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Confused on Religion! Need Insight

 
 
physgrad
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:54 am
Are you saying that the bible supports Darwinian Evolution?
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neologist
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:55 am
Who you askin that, mister?
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timberlandko
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:58 am
Not offeneded at all, neo. And of course The Bible does not preclude the realities of scientific discovery. It is the ignorant, selective, agenda-driven misapplication of Biblical tenets which does so.


"None so blind as who will not see ... ", and all that.
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neologist
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:58 am
physgrad wrote:
Are you saying that the bible supports Darwinian Evolution?
Oh! Was it me? Embarrassed
Evolutionarians make deductions based on their observation of fossil evidence. I say the fossil evidence does not contradict the bible. I do, however, take exception with their faith in speciation.
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neologist
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 12:07 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Not offeneded at all, neo. And of course The Bible does not preclude the realities of scientific discovery. It is the ignorant, selective, agenda-driven misapplication of Biblical tenets which does so.


"None so blind as who will not see ... ", and all that.

Wow! Do we have permission to enumerate the sins of the priestcraft? Where will I start? Sacrificing children to Baal? No, not Judeo-Christian. Er, Ah, the Crusades? No only Catholic. The blessing of battleships and cannons? Now were getting there.

Oh but wait. I have to control myself. I really should let the religionists have their say.
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physgrad
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 12:36 pm
Stories of Creation:

Bible: God made the earth, then light..(day and night)

Science: The sun came first.

All I'm saying is that the bible is not meant to be a scientific text, it just offered explanations to phenomena in a day and age when there were no other explanations. Its purpose is more to provide spiritual guidance. To insist that the bible satisfy modern scientific notions and ideas is not really a practical constraint.
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neologist
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 12:44 pm
physgrad wrote:
Stories of Creation:

Bible: God made the earth, then light..(day and night)

Science: The sun came first.

All I'm saying is that the bible is not meant to be a scientific text, it just offered explanations to phenomena in a day and age when there were no other explanations. Its purpose is more to provide spiritual guidance. To insist that the bible satisfy modern scientific notions and ideas is not really a practical constraint.
My bible at Genesis 1:1 says "In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth." No specification as to which came first. I asked my friend, Joe Sixpack, if he understood. He said yes.
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physgrad
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:48 pm
Sun/earth..the bible is ambiguous...so I concede that point

Ok, back to evolution, you mean to say you disagree with Darwinian evolution, more particularly, that we share genetic material with an ape..
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neologist
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:52 pm
physgrad wrote:
Sun/earth..the bible is ambiguous...so I concede that point

Ok, back to evolution, you mean to say you disagree with Darwinian evolution, more particularly, that we share genetic material with an ape..
If I say that we do share genetic material with apes, is that a deal breaker?
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booman2
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:59 pm
Physgrad...Neologist,
....Check out my signature line; inspired by god. And remember Grasshoppers:

.............."As God is love, God is thought,"
.................................................... -Book of The Boo Cool
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physgrad
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 04:59 pm
Isn't it?? God made us from clay and then breathed life into us..no apes in that picture...
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physgrad
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 05:03 pm
science as an explanation of God would stretch the limits of science..I'd with neo on that..we cannot apply scientific priciples to God, there is no evidence to suggest he is constrained by physical laws..

The god is thought is an interesting idea..

Also ure signature line is interesting so dont take this the wrong way..I just dont buy it..
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Merry Andrew
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 06:12 pm
Good stuff, guys. I'm reading along. Just don't have anything to add at this point. Well, maybe just this: anyone who takes the Bible (or any other text that's more than a couple of thousand years old) as literal truth, hasn't considered when, for whom, and under what circumstances the Book was written. It's not that there are any untruths in the Bible. It's that they were written down from the limited point of view and limited understanding of the people of that time and place. The truths may be universal; the method of their presentation is case-specific.
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Foxfyre
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 06:38 pm
Quote:
Good stuff, guys. I'm reading along. Just don't have anything to add at this point. Well, maybe just this: anyone who takes the Bible (or any other text that's more than a couple of thousand years old) as literal truth, hasn't considered when, for whom, and under what circumstances the Book was written. It's not that there are any untruths in the Bible. It's that they were written down from the limited point of view and limited understanding of the people of that time and place. The truths may be universal; the method of their presentation is case-specific.


It was also written by people who were writing for the benefit of themselves and thus omitted masses of details that would have been useful to those of us deciphering their intent and meaning a couple of millenia later. They saw no reason to describe or elaborate on what was perfectly obvious to them and perfectly obvious to their reading public.

It isn't much different from us now writing a short story about our house or our washing machine or our can opener. We would assume our reading public would know what those things are and we would feel no need to provide any details about their attributes, function, or purpose. It would be the same about describing activities of 'going nightclubbing' or "going to grade school' or 'going to the mall'. You would assume your readers knew what those things are and what you did in them, with them, at them, etc.

But a historian two thousand years from now might find the words, phrases, concept quite puzzling and draw very different conclusion from them than what you originally intended.

And that is why Andrew is right. It is necessary to go all the way back, learn the history, language, culture of the people of Bible times, and read the words through their eyes before we are in a position to either commend or condemn the Bible.

Once we do that, however, it is an amazing collection of literature and can enhance your understanding of God, faith, and what is reasonable to believe.
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booman2
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 06:50 pm
Merry Andrew,
....How can you say a book written by so many men, could have no untruths in it.
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Merry Andrew
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 06:57 pm
booman2 wrote:
Merry Andrew,
....How can you say a book written by so many men, could have no untruths in it.


I was referring to doctrinal untruths, Boo. There are certainly historical errors and a slew of claims that won't stand up to scientific inquiry. But these "errors" generally fall into one of two categories:
(1) Exaggerations, written from the point of view of the Hebrew people.
(2) Alegories which current-day fundamentalists insist on taking literally.

I never meant to imply that every word in the Bible is 100 percent the absolute truth. Just the fact that we have no originals -- only transcriptions and translations -- would make such a claim suspect.
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booman2
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 06:59 pm
Gotcha'
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booman2
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:00 pm
Gotcha'
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physgrad
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:01 pm
fox..interesting way of putting it..kinda like trying to read this thread backwards..

Also..boomn..isnt (most) truth the best knowledge that we possess at a given instant of time, its always a variable, a function of time, and as such we are all constrained from reaching absolute truth by our own finite existence..
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real life
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:07 pm
timberlandko wrote:
The stellar lifecycle is a well documented phenomenon.

Even the proponents of this theory admit that for a galaxy to arise out of dust and gas would take a long time. Many years according to some. Thousands of years according to others.

Now tell me again who has documented this process from beginning to end?

Piecing various observed stellar formations and situations into a storyboard to support an unobserved phenomenon that you hope happened is the work of fiction, not of science.

timberlandko wrote:
The discussion is quite understandable. Don't let the math scare you; it works. The pictures are pretty, too.

And of course another cheap shot from you. It is to be expected.
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