Deviant Art

Miklos states:
"Deviant Art" has sinister connotations for me. When I see the phrase, I can't help but think of Nazis burning piles of modern art in the 1930's.

It also strikes me that a (perhaps, THE) major purpose of art is to deviate from what has come before; as JL was suggesting, our greatest artists may be the greatest deviators from the status quo, from the academic vision. This quality upset the Nazis, who wanted a predictable style that lauded the state.

For work by the self-taught and the isolated, I much prefer the term "Outsider Art," even though it is a bit imprecise. The term "Deviant Art," for me, has dark connotations.
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JLNobody states:
I agree, Miklos. Did the Nazis not refer to the work of German Expressionism as Degenerate Art?
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Your right JL, I agree Miklos. Thank you all for your input.

AE

Thanks, AngeliqueEast. And welcome to A2K.

Yes, "deviant art," "deviant books." Grosz would qualify as deviant art, at least during the Nazi regime.

Thanks for the welcome Jl,

Well earlier this year I was doing a study on color and the Comic Grotesque style. I visited the German museum for a Comic Grotesque exhibit. I expected more, at least along the lines of political CG. Some of Grosz work was exhibited (he is one of my favorites). His work is considered political CG. I would not put him with the deviant artist.

AE

Only in the broad connotation of "deviant art" as you expressed regarding the Nazis.

Lightwizard,

The Nazis called it Degenerate Art because they deviated from the beliefs and actions of the Nazis.

I agreed with jlNobody that at that time the Nazis did call some art Degenerate Art.

In the Comic Grotesque exhibit they had some strange art that could be labeled Deviant art.

Here are a few:

Paul Klee's "Greiser Phhonix (Senile Phoenix)
"Der Komiker (The Comedian)
Der held mit dem Flugel (The hero with the wings). I have to find out if my mac has German accents, sorry I did not add them to the writing.


Alfred Kubin (even more deviant)
Das Wesen vom Mars (creature from mars)
Groteske Tierwelt (Grotesque animal world)

Paull Scheerbart
Jenseits-Galerie (The otherwordly gallery)

Just to name a few. My printer is not working at the present (waiting for repair man). I would have scanned a few pics for you, and you could see for yourself. I'm not sure if this can be found on the net.

I think when it comes to some art, sometimes more than one label would fit them. Example I call Grosz work Political Art, some call it Comic Grotesque, others expressionism. See what I mean?

AE

Semantics


Another thought, if you are just going by semantics, then you might be right.

AE

They aren't official synonyms but one conjures up the general description of the other.

Re: Deviant Art
Thank's Angelique,

I agree with you - I don't see anything really very "deviant" from what is created today.
There are very interresting works, but I don't see anything in commun between the different works. "Something in commun" which should be considered being different to "oustider art" for example.

But I must say that my english is not enough precise to understand the theory !

Philippe

Just get a good English/French dictionary and you will be alright filipe.

I enjoyed your website, I see color is important to you. One of your works would make a nice colorful av (avatar) for your profile.

I think we should just enjoy art. Sometimes we make things too complicated. We either like something or don't.

AE

Outsider Art is another label that doesn't fully describe the art other than it's primarilly executed by primitive painters.

Wiz, if I were to take the lable, "outsider," seriously, I would use it to denote painters who are self-taught (but, then, arn't we all?), having never studied in an art school and learned to follow the aesthetic represented by such schools.
Would that not include all the great "deviant" painters I listed above (Cezanne, Manet, Duchamp, Rousseau, Blake, and Pollock)? Perhaps not; they might be "deviant" but not "outsider" artists. There may be a subtle difference.

Exactly -- we are having a show with Alexandra Nechita and she is self-taught but hardly "outsider art." I'd like to see a comprehensive definition of these labels. Outsider art seems to resemble pop, cartoon graffiti art, a New York art movement of the 80's, which spawned Kenny Scharf and Keith Haring, both, incidentally, trainer artists. There has been an exhibition of "outsider art" in LA, I think at the Mexican Art Museum but I'm not sure. Is this bascially recycling what is already recognized as an art movement? I frankly don't get it.

By the Mentally ill
So would I Lightwizard, that is why I posted the thread. Don't forget the its not just art by the untrained, but art by the insane, and mentally disturbed.

AE

That's also old hat.

(Someone is putting labels on these "movements" for marketing purposes IMHO).

I agree that dealers tend to label for selling purposes.

My professor introduced outsider art to us by teaching us about the European Outsider artist.

http://www.huntfor.com/arthistory/C20th/artbrut.htm

"Outsider" is being used for many things today. We even have Outsider poetry. Poems about Rebels, Exiles, and Renegades.

Outsiders (poetry)
Edited by Laure-Anne Bosselaar
Foreword by Al Young
Milkweed Editions

From the book:
"Every Last One Of Us Is Someone Eslse's Outsider."
Poet and jazz musician Al Young plays the introductory notes for this anthology about living or thinking on the edge. This collection of poems is a powerful montage, a complex portrait of the ways in which a society is fractured. Written from beyond the pale by those who don't belong to a majority or dominant group, these poems enter the world of the homeless man on the street, the man that lives between two countries,..." and more.

As far as Outsider art is concern, I believe it to be, and belong to the mentally ill, and untrained.

AE

Then I wonder what they might call a trained mentally ill artist? Hmmm, come to think of it, was Van Gogh in his right mind? Or Jackson Pollock? Or, well I needn't go on. I guess I just hate labels and I don't really believe most artists care for labels. An untrained artist is still a primitive painter. Everyone likes to try and rewrite the dictionary but it's really revisionism. There are books on the art of the mentally ill that are decades old.

In music, I believe the label New Age was rather ridiculous and now they've come to call it Ambient Music, which is somewhat derogatory as that could be synonymous with elevator music.

Lightwizard I agree with you. The labels are set and we have to understand them, and live with them. What can I say?

AE

I don't think in this age of Pluralism that anyone has to live with them, especially when the semantics are so diffuse. What they are probably trying to say is that "Outside Art" is outside the art establishment but not outside being commercially viable. Hard to say.

With the average American's taste for art, almost anything can be sold unless it's downright garbage and even then....