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DEMS' SUICIDE PLOT

 
 
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 08:13 am
Democrats say unambiguously that they will gum up the Senate works in response. They will make it impossible for Republicans to take up legislation, to pass bills, to do much of anything.

Minority Leader Harry Reid put it very frankly back in December: "If they, for whatever reason, decide to do this, it's not only wrong, they will rue the day they did it, because we will do whatever we can do to strike back. I know procedures around here. And I know that there will still be Senate business conducted. But I will, for lack of a better word, screw things up."


This threat is just about the only card Democrats have to play against the Republican action.

But if they actually follow through, they'll do themselves and their party great injury. Even though obstructionism is a vital weapon in a party's arsenal, it only works when it goes on below the radar.

The American people don't like it when politicians announce that they're going to see to it that nothing happens. Voters don't elect senators to do nothing.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 828 • Replies: 19
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 08:18 am
This is a very serious confrontation that threatens to radically change the way Senate business is conducted.
I've read the pros and cons and I'm still undecided as to the merits of the squealing by the minority party.
Thanks for bringing this up McG.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 09:03 am
Gosh...Pod is suggesting the dems are wrong and the Bush administration right. Huge surprise.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 09:09 am
McG is out to bag the Democratic Party today, this is at least his third assault thread.

The boy is high-larious.
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 10:44 am
Filibuster was for legislative proceedings only.

Judicial nominations are not legislative and MUST MUST have their nominations voted on promptly.
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coachryan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 11:56 am
Quote:
Frist Draws Criticism From Some Church Leaders
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

Published: April 22, 2005


ASHINGTON, April 21 - As the Senate battle over judicial confirmations became increasingly entwined with religious themes, officials of several major Protestant denominations on Thursday accused the Senate Republican leader, Bill Frist, of violating the principles of his own Presbyterian church and urged him to drop out of a Sunday telecast that depicts Democrats as "against people of faith."

Dr. Frist's participation has rekindled a debate over the role of religion in public life that may be complicating his efforts to overcome the Democrats' use of the filibuster, a parliamentary tactic used by Congressional minorities, to block President Bush's judicial nominees.

Dr. Frist has threatened to change the Senate rules to eliminate judicial filibusters, and in response Democrats have threatened a virtual shutdown of the Senate. A confrontation had been expected as early as next week, but it now appears that the showdown may be delayed.

Religious groups, including the National Council of Churches and the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, plan to conduct a conference call with journalists on Friday to criticize Senator Frist's participation in the telecast. The program is sponsored by Christian conservative organizations that want to build support for Dr. Frist's filibuster proposal.

Among those scheduled to speak in the conference call is the Rev. Clifton Kirkpatrick, a top official of the Presbyterian Church U.S.A., in which Dr. Frist is an active member.

"One of the hallmarks of our denomination is that we are an ecumenical church," Mr. Kirkpatrick said in an interview on Thursday. He also said, "Elected officials should not be portraying public policies as being for or against people of faith."

A spokesman for Dr. Frist said his remarks, which are not yet available, would be consistent with previous statements about fair treatment for judicial nominees. "I would hope that he would read Dr. Frist's remarks," the spokesman, Bob Stevenson, said of Mr. Kirkpatrick.

Mr. Stevenson added that the timing of the confrontation on filibusters was not related to the criticisms that have been raised about the telecast, saying Dr. Frist still planned to propose a compromise to the Democrats.

Still, the Senate moved closer to a showdown on Thursday, when the Senate Judiciary Committee, voting along party lines, approved two nominees, Janice Rogers Brown and Priscilla R. Owen, who were blocked by a filibuster in the last Congress and are expected to be blocked again. Republican strategists consider the nominees - two women, one of whom is black - favorable choices for a filibuster fight.

There were signs, though, that Dr. Frist was planning to postpone the confrontation for at least another two weeks, when the Senate returns from a spring recess.

Senator Harry Reid, the Democratic leader, said Dr. Frist had told him he would like to take up a transportation measure next week, an indication that he did not expect a filibuster fight before the Congressional recess. Polls, meanwhile, suggest a lack of public support for ending the filibuster. A recent survey conducted for NBC News and The Wall Street Journal found that 50 percent of those polled believed that the Senate should retain the filibusters for judicial nominations, while 40 percent were against and 10 percent undecided.

The theme of the telecast, which is called Justice Sunday and will be broadcast to churches and Christian radio and television networks, is "The Filibuster Against People of Faith." Its sponsors argue that by blocking judicial nominees who oppose abortion rights on religious and moral grounds, Democrats are effectively discriminating against those nominees.

Dr. Frist has agreed to provide a four-minute videotaped statement for the event. Democrats are calling his participation evidence of Republican extremism.

Christian conservatives have also accused Senator John Salazar of Colorado, a Roman Catholic, of tolerating anti-Catholicism from his fellow Democrats who oppose nominees who follow the church's teachings on abortions.

On Thursday, Mr. Salazar responded by issuing a statement taking to task one of the telecast's speakers, Dr. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, for deprecating the Catholic faith. It quoted Mr. Mohler as saying "the Roman church is a false church and it teaches a false gospel" and "the pope himself holds a false and unbiblical office."

Dr. Mohler called Mr. Salazar's statement "absolutely ridiculous," saying it was hardly news that evangelical Protestants and Roman Catholics "differ on many key theological issues." He said he supported a Catholic nominee the Democrats had opposed.

In the past two weeks, religious leaders on both sides of the judicial battle have plunged into the debate. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops is distributing millions of postcards around the country for parishioners to send their senators asking them not to insist that nominees uphold abortion rights. Evangelical Protestant groups like Focus on the Family have been portraying the confirmation debates as a fight over public expression of religion and respect for traditionalist values.

Now the liberal group People for the American Way is buying advertisements and distributing church program inserts that attack Senator Frist for invoking religious faith in what it says is a partisan context. The National Council of Churches is asking members to organize news conferences denouncing Dr. Frist.

The criticism of the telecast underscores the delicate task facing Dr. Frist, who is laying the groundwork for a possible presidential campaign in 2008, as he courts the evangelical Protestant groups and other religious traditionalists that formed the bedrock of President Bush's winning coalition. With his patrician bearing and background in the relatively liberal Presbyterian Church, Dr. Frist, a Harvard-trained transplant surgeon, does not fit in as naturally with Christian conservatives as President Bush.

Dr. Frist's overtures to Christian conservatives have drawn the ire of the more liberal hierarchies of other religious groups, including the officials of his own denomination. Dr. Bob Edgar, general secretary of the National Council of Churches and a former Democratic congressman, said he had sought to include Mr. Kirkpatrick, of the Presbyterian Church, in the conference call both because Dr. Frist is Presbyterian and because of the church's emphasis on ecumenicalism.

"To say that some group of Christians has a monopoly on the ear of God is especially an outrage to Presbyterians," Mr. Edgar said.

Mr. Kirkpatrick said Dr. Frist's participation in the telecast undermined "the historical commitment in our nation and our church to an understanding of the First Amendment that elected officials should not be portraying public policies as being for or against people of faith."

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council and organizer of the telecast, said those who were offended did not have to watch the telecast.

"There are millions of other Americans who see a connection between the filibuster and judicial activism," Mr. Perkins said. "And when we talk about judicial activism, we are talking about issues that people faith care about deeply."

"We're going to allow the majority leader to invoke faith to rewrite Senate rules, to put substandard, extremist judges on the bench?" Senator John Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat and former presidential nominee, said Thursday on the Senate floor. Mr. Kerry added, "It's not up to us to tell any one of our colleagues what to believe as a matter of faith."


Don't think this one is as in the bag as you seem to think McG.
0 Replies
 
coachryan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 11:57 am
edit for double post sorry...
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 11:59 am
woiyo wrote:
Filibuster was for legislative proceedings only.

Judicial nominations are not legislative and MUST MUST have their nominations voted on promptly.


Funny republicans remember that now when Bush is in office.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 12:17 pm
revel wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Filibuster was for legislative proceedings only.

Judicial nominations are not legislative and MUST MUST have their nominations voted on promptly.


Funny republicans remember that now when Bush is in office.


they didn't seem to be so worried about activist judges when scalia gave bush the whitehouse in 2000, either...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 12:27 pm
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
revel wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Filibuster was for legislative proceedings only.

Judicial nominations are not legislative and MUST MUST have their nominations voted on promptly.


Funny republicans remember that now when Bush is in office.


they didn't seem to be so worried about activist judges when scalia gave bush the whitehouse in 2000, either...


I can't beleive anyone is still sulking about that. Laughing
0 Replies
 
coachryan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 12:29 pm
McGentrix wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
revel wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Filibuster was for legislative proceedings only.

Judicial nominations are not legislative and MUST MUST have their nominations voted on promptly.


Funny republicans remember that now when Bush is in office.


they didn't seem to be so worried about activist judges when scalia gave bush the whitehouse in 2000, either...


I can't beleive anyone is still sulking about that. Laughing


Be honest... You're overjoyed that someone is still sulking over that :wink:
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 12:38 pm
EVERY PRESIDENT should have ALL their Judicial nominations go to the floor for an immediate vote. The filibuster is only hurting the already overtaxed system.

Why do the democrats have to continue to filibuster certain nominations? Just go to the floor and vote.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 04:01 pm
McGentrix wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
revel wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Filibuster was for legislative proceedings only.

Judicial nominations are not legislative and MUST MUST have their nominations voted on promptly.


Funny republicans remember that now when Bush is in office.


they didn't seem to be so worried about activist judges when scalia gave bush the whitehouse in 2000, either...


I can't beleive anyone is still sulking about that. Laughing


that's not sulking, it's a statement of fact. brought up just to remind people that the rightist extreme wasn't so bothered by an "activist" judge when it benefited them in that case. if you read his opinion, it's one of the most bizarre statements i've ever seen. his logic alone makes him notable.

how often have you seen me bring it up, mcg? how often have i mentioned clinton?

now how often do some of the right leaning folks here mention both ?

Laughing
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 06:18 pm
Well, in light of who Bush is and what he stands for I hope the "dems" try every single dirty trick in the book. It won't be that long till Bush is out of office and he already has had more passed than Clinton did. After all we are talking for life here.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 06:27 pm
revel wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Filibuster was for legislative proceedings only.

Judicial nominations are not legislative and MUST MUST have their nominations voted on promptly.


Funny republicans remember that now when Bush is in office.


Its funny that you dont remember Ted Kennedy,John Kerry,Harry Reid,and all the other Dems saying that judges had to be voted on when Clinton was President and the repubs tried to block nominations.

Why did judges HAVE to be voted on then,but not now?
Personally,I think the repubs should call the dems bluff and MAKE them filibuster.

Make them stand on the floor and talk,Make them pee in a trash can,MAKE them do what they are threatening.
If they do,then once a dem stops talking,then under Senate rules,the vote MUST take place.
How long can the dems hold out?

Its time the repubs get a backbone and realize that they are the MAJORITY party,not the minority.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 08:02 pm
The fact remains that Bush has had more judges passed than Clinton so I don't see what all the whining is about.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 09:06 pm
revel wrote:
The fact remains that Bush has had more judges passed than Clinton so I don't see what all the whining is about.


because the obstructionist dems only passed 210 instead of 220 or whatever. and even worse they didn't approve, in advance, the ones that bush is thinking about nominating.

no, no... the sooner the dems realize that they only represent 50% of the nation and just let the texas mafia run 'em over, the better it will be...

not...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 09:18 pm
The GOP is certainly free to go ahead and end filibustering in the Senate but only 30% of the people support them in recent polling on the issue. I saw one poll that said 48% think the Dems should shut down congress if GOP goes ahead with its plan. And on top of that 80% don't believe the GOP's claim (which is false by the way) that this is the first time in US history that presidential nominations of judges have been filibustered.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 09:27 pm
Quote:
The Republican argument on behalf of the rules change is far simpler and easier to understand than the Democratic argument. Bush and the GOP will say all they've done is to allow a candidate a fair, up-or-down vote instead of all this fancy footwork designed to delay that vote indefinitely.



from the Wall Street Journal
Quote:
One-third of Republicans say Democrats in Congress should prevent Mr. Bush and party leaders from "going too far in pushing their agenda," and 41% oppose eliminating filibusters against Mr. Bush's judicial nominees -- the "nuclear option" that Senate Republican leaders are considering.

If 41% of Republicans oppose the GOP on this issue, the only plot I can figure out the Dems have is to let the GOP commit suicide.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 09:41 pm
i mean to tell ya...

at this rate, the wingnuts leading the gop will have run themselves over the precipice by christmas and we'll have to spend 3 years bored to tears because congress might actually start working together and there won't be anything to poke fun at but bush. and we've already done that for 4 years...

not that he leaves us wanting for material... Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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