Revelation Greenspan admits he was wrong.

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Greenspan Renews Warning on Budget Deficits

Quote:

By Nell Henderson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 21, 2005; 3:06 PM

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said today that his support for tax cuts in early 2001 unintentionally encouraged policies that helped swing the federal budget from surplus to record deficits. In addition, he said for the first time explicitly that he expected tax increases to be part of any bipartisan agreement on deficit reduction.

But Greenspan, responding to questions during a Senate Budget Committee hearing today, said it was unfair for critics to ignore the warnings in his January 2001 congressional testimony that the surplus forecasts might be wrong, and his recommendation of some "trigger" mechanism that would limit tax cuts if certain budget targets were not met.

"I think its frankly unfair" for critics to blame him for the fact that Congress chose to "read half my testimony and discard the rest," Greenspan said, venting his frustration on the issue publicly for the first time, in response to a question from Sen. Paul Sarbanes (D-Md.).

Sarbanes chided the Fed chief that he is well aware of how Congress works, and he should have known lawmakers might not heed all his cautions.

Sarbanes said he believed it was "fair" for lawmakers to see Greenspan's 2001 remarks "as a green light to the tax cuts," which were enacted without any triggers.

"I plead guilty to that," Greenspan said. "I did not intend it that way."

Greenspan reminded Sarbanes that both parties were proposing tax cuts at the time, when government economists forecast budget surpluses "as far as the eye can see." In May 2001, Congress passed a reduced form of President Bush's proposal, a tax cut worth $1.35 trillion over 10 years.

Continued:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6620-2005Apr21.html
Greenspan finally admits he was wrong but whines about being blamed. Now if Bush will only get the message and press to have the tax cuts rescinded. At least those that benefit only the wealthy.
While he is at it he, Bush should press to have the prescription drug law reworked before it is implemented. Yes, the one that gave away the store to the insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

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Re: Revelation Greenspan admits he was wrong.

au1929 wrote:

Greenspan Renews Warning on Budget Deficits

Quote:

By Nell Henderson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 21, 2005; 3:06 PM

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said today that his support for tax cuts in early 2001 unintentionally encouraged policies that helped swing the federal budget from surplus to record deficits. In addition, he said for the first time explicitly that he expected tax increases to be part of any bipartisan agreement on deficit reduction.

But Greenspan, responding to questions during a Senate Budget Committee hearing today, said it was unfair for critics to ignore the warnings in his January 2001 congressional testimony that the surplus forecasts might be wrong, and his recommendation of some "trigger" mechanism that would limit tax cuts if certain budget targets were not met.

"I think its frankly unfair" for critics to blame him for the fact that Congress chose to "read half my testimony and discard the rest," Greenspan said, venting his frustration on the issue publicly for the first time, in response to a question from Sen. Paul Sarbanes (D-Md.).

Sarbanes chided the Fed chief that he is well aware of how Congress works, and he should have known lawmakers might not heed all his cautions.

Sarbanes said he believed it was "fair" for lawmakers to see Greenspan's 2001 remarks "as a green light to the tax cuts," which were enacted without any triggers.

"I plead guilty to that," Greenspan said. "I did not intend it that way."

Greenspan reminded Sarbanes that both parties were proposing tax cuts at the time, when government economists forecast budget surpluses "as far as the eye can see." In May 2001, Congress passed a reduced form of President Bush's proposal, a tax cut worth $1.35 trillion over 10 years.

Continued:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6620-2005Apr21.html
Greenspan finally admits he was wrong but whines about being blamed. Now if Bush will only get the message and press to have the tax cuts rescinded. At least those that benefit only the wealthy.
While he is at it he, Bush should press to have the prescription drug law reworked before it is implemented. Yes, the one that gave away the store to the insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

You want to raise taxes and have the govt pay for everyones drugs. What is it with you people and taxes. What is wrong with keeping the money we make, you didn't work for it so what makes you think I should have to hand it over? It is theft plain and simple!

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My Lipitor costs me $32 instead of a couple of hundred dollars. I thank all my fellow Australian taxpayers for supporting the Pharmaceutical Benefits System that allows me to get my much needed medicine wthout bankrupting me. The same goes for the other six tablets I have to take every day. If I had to pay full tote odds I'd be spending most of my income on medicines on a monthly basis. Food and rent would be optional. I suppose then that continued life would be optional.

I also thank the rest of my fellow taxpayers for everything else they do to make my country so liveable.

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A good diet and excercise would replace your lipitor quite handily.

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so would an early death

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McGentrix wrote:

A good diet and excercise would replace your lipitor quite handily.

You have to remember G the other side doesn't beleive in personal responsibility, they want the govt to take care of them so that they don't have to. To eat right and excerise would take time out of their hate Bush activities and those are much more important then ones personal health.

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So I take it you disagree with Greenspan then, Baldimo?

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nimh wrote:

So I take it you disagree with Greenspan then, Baldimo?

I didn't say that, I just don't think we need to rework the Rx plan. I don't always accept everything he says, he is after all human and is prone to mistakes. His word isn't golden. Besides I think it is time for him to move on anyways, he has been there for to long.

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McGentrix wrote:

A good diet and excercise would replace your lipitor quite handily.

Nope. It's not diet-related and not lifestyle-related. It's an inherited condition. Some conditions just can't be put down to a lack of personal responsibility. Perhaps I've been struck down because I don't like the Bushii. That must be it.

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McGentrix wrote:

A good diet and excercise would replace your lipitor quite handily.

When we see a graphic of your medical degree, McGentrix, plus the records of the tests you ran on Goodfielder to ascertain the cause of his condition, then we will consider your "diagnosis" as something other than than the arrogant spoutings of a right-wing True Believer.

What is it, McGentrix, did Fox News run a 15 minute segment on how exercise works better on some people than Lipitor, so now you're an expert? Did some radio talk show host come out with some tirade on this, so now you feel fit to give medical diagnoses in cyberspace?

Heart disease, of which cholesterol is a part, is nothing to fool around with. It is the height of both arrogance and ignorance for ANYONE to ever tell anyone what will replace his prescription without consulting a doctor who has examined the patient.

This just goes to show how hysterical the right wing media has gotten in this country. Guys like McGentrix listen to some hambone on the radio spouting off about diet vs Lipitor, and he becomes expert enough to tell someone he never met to put down his Lipitor. Unbelievable.

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Baldimo wrote:

You have to remember G the other side doesn't beleive in personal responsibility, they want the govt to take care of them so that they don't have to. To eat right and excerise would take time out of their hate Bush activities and those are much more important then ones personal health.

Same thing goes for you Baldimo. One unqualified nimrod takes it upon himself to give medical advice to someone he never met, and you join right in.

A lot of people die from heart attacks because they took it upon themselves to go off their medication, thinking sometimes that their own regimen of diet and exercise can replace it. It doesn't help matters when someone like McGentrix flippantly says that diet and exercise can replace another members prescribed medication, and you chime in endorsing that view.

I don't know where you and McGentrix get your blind arrogance from, but you have made it visible for the world to see.

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To those of you in cyber land who are reading this:

Do not ever, ever, EVER consider going off your prescription on the basis of "advice" given by individuals over the internet. Please consult your physician before ANY changes are made.

Seriously, going off your medication can, and often does, result in death.

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And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

I sat in disbelief listening to Greenspan "agree, but not really agree, but agree none the less" regarding the tax breaks Bush had proposed a few years ago. About the time I thought he was saying "no" he would change it around to sound like a "go ahead, it'll be okay."

He deserves whatever blame gets tossed his way, as far as I'm concerned. He was wishy-washy and obviously being politically correct rather than giving solid advice.

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I heard that on my radio this morning. I was thinking the bloke is independent what the heck's wrong with him?

I ratehr fear though that the damage has been done. The US economy is in trouble and that's "uh-oh" time for the rest of us.

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Dr.Baldimo
I too take the prescription drug lipitor. It was prescribed by my cardiologist after I had a heart attack. When I asked him if is it necessary his answer was only if you want to prevent another one.
As to reworking the prescription drug plan passed by congress. It is overpriced, far more than advertised by Bush . It is basically a plan written for the insurance and Pharmaceutical industries and not for the people on Medicare. And it a bad piece of legislation. If they cannot do better than that I for one believe it should be voided.

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kelticwizard wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
A good diet and excercise would replace your lipitor quite handily.

When we see a graphic of your medical degree, McGentrix, plus the records of the tests you ran on Goodfielder to ascertain the cause of his condition, then we will consider your "diagnosis" as something other than than the arrogant spoutings of a right-wing True Believer.

What is it, McGentrix, did Fox News run a 15 minute segment on how exercise works better on some people than Lipitor, so now you're an expert? Did some radio talk show host come out with some tirade on this, so now you feel fit to give medical diagnoses in cyberspace?

Heart disease, of which cholesterol is a part, is nothing to fool around with. It is the height of both arrogance and ignorance for ANYONE to ever tell anyone what will replace his prescription without consulting a doctor who has examined the patient.

This just goes to show how hysterical the right wing media has gotten in this country. Guys like McGentrix listen to some hambone on the radio spouting off about diet vs Lipitor, and he becomes expert enough to tell someone he never met to put down his Lipitor. Unbelievable.

Whew! That's quite the mouthful of venom you have there Kelticwizard!

My comment should not have been taken as medical advice, as it was not intended so. Lipitor is a statin drug used to lower cholesterol. Diet and excercise has also been shown to lower cholesterol. See the correlation there?

The rest of your tirade is just stupid. Perhaps Gump's mother was right.

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Greenspan is so accomplished in double speak that no one actually knows what he says. When appearing before congress he has them so confused they are reluctant to ask questions since they do not want to appear the fool. Having watched him on more than one occasion have always come away with, what did he say is he for or against. Or better still his answer is always tempered with a but and a maybe.

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Well then I can conclude Greenspan was wrong and he was right. Oh that's on the assumption he said anything worth listening to.

Anyway too late.

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goodfielder wrote:

My Lipitor costs me $32 instead of a couple of hundred dollars. I thank all my fellow Australian taxpayers for supporting the Pharmaceutical Benefits System that allows me to get my much needed medicine wthout bankrupting me.

To which McGentrix flippantly replied:

McGentrix wrote:

A good diet and excercise would replace your lipitor quite handily.

In other words, when goodfielder pointed out that government help has made medicine available to him that otherwise could not afford, McGentrix tried to dismiss goodfielder by claiming that he would not need the medication in the first place if he showed some will.

When I called him on this, McGentrix then tried to back off:

McGentrix wrote:

My comment should not have been taken as medical advice, as it was not intended so.

Sorry, but "handily" means "easily",and without problem or ado. Well, if you are going to substitute-McGentrix's word-diet and exercise for Lipitor you damn well better go through some ado, specifically go to your doctor and tell him that you plan to diet and exercise and lower or eliminate your Lipitor intake.

One of the tragedies of cardiovascular disease is that many people die when they go off their medication. Now we have people like McGentrix and Baldimo come along and post messages on boards stating that people can substitute diet and exercise for a life-saving drug "handily"-like there's nothing to it.

To which I repeat: that is an excruciatingly arrogant statement on McGentrix's part, one which illustrates his willingness to pass judgment in areas where he has absolutely no business to do so. And we are talking about life and death here.

McGentrix wrote:

Lipitor is a statin drug used to lower cholesterol. Diet and excercise has also been shown to lower cholesterol. See the correlation there?

Certainly. And if McGentrix's comment to goodfielder were "Have you considered going to your physician and working out a plan of diet and exercise as a possible substitute for medication somewhere down the line?", I would have no problem with the statement.

Unfortunately, McGentrix's statement was "A good diet and exercise would replace your lipitor quite handily", which implies that it was a simple thing, easily undertaken. Well, it isn't, and people with cardiovascular disease can do themselves great harm by deciding, on their own, to go off their medication even if they diet and exercise at the same time.

And let's face it, McGentrix wasn't interested in goodfielder's benefit here. He was attempting to dismiss goodfielder's point about government help making a drug available to him that he normally might not be able to afford by making it seem that with a little bit of willpower, goodfielder wouldn't even need the drug in the first place.

Perhaps McGentrix should redirect his "personal responsibility" theme away from areas he is not qualified to give advice on, such as the medical treatment of a person he never met, and extend it to examining the clear and harmful implications of his own statements on this board.

It is NOT a small thing to decide to substitute diet and exercise for a prescription medication. Going off one's medication is not something that can be done "handily", it is an important decision that should be done in consultation with a doctor.

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If I didn't know better, I'd think you worked as a pharmaceutical sales person.

The point I tried to make was that instead of having the government subsidize millions of dollars worth of drugs, perhaps personal responsibility should be the first line of defense.

I do not know Goodfielders medical history, nor do I care to as that's Goodfielders business, but you can hardly claim that every single person that gets their drugs subsidized through the government are deserving. some people are simply fat and lazy and have found a drug (statins) that allow them to keep their sedentary lifestyle. Instead of trying to diet and excercise they simply go to their doctor and tell them they want lipitor because they saw it on TV. I really do not beleive that other taxpayers should be burdened by another person's lifestyle choice.

So, Kelticwizard, how about stepping off the soapbox and try to think about what is truly being said instead of whatever it is that you believe is being said.

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Revelation Greenspan admits he was wrong.

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