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Dems fight dirty in California

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 10:18 am
yuppers
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coachryan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 10:52 am
blatham wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
So ... are you pro-choice or not?


What I'm not is absolutist. Seat belt legislation is a pretty perfect example. Minimization of suffering seems the properly moral/ethical position even if that might sometimes be difficult to evaluate (as in the 'costs' to liberty in such a law weighed against the 'cost' to so many who do/will suffer in the absence of the law - plus the tax burden born by all as Set points to). In the seatbelt case, I don't have much trouble weighing consequences. Other cases can be far tougher, as with abortion.


I agree with you except that i don't think the moral/ethical point; although valid, is overridden by the free choice perspective. However the simple fact is when you get in a accident, and don't where a seat belt you make a huge mess, and someone has to pay to clean it up, I think there should be an insurance waiver you could purchase to exclude you from the seat belt law, But I also think the logistics of setting it up would be too costly and convoluted to be reasonable. Therefore I support the seatbelt laws! (Yeah a bit of a long strange trip.)

I also smoke (about a pack a week),but not in my house, even if it's -40 degrees outside. Even a dog know not to sh*t in his house.

I support laws that limit smoking in public places. There's no reason I should let my dirty, irresponsible habit, impact others, However I believe that bars and restaurants should be able to set their own policies regarding smoking. I think there's a market for non-smoking bars, if someone would try it. I also know there's a market for cigar bars, there's a bar here locally in madison that provides huka pipes with flavored tobacco (The kasbah is one of my faves). This is one place where I think market forces should rule supreme.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 10:58 am
Setanta wrote:
There was a lot of noise about helmet laws when i worked in hospitals in the 1970's. With both helmet laws and seat belt laws, for whatever one's personal beliefs may be, there is no denying the incredible costs to be associated with the trauma inflicted during and accident in which a helmet is not worn, or seat belts are not worn. That cost gets borne by us all, and it is enormous.

On the other hand, smokers and helmet-free bikers do save the Social Security and Medicare a lot of money by not living to collect benefits. If it should ever turn out that the net effect is a gain for the rest of society, I request that smoking be made compulsory, and helmets and seatbelts be outlawed.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 11:01 am
Won't work Thomas, one of the centerpieces of John Kennedy's agenda, passed after his death by Johnson, was the Social Security Survivors Act, and the Social Security Disability Act. Additionally, there is the Social Security Administration's Supplemental Security Income program. If it kills them, the widows and orphans collect. If it doesn't, they collect.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 11:03 am
That's interesting, Setanta. Social Security works a lot differently than its German counterpart then.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Apr, 2005 06:50 am
coachryan wrote
Quote:
I agree with you except that i don't think the moral/ethical point; although valid, is overridden by the free choice perspective.


Understood. My default position is for personal liberty as well but I don't hold it as an absolute good.
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