created you and me and the Universe surely is able to stop that from happening. He raised Jesus to him and gave Jesus Image to one of the Enemies of Jesus then you know the end of the story......
What a lie !!! God, the Creator, need a Son ??? Why not a Daughter ????? Then MAry is the Queen or what ?? What a confusion!!! then we are all Gods????? or just Men and our Women are what ??? Mothers of Gods ????
That is exactly why I reverted to Islam. May God forgive you from attributing a son to him, a son that was not powerful enough to save his life. May God guide you to the right path. You are the most stupid of the creation. The atheists are the most arrogant.
Jesus wasn't created he's a part of God. He was with him in the begining. Genesis 1:26 "God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..."
Jesus wasn't created he's a part of God. He was with him in the begining. Genesis 1:26 "God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..."
sorry this computer is screwed up.
How about Adam? Surely he was with God too.
God was alone and then he created everything to glorify him. Did you ever get the chance to read the Quran ? Do you know what it is ? I was confused like you too . Do you really believe that what you have been thought when you were young is the truth ? or you just memorize what it was said to you in Church by pastors, preachers, priests or whoever walk you thru your bible blindly and tell you this is what it says and what it means. Did you have the chance to ask yourself, who God is, and why he needs a son when you know that God created all of us in justice and created laws for us to live with such as reproduction, parenting..etc ? Does God need a Son or a daughter ? Why not a Daughter? ...etc... What if you were born Hindu ? Don't you have a brain and personnality to check if the faith that was attributed to you accidently was the truth or you don't fear Hellfire ?
You should ask yourself those questions. I did and after long struggle in my life I finally found the truth, and not a twisted laws of Abraham by the jews and the romans. Do you know what Ester and all those holidays are coming from? you will be so surprised that most of them are pagant holidays... Is it fair that just believing that Jesus, who is dead now, died on a cross to save people will take you to Heaven ? Now, is it fair that Jesus take all the horrible sins and noone get punished for their own evil ? What a confusion ? Do you know that nowhere in the Bible it says that Jesus is God ? Do you know there are 66 , can you tell which one is the right one? Can you certify me that the bible is 100% from God ? Do you think God is merciful but when it comes to punish who really deserves it he forgives ? Do you think it is fair that God send a raper and killer to Heaven ? Ask yourself those questions , try to answer them, MAke your own judgment. Read the Bible and the Quran and see what happens.
"God said let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness...
I forgot to mention that God created us to have an own will to have the same values like his, Almighty, and not to be part of him. What is Make ? it means create..."let us Make'' means God created man and didn't say he took a part of him. He created us to have his values ... You can read the following to see what kind of values God has (99 mentionned in the Quran).
Allah ( means God in Arabic)
Allah, He who has the Godhood which is the power to create the entities.
Ar-Rahmaan
The Compassionate, The Beneficient, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers and the blasphemers in this world and especially for the believers in the hereafter.
Ar-Raheem
The Merciful, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers.
Al-Malik
The King, The Sovereign Lord, The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.
Al-Quddoos
The Holy, The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries.
As-Salaam
The Source of Peace, The One who is free from every imperfection.
Al-Mu'min
Guardian of Faith, The One who witnessed for Himself that no one is God but Him. And He witnessed for His believers that they are truthful in their belief that no one is God but Him.
Al-Muhaimin
The Protector, The One who witnesses the saying and deeds of His creatures.
Al-^Azeez
The Mighty, The Strong, The Defeater who is not defeated.
Al-Jabbaar
The Compeller, The One that nothing happens in His Dominion except that which He willed.
Al-Mutakabbir
The Majestic, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures and from resembling them.
Al-Khaaliq
The Creator, The One who brings everything from non-existence to existence.
Al-Bari'
The Evolver, The Maker, The Creator who has the Power to turn the entities.
Al-Musawwir
The Fashioner, The One who forms His creatures in different pictures.
Al-Ghaffaar
The Great Forgiver, The Forgiver, The One who forgives the sins of His slaves time and time again.
Al-Qahhaar
The Subduer, The Dominant, The One who has the perfect Power and is not unable over anything.
Al-Wahhaab
The Bestower, The One who is Generous in giving plenty without any return. He is everything that benefits whether Halal or Haram.
Al-Razzaaq
The Sustainer, The Provider.
Al-Fattaah
The Opener, The Reliever, The Judge, The One who opens for His slaves the closed worldy and religious matters.
Al-^Aleem
The All-knowing, The Knowledgeable; The One nothing is absent from His knowledge.
Al-Qaabid
The Constricter, The Retainer, The Withholder, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.
Al-Baasit
The Expander, The Englarger, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.
Al-Khaafid
The Abaser, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.
Ar-Raafi^
The Exalter, The Elevator, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.
Al-Mu^iz
The Honorer, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.
Al-Muthil
The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.
As-Samee^
The All-Hearing, The Hearer, The One who Hears all things that are heard by His Eternal Hearing without an ear, instrument or organ.
Al-Baseer
The All-Seeing, The One who Sees all things that are seen by His Eternal Seeing without a pupil or any other instrument.
Al-Hakam
The Judge, He is the Ruler and His judgment is His Word.
Al-^Adl
The Just, The One who is entitled to do what He does.
Al-Lateef
The Subtle One, The Gracious, The One who is kind to His slaves and endows upon them.
Al-Khabeer
The Aware, The One who knows the truth of things.
Al-Haleem
The Forebearing, The Clement, The One who delays the punishment for those who deserve it and then He might forgive them.
Al-^Azeem
The Great One, The Mighty, The One deserving the attributes of Exaltment, Glory, Extolement,and Purity from all imperfection.
Al-Ghafoor
The All-Forgiving, The Forgiving, The One who forgives a lot.
Ash-Shakoor
The Grateful, The Appreciative, The One who gives a lot of reward for a little obedience.
Al-^Aliyy
The Most High, The Sublime, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures.
Al-Kabeer
The Most Great, The Great, The One who is greater than everything in status.
Al-Hafeez
The Preserver, The Protector, The One who protects whatever and whoever He willed to protect.
Al-Muqeet
The Maintainer, The Guardian, The Feeder, The Sustainer, The One who has the Power.
Al-Haseeb
The Reckoner, The One who gives the satisfaction.
Aj-Jaleel
The Sublime One, The Beneficent, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.
Al-Kareem
The Generous One, The Bountiful, The Gracious, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.
Ar-Raqeeb
The Watcher, The Watchful, The One that nothing is absent from Him. Hence it's meaning is related to the attribute of Knowledge.
Al-Mujeeb
The Responsive, The Hearkener, The One who answers the one in need if he asks Him and rescues the yearner if he calls upon Him.
Al-Wasi^
The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Knowledgeable.
Al-Hakeem
The Wise, The Judge of Judges, The One who is correct in His doings.
Al-Wadood
The Loving, The One who loves His believing slaves and His believing slaves love Him. His love to His slaves is His Will to be merciful to them and praise them:Hence it's meaning is related to the attributes of the Will and Kalam (His attribute with which He orders and forbids and spoke to Muhammad and Musa -peace be upon them- . It is not a sound nor a language nor a letter.).
Al-Majeed
The Most Glorious One, The Glorious, The One who is with perfect Power, High Status, Compassion, Generosity and Kindness.
Al-Ba^ith
The Reserrector, The Raiser (from death), The One who resurrects His slaves after death for reward and/or punishment.
Ash-Shaheed
The Witness, The One who nothing is absent from Him.
Al-Haqq
The Truth, The True, The One who truly exists.
Al-Wakeel
The Trustee, The One who gives the satisfaction and is relied upon.
Al-Qawiyy
The Most Strong, The Strong, The One with the complete Power.
Al-Mateen
The Firm One, The One with extreme Power which is un-interrupted and He does not get tired.
Al-Waliyy
The Protecting Friend, The Supporter.
Al-Hameed
The Praiseworthy, The praised One who deserves to be praised.
Al-Muhsee
The Counter, The Reckoner, The One who the count of things are known to him.
Al-Mubdi'
The Originator, The One who started the human being. That is, He created him.
Al-Mu^eed
The Reproducer, The One who brings back the creatures after death.
Al-Muhyi
The Restorer, The Giver of Life, The One who took out a living human from semen that does not have a soul. He gives life by giving the souls back to the worn out bodies on the resurrection day and He makes the hearts alive by the light of knowledge.
Al-Mumeet
The Creator of Death, The Destroyer, The One who renders the living dead.
Al-Hayy
The Alive, The One attributed with a life that is unlike our life and is not that of a combination of soul, flesh or blood.
Al-Qayyoom
The Self-Subsisting, The One who remains and does not end.
Al-Waajid
The Perceiver, The Finder, The Rich who is never poor. Al-Wajd is Richness.
Al-Waahid
The Unique, The One, The One without a partner.
Al-Ahad
The One.
As-Samad
The Eternal, The Independent, The Master who is relied upon in matters and reverted to in ones needs.
Al-Qaadir
The Able, The Capable, The One attributed with Power.
Al-Muqtadir
The Powerful, The Dominant, The One with the perfect Power that nothing is withheld from Him.
Al-Muqaddim
The Expediter, The Promoter, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.
Al-Mu'akh-khir
The Delayer, the Retarder, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.
Al-'Awwal
The First, The One whose Existence is without a beginning.
Al-'Akhir
The Last, The One whose Existence is without an end.
Az-Zaahir
The Manifest, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.
Al-Baatin
The Hidden, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.
Al-Walee
The Governor, The One who owns things and manages them.
Al-Muta^ali
The Most Exalted, The High Exalted, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creation.
Al-Barr
The Source of All Goodness, The Righteous, The One who is kind to His creatures, who covered them with His sustenance and specified whoever He willed among them by His support, protection, and special mercy.
At-Tawwaab
The Acceptor of Repentance, The Relenting, The One who grants repentance to whoever He willed among His creatures and accepts his repentance.
Al-Muntaqim
The Avenger, The One who victoriously prevails over His enemies and punishes them for their sins. It may mean the One who destroys them.
Al-^Afuww
The Pardoner, The Forgiver, The One with wide forgiveness.
Ar-Ra'uf
The Compassionate, The One with extreme Mercy. The Mercy of Allah is His will to endow upon whoever He willed among His creatures.
Malik Al-Mulk
The Eternal Owner of Sovereignty, The One who controls the Dominion and gives dominion to whoever He willed.
Thul-Jalali wal-Ikram
The Lord of Majesty and Bounty, The One who deserves to be Exalted and not denied.
Al-Muqsit
The Equitable, The One who is Just in His judgment.
Aj-Jaami^
The Gatherer, The One who gathers the creatures on a day that there is no doubt about, that is the Day of Judgment.
Al-Ghaniyy
The Self-Sufficient, The One who does not need the creation.
Al-Mughni
The Enricher, The One who satisfies the necessities of the creatures.
Al-Maani^
The Preventer, The Withholder.
Ad-Daarr
The Distresser, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.
An-Nafi^
The Propitious, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.
An-Noor
The Light, The One who guides.
Al-Haadi
The Guide, The One whom with His Guidance His belivers were guided, and with His Guidance the living beings have been guided to what is beneficial for them and protected from what is harmful to them.
Al-Badi^
The Incomparable, The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example.
Al-Baaqi
The Everlasting, The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him.
Al-Waarith
The Supreme Inheritor, The Heir, The One whose Existence remains.
Ar-Rasheed
The Guide to the Right Path, The One who guides.
As-Saboor
The Patient, The One who does not quickly punish the sinners.
Michael
NewSoul wrote:How about Adam? Surely he was with God too.
God was alone and then he created everything to glorify him. Did you ever get the chance to read the Quran ? Do you know what it is ? I was confused like you too . Do you really believe that what you have been thought when you were young is the truth ? or you just memorize what it was said to you in Church by pastors, preachers, priests or whoever walk you thru your bible blindly and tell you this is what it says and what it means. Did you have the chance to ask yourself, who God is, and why he needs a son when you know that God created all of us in justice and created laws for us to live with such as reproduction, parenting..etc ? Does God need a Son or a daughter ? Why not a Daughter? ...etc... What if you were born Hindu ? Don't you have a brain and personnality to check if the faith that was attributed to you accidently was the truth or you don't fear Hellfire ?
You should ask yourself those questions. I did and after long struggle in my life I finally found the truth, and not a twisted laws of Abraham by the jews and the romans. Do you know what Ester and all those holidays are coming from? you will be so surprised that most of them are pagant holidays... Is it fair that just believing that Jesus, who is dead now, died on a cross to save people will take you to Heaven ? Now, is it fair that Jesus take all the horrible sins and noone get punished for their own evil ? What a confusion ? Do you know that nowhere in the Bible it says that Jesus is God ? Do you know there are 66 , can you tell which one is the right one? Can you certify me that the bible is 100% from God ? Do you think God is merciful but when it comes to punish who really deserves it he forgives ? Do you think it is fair that God send a raper and killer to Heaven ? Ask yourself those questions , try to answer them, MAke your own judgment. Read the Bible and the Quran and see what happens.
It is abundantly clear that you have no concept of the bible or Chrisianity.
Explain again why the Bible is wrong and the Quran is right?
I forgot to Mention that truely that verse describe Muhummad PBUH and if you tell any Muslim to tell you about Muhammad he will tell you exactly what the verse in your Bible said. Do you think Muhammad wrote that verse too and corrupted the Bible ???? I am so sure he didn't either cuz he came to the world 600 years later
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