neologist wrote:Terry wrote:Why wouldn't he believe that God was on the German side? They were doing God's Work in the best traditions of the Bible.
Well, He obviously wasn't. They lost. Right?
Therein lies the rub. We cannot know what side god is on until it's too late. We can't even know if we are worshipping the right god. If we are wrong, we suffer an eternity in hell.
Face it. Chances are we are all going to hell!
Setanta;
I'm really just an ordinary dweeb and have never accomplished very much. My family turned out OK, so I guess I at least did the minimum. I'm saying that because I don't wish to represent myself as an authority on anything. What I know about the bible has been obtained only through considerable research.
You say the god of the bible is a capricious being, spiteful, etc., yada, yada. I say: Travel mentally back in time to 1500 BC. Where would you rather live? Study your history carefully. Where did they practice child sacrifice? How about infanticide? Lifetime slavery? Did you ever hear of 'execution by boats'? Israel may have been a demanding place to live, but they at least offered a degree of protection to the alien resident as in Exodus 23: 9 : "And you must not oppress an alien resident, as YOU yourselves have known the soul of the alien resident, because YOU became alien residents in the land of Egypt."
You say the bible is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions. I say it is not. How could the two of us look at the same work and come to such mutually exclusive conclusions? I suggest that I have taken the time to resolve these stumbling blocks. So here is my challenge: Give it your best shot. Identify your 3 most glaring, most outrageous, most ugly inconsistencies or contradictions and I'll research and explain them. I can't guarantee complete satisfaction, but you'll have to give me at least a 'B' for effort. I'd say more than three, but I know how many there are likely to be. I've gone over countless ones myself.
Don't think I just accepted the bible because I had nothing else to do. It requires a commitment that I was extremely reluctant to give.
Also, since we're going off topic, we might need to open a new thread. What do you say, fredjones? Would this help to answer your question?
fredjones wrote:neologist wrote:Terry wrote:Why wouldn't he believe that God was on the German side? They were doing God's Work in the best traditions of the Bible.
Well, He obviously wasn't. They lost. Right?
Therein lies the rub. We cannot know what side god is on until it's too late. We can't even know if we are worshipping the right god. If we are wrong, we suffer an eternity in hell.
Face it. Chances are we are all going to hell!
Not quite, Fred. The religious leaders facilitated the war by sucking up to the politicians and serving their young men as sacrifices to the god of war.
If there were a hell. It would be populated pretty much as Dante predicted.
BTW, In my last post, I asked Setanta to digress. What do you think?
Neologist, you are indulging in a self-satisfied defense of what you like best about your superstition, and you have demonstrated in far too many places here that you listen to nothing but the sound of your own sermon. I'm not going to indulge your exercise, because having read the King James version twice through, once as an impressionable child, and the second time as an adult, disgusted by what i read--i don't intend to offend mine eye with that hatefulness yet again.
Religious beliefs are an example of special pleading. They expect us to believe implausible things, without providing satisfactory explanations. Those who make claims are obliged to prove them, others are not obliged to disprove them. The subject of this thread is hell. If any here wish to assert that such a place exists, let them demonstrate the case. If they refer to scripture to authorize their contention, let them provide the evidence that said scripture is a true and reliable account. It is not for me to disprove religious mumbo-jumbo, absurdities only become plausible at such point as those purporting them as truth provide compelling evidence.
As for your statement about the religiously motivated in Germany in the middle of the last century, you show a remarkable ignorance. First, because Hitler made constant appeals to god and religion, and successfully portrayed himself as a defender of christian values to the majority of Germans. Second, because those who weren't fooled by it, and there were thousands upon thousands of them, ended up in the camps, just like the Jews.
Setanta wrote:Neologist, you are indulging in a self-satisfied defense of what you like best about your superstition, and you have demonstrated in far too many places here that you listen to nothing but the sound of your own sermon.
Yeah, what you said.
setanta wrote: I'm not going to indulge your exercise, because having read the King James version twice through, once as an impressionable child, and the second time as an adult, disgusted by what i read--i don't intend to offend mine eye with that hatefulness yet again.
Your choice.
setanta wrote:Religious beliefs are an example of special pleading. They expect us to believe implausible things, without providing satisfactory explanations. Those who make claims are obliged to prove them, others are not obliged to disprove them.
So, don't listen to the explanations.
setanta wrote: The subject of this thread is hell. If any here wish to assert that such a place exists, let them demonstrate the case. If they refer to scripture to authorize their contention, let them provide the evidence that said scripture is a true and reliable account.
I've already provided ample scriptural evidence that hell does not exist, nor does an immortal soul.
setanta wrote: It is not for me to disprove religious mumbo-jumbo, absurdities only become plausible at such point as those purporting them as truth provide compelling evidence.
Right, all you need do is call it mumbo jumbo and presto! prove-OH!
setanta wrote:As for your statement about the religiously motivated in Germany in the middle of the last century, you show a remarkable ignorance. First, because Hitler made constant appeals to god and religion, and successfully portrayed himself as a defender of christian values to the majority of Germans. Second, because those who weren't fooled by it, and there were thousands upon thousands of them, ended up in the camps, just like the Jews.
How does this differ from what I said about the complicity between religious leaders and politicians? If you claim to know history and yet are not offended by the avalanche of clergy/politician related offenses. . . NAH; surely I must be reading you wrong.
