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Government Documents on Torture

 
 
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 02:20 pm
Surprised that more people haven't seen this one.

Quote:
Torture FOIA
March 7, 2005

Government Documents on Torture
Freedom of Information Act

The ACLU filed a request on Oct. 7, 2003 under the Freedom of Information Act demanding the release of information about detainees held overseas by the United States. A lawsuit was filed in June 2004 demanding that the government comply with the October 2003 FOIA request.

Below are documents the government did not want the general public to read -- including an FBI Memo (pdf) stating that Defense Department interrogators impersonated FBI agents and used "torture techniques" against a detainee at Guantanamo.

The public has a right to know.


Department of Defense, agencies agree on 'Ghost Detainees' 3/9/05

Army and Navy records, investigations of detainee abuse in Iraq 3/7/05

Defense Department Documents 2/18/05

Army Records 1/24/05

FBI, e-mails of McCraw inquiry into detainee abuse in Guantanamo 1/5/05

Army, investigations of detainee abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan 12/21/04

FBI, e-mails of FBI agents witnessing the use of "torture techniques" in Guantanamo 12/20/04

Navy, investigations of detainee abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan 12/14/04

Defense Intelligence Agency, State Department and FBI, detainee abuse by Task Force 626 in Iraq is reported, e-mails express concern about interrogation methods. 12/7/04

Defense Department, Taguba report 10/19/04

Office of Information and Privacy, Defense Department, Army and FBI, the Ryder Report 10/15/04

Careful review of these documents demonstrates that many other critical records have not been released. We will continue to fight for the public's right to know what the government's policies were, why these abuses were allowed to take place, and who was ultimately responsible, and encourage you to join the alliance to get these records released.


Folks,

we have a serious problem on our hands here. I'd like those of you who don't think the US has a problem with torture to read some of the documents above, and then help me answer some questions I have:

Do you think it is correct that we do such things?

Do you think it adds to the fight against terrorism?

Is it morally correct to torture?

Is it effective to torture?

Are our problems stemming from the culture at the top?

What can we do to pressure change in the system of interrogations?

----------------

Here's a sample of one section, of ONE of the documents:

Quote:
5/24/04 Abu Ghraib Investigation into death of Ibrahim Hamadan Sudhail in custody. Sudhail was allegedly involved in attack against elements of 1st Marine Expeditionary Force in Fallujah and was brought to Abu Ghraib on or about April 29th, 2004. He died in custody on May 21st. Cause of death was determined to be "peritonitis as a consequence of a gunshot wound to the abdomen" (9112). The file has been closed.

That's right, he died because he was shot in the stomach. {edit} Perhaps while under captivity; the record is not clear.

Every American should be ashamed of the things being done in our name....

Cycloptichorn
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 02:26 pm
Which article is that quote from? It says that he died while in custody but doesn't say anything about being shot while in custody... at least that is the way I am reading it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 02:34 pm
The quote is from an Army CID record of investigation, which you can find here:

http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030705/9111_9116.pdf

The quote is actually a general description of the record.

Upon reading the record, it seems that the wound was 'during the assualt on Fallujah.' Though it seems rather odd to me that the man would go untreated and die of perionitis, there is no proof that he was shot in captivity. I'll redact that line.

It's important to note that if you actually follow the links, there are hundreds and hundreds of different cases listed, as well as policy discussions etc... I urge everyone to read!!!

Cycloptichorn
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 02:35 pm
I can see the descriptions but can not view the entire pdf files... are they working for you?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 02:38 pm
Yeah, just slow to load.

Cycloptichorn
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 03:08 pm
Page 33 of this pdf:

http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030705/8341_8416.pdf

is a pretty interesting interview. The guy seems to be pretty candid and honest.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 04:24 pm
I think the WORLD has a huge problem with torture.

Here is an Amnesty document looking at it:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-313/index

It is a world problem which countries like the USA - and the UK and Oz - love to criticize others for - but not to admit to in themselves.

Here is Amnesty on torture and the USA in the war on terror:

Summary

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511462004

Full Report:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511452004


Here is a response to a "torture is right in this situation" scenario:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/askamnesty/torture200112.html




Here is some more stuff on the USA and torture:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/askamnesty/russia200212_1.html

http://www.amnestyusa.org/askamnesty/torture200210.html
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 06:28 pm
Well, it could be postulated that one of the myriad of reasons for the invasion was to cease the torture that Saddam and his spawn were perpetrating against the citizens of Iraq.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 08:24 pm
Only to replace it with torture of our own?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 08:48 pm
That's why abusing the word "torture" doesn't do anyone justice. Torture is the most extreme form of abuse. When you start throwing the term around, it loses it's real meaning.

What happened in Abu Ghraib when Saddam was in charge compared to what happened when the US was in charge isn't even comparable. Yet you have no problem using the same language to describe both. I believe that to be both disingenuous and offensive.

The word torture is used to describe corporal punishment by the left and has been used so often they are brainwashed as to what it truly means to be tortured.

Shame on you.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 08:57 pm
Bull, McG!

Read some of the links I provided and you'll see everything from religious and sexual humiliation to beatings, violence, rape, and killings. That's not 'corpral punishment.'

Here's one of the cases which was actually investigated and found guilty:

Quote:
Incident date: 6/21/03

Investigation into an incident of two soldiers assaulting an Iraqi civilian who had been taken into custody of the US Army - near Iraq Museum of Military History, Baghdad, Iraq. Investigation established probable cause to believe that the two soldiers committed the offense of assault and dereliction of duty when they assaulted an Iraqi citizen. Acts included forcing detainee to hold a pistol so soldier could have excuse for shooting detainee. Only one of the soldiers was found guilty and given a reduction in rank.


There are hundreds more than this that were labelled 'insufficient evidence to prove or disprove charges.'

Here's another one for you:

http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/navy3706.3713.pdf

Quote:
Table includes 10 substantiated incidents, 10 unsubstantiated incidents and one "other" (detainee death investigated with no allegation of abuse), 3 investigations pending. Includes details of incidents. Substantiated incidents include: beating detainees with fists; holding pistol to detainee's head while another Marine took a picture, and photographing detainee with American Flag draped over detainee's body (Karbala, Iraq); spraying detainee with fire extinguisher; electric shocking detainee (Al Mahmudiya, Iraq); burning detainee's hands (2nd degree burns) (Al Mumudiyah, Iraq).[/size]


Tell me that electric shocks, beatings, and 2nd degree burns aren't torture. Go ahead.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 09:55 pm
McGentrix wrote:
That's why abusing the word "torture" doesn't do anyone justice. Torture is the most extreme form of abuse. When you start throwing the term around, it loses it's real meaning.

What happened in Abu Ghraib when Saddam was in charge compared to what happened when the US was in charge isn't even comparable. Yet you have no problem using the same language to describe both. I believe that to be both disingenuous and offensive.

The word torture is used to describe corporal punishment by the left and has been used so often they are brainwashed as to what it truly means to be tortured.

Shame on you.

The fact that Saddam's regime tortured people has no bearing on actions by our government.

I find your attempt at deflection distasteful; it's like hearing someone say, "yeah, I'm driving drunk but that other guy was way drunker than me."
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2005 11:09 pm
Perhaps Wikipedia may help this discussion not go off track:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture


"Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions. Sometimes torture is practiced even when it appears to have little or no functional purpose beyond the gratification of the torturer or because it has become the norm within the context.

Torture is an extreme violation of human rights. Signatories of the Third Geneva Convention agree not to commit torture under certain circumstances in wartime, and signatories of the UN Convention Against Torture agree to not commit certain specific forms of torture. These conventions and agreements notwithstanding, it is estimated by organisations such as Amnesty International that around 2/3 of countries do not consistently abide by the spirit of such treaties. Realistically, torture or similar techniques have been a tool of many states throughout history and for many states they remain so (when expedient and desired, and often unofficially) today."


There is a great deal more on that site.


However, perhaps we might agree that, just as it was irrelevant to a discussion of how brutal Hussein was, that Hitler tormented and murdered many more people - it is also irrelevant to a discussion of possible US infliction of torture, that Hussein was a frightful individual who murdered and tormented many of his citizens?

Can we just take that as read? That we all accept that the world is filled with frightfulness, that many countries have treated their own, and other, unfortunate people very badly? That the US is a fine country whose current level of power and world domination make its behaviour important? That we KNOW Hussein was terrible, Stalin worse? That terrible things are happening in the Congo, Somalia, Darfur - every damned where? Looking at America does not negate any of thisd.

Might we still be able to discuss this matter despite this?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 10:14 pm
The UK parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee released its annual report on human rights Friday, accusing the US of committing "grave violations of human rights" against prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Afghanistan and Iraq.
The committee has recommended that the British government "make it clear to the United States administration, both in public and private, that such treatment of detainees is unacceptable."

The report also calls on UK officials to clear up whether it uses intelligence passed on by other countries that may have been gathered by torturing suspects, saying that "to operate a general policy of use of information extracted under torture would be to condone and even to encourage torture by repressive states."

The committee's report is not yet available online.


Quote:
UK Lawmakers Accuse U.S. of Grave Rights Violations

Mar 24, 7:24 PM (ET)

LONDON (Reuters) - The United States has committed "grave violations of human rights" against prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Afghanistan and Iraq, the Foreign Affairs Committee of Britain's parliament said in a report on Friday.

The report also called on the British government to make clear whether it uses intelligence passed on by other countries that may have been gathered by torturing suspects.

"We conclude that United States personnel appear to have committed grave violations of human rights of persons held in detention in various facilities in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay and Afghanistan," the committee wrote in its influential annual report on human rights.

"We recommend that the government make it clear to the United States administration, both in public and private, that such treatment of detainees is unacceptable."

The committee said it was "surprising and unsettling" that the government had twice failed to answer whether London receives information extracted under torture by a third country.

"The arguments for evaluating information which purports to give details of, for example, an impending terrorist attack, whatever its provenance, are compelling," the committee said.

"We further conclude, however, that to operate a general policy of use of information extracted under torture would be to condone and even to encourage torture by repressive states."

The treatment of prisoners at the U.S. military camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and the rising threat from terrorism has sparked a heated debate in Britain about torture.

Human rights groups have criticized conditions at the camp and interrogation techniques including sleep deprivation or subjecting detainees to extreme temperatures, some of which they say are akin to torture.

The committee also called for better training of British troops on the treatment of prisoners to prevent further abuses of inmates like those seen in Iraq since the conflict.

Four British soldiers were convicted of abuse last month and other cases are ongoing, although there has been no suggestion that Britain authorized the sort of aggressive interrogations used by the Americans.

Lawmakers also waded into the row over China's arms embargo, opposing the lifting of the European Union's ban on arms sales.

"The raising of the EU arms embargo on China would send the wrong signal at this time, in the absence of strong undertakings from the Chinese government to address human rights issues," the report said.

The EU, keen to boost trade and diplomatic ties with China, agreed last year to aim to lift the ban by the end of June. It was imposed after the 1989 crackdown on Tiananmen Square protests.

But China's passing of a law last week granting itself the right to use force to curtail independence moves by Taiwan has made countries including Britain more wary of the move, which Washington fears would give China access to advanced weaponry.


SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Mar, 2005 07:11 am
Started a new thread about the above yesterday.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Mar, 2005 07:13 am
Quote:
Sat 26 Mar 2005

US probe unveils new Iraq jail abuse claims

ALAN MCEWEN


A US Army investigation found systematic abuse and possible torture of Iraqi prisoners at a base near the city of Mosul, just as top military officials became aware of abuse allegations at Abu Ghraib, newly-released documents show.

Records previously released by the army have detailed abuses at Abu Ghraib, outside Baghdad, and other sites in Iraq, as well as at sites in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The new documents, released last night, were the first to reveal abuses at the jail in Mosul and are among the few to allege torture directly.

An officer found that detainees "were being systematically and intentionally mistreated" at the holding facility in December 2003. The 311th Military Intelligence Battalion of the army's 101st Airborne Division ran the lockup.

"There is evidence that suggests the 311th MI personnel and/or translators engaged in physical torture of the detainees," a memo from the investigator said. The January 2004 report said the prisoners' rights under the Geneva Conventions were violated.

The military became aware of the Abu Ghraib abuses in January 2004, when pictures were turned over to investigators. The resulting uproar after the pictures became public tarnished the military's image worldwide and sparked investigations of detainee abuses.

The records about the Mosul jail were part of more than 1200 pages of documents referring to allegations of prisoner abuse. The army released the records to reporters and to the American Civil Liberties Union, which had filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.

"They show the torture and abuse of detainees was routine, and such treatment was considered an acceptable practice by US forces," ACLU lawyer Amrit Singh said.

Guards at the detention facility near Mosul came from at least three infantry units of the 101st Airborne, including an air-defence artillery unit. The investigating officer, whose name was blacked out of the documents, said the troops were poorly trained and were encouraged to abuse prisoners.

According to the report, the abuse included:

• Forcing detainees to perform exercises such as deep knee bends for hours on end, to the point of exhaustion;

• Blowing cigarette smoke into the sandbags the prisoners were forced to wear as hoods;

• Throwing cold water on prisoners in a room that was between 40 degrees (4.4 Celsius) and 50 degrees (ten Celsius);

• Blasting the detainees with heavy-metal music, yelling at them and banging on doors and ammunition cans.

No-one was punished for the abuses, because the investigating officer said there was insufficient proof against any individual. The report did not say what actions might have amounted to torture or the individuals who might have committed them. The investigator ruled that troops were responsible for the broken jaw of a 20-year-old detainee who had been rounded up with his father, a suspected member of the Fedayeen Saddam guerrilla group.

The records also contained details of other abuse investigations. In one, soldiers admitted they had rounded up suspected looters near Baghdad in the summer of 2003, stripped them naked and told them to walk home.

The staff sergeant in charge of that unit said he knew what he did was wrong, but he wanted to humiliate the looters so much they would never return.

The sergeant was given an "other than honourable" discharge, and two other soldiers involved in the stripping incident were given letters of reprimand, said army spokesman Col Jeremy Martin.

In another incident, soldiers from a Howitzer battery beat three detainees in September 2003. Col Martin said all four received non-judicial punishment, which can include letters of reprimand, fines or reductions in rank.

The soldiers said they were angered by what the detainees had done. One prisoner had shot at US soldiers while hiding behind a group of children, they claimed, and another was accused of forging passports for possible terrorists.

"I think any American and soldier would have acted as I did," a soldier wrote in a statement.
source
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Mar, 2005 07:15 am
Oops - Walter - neglected to acknowledge your authoring of that post!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Mar, 2005 07:18 am
No problem - didn't even notice that Laughing
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 11:09 am
Mistreatment is one thing. Tourture is something more extreme.

When we start wacking the heads off people, get back to me.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 11:18 am
Quit trolling.

Anyways, cutting people's heads off isn't torture at all. It's execution. Torture is what you do to get information before executing people.

But let me ask you, Woiyo: you don't believe that electrical shocks, severe beatings, 2nd degree burns, starvation and dehydration, lacerations, and dog bites are torture? Exactly what do you believe IS torture?

Sheesh

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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