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Have atheists redefined science to get rid of God?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 07:14 pm
"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain in Eruption
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 07:20 pm
thats good but its not the one Im thinkin of. I have a bookmark with some quotes but, to tell the truth, my bookmark and FAvorites sorting logic really sucks.
I arrange my geology alphabetically and everything else in a fashion that doesnt require thought, unless i later wish to retrieve the info. Thats my problem at present. I need to go in the "attic" and clear out and sweep up.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 07:27 pm
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."
Mark Twain
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 07:29 pm
But I like this one: "In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards."
Mark Twain
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 07:35 pm
The second to last was it. "without examination"
OOOH the school board one was excellent . I have a use for that one.
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gospelmancan2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:33 pm
Setanta wrote:
You know, you jokers come here full of contempt for everyone here, before anyone has posted a single response. You're "blessed" with "revealed truth," and you don't come here to debate, to learn or to teach--you come here to confirm the propaganda which has been fed you about "evolutionists." You can't see that religion and science are apples and oranges, and not at all comparable.

I see little debate coming from you. (unless debate is attacking anything you don't agree with) As for learning and teaching, all I want to do is encourage others to look beyond the conclusions of others and form their own opinions. I am not validated by how many people I convince. I don't get a notch in my Bible for everyone I "convert." If you agree or disagree with me that is your business. I do believe in Jesus and I believe that I have good reasons for doing so. My choice. Others believe what they choose to believe. Their choice.
As for evolution as the origin of man, I have yet to see anything that would convince me that it is anything but conjecture. No proof. I have read lots of words that state that it is so, but no direct physical evidence to support it.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:36 pm
Quote:
I have read lots of words that state that it is so, but no direct physical evidence to support it.

I know, that physical evidence crap is in tables and maps and full of statistics. Its all crap, we know it
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gospelmancan2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:37 pm
farmerman wrote:

If we assume that unstable isotopes were first formed in roughlt equal amounts (and there is no reason to assume otherwise)

Anything based on an assumption is not proof but conjecture.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:37 pm
Quote, " No proof. I have read lots of words that state that it is so, but no direct physical evidence to support it." You've been spending too much time reading the bible.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:45 pm
gospel, If you're looking for proof to support evolution like the proof you have for "creation," then please refer to this link. It's a beginning, but there are many more out there in search-land. You have only one book that supports "creationism," but thousands upon thousands of scientific research papers that supports evolution. You have probably only read some "scientific" papers written by christian scientists that refutes evolution. Try reading some scientific findings on evolution written by respected scientists and universities.

http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:49 pm
the "proof" is that the isotopic ratio for U238 to U235 is 140 to i, "the world around. OK, Ill be open to any other conjecture. How did two isotopes with differing half lives come to have such varying occurences, if not by decay? Are you saying that 235 and 238 were at differing ratios originally? How do you then convince me of the final ratios of the final decay products like Pb 210, 207 and all the elements at At wts greater than about 40 are all in a simple ratio of abundance. Do you even understand the questions youve asked?
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extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:53 pm
farmerman wrote:
the "proof" is that the isotopic ratio for U238 to U235 is 140 to i, "the world around. OK, Ill be open to any other conjecture. How did two isotopes with differing half lives come to have such varying occurences, if not by decay? Are you saying that 235 and 238 were at differing ratios originally? How do you then convince me of the final ratios of the final decay products like Pb 210, 207 and all the elements at At wts greater than about 40 are all in a simple ratio of abundance. Do you even understand the questions youve asked?


um, well, according to the ancestral lineage I have here outlined in this book here, the earth can't be much older than 8,000 years or so. Sorry, you must be wrong. :wink:
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:57 pm
em, According to your profile, you're a nobody. LOL
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extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:04 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
em, According to your profile, you're a nobody. LOL


LOL. Well, at least I'm honest about it and not trying to be an imposter :wink:
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gospelmancan2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:07 pm
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
I have read lots of words that state that it is so, but no direct physical evidence to support it.

I know, that physical evidence crap is in tables and maps and full of statistics. Its all crap, we know it

I have no problem with physical evidence, I just have a problem with the conclusions formed and the way evidence has been manipulated to bring the desired and prechosen conclusion.
As my ol' Daddy used to say... Figures don't lie but liars do figure.
Where is the proof? If there is no proof then creation is as valid as evolution as a conjectural argument.
To prove the law of gravity, I don't need tables or charts or reams of esoteric babble by people who are self proclaimed experts. I need only throw a ball up in the air to see if it comes down. Boyle's law of gasses is equally easy to prove. If evolution is as solid as gravity or Boyle's law, then the proof should be as clear and simple. Otherwise it could just be smoke and mirrors.
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gospelmancan2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:22 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
gospel, If you're looking for proof to support evolution like the proof you have for "creation," then please refer to this link. It's a beginning, but there are many more out there in search-land. You have only one book that supports "creationism," but thousands upon thousands of scientific research papers that supports evolution.

There could be billions of papers to support the notion that the moon is really a paper cutout but that would not make it so.
There was a time when science believed the earth was flat. There was a time when science believed that malaria was caued by night vapors. There was a time when science believed that you could tell all about someone by the bumps on their head. There were a large number of papers to support all these things at the time and they were accepted as valid. That still did not make any of it true.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:23 pm
gospelmancan2 wrote:
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
I have read lots of words that state that it is so, but no direct physical evidence to support it.

I know, that physical evidence crap is in tables and maps and full of statistics. Its all crap, we know it

I have no problem with physical evidence, I just have a problem with the conclusions formed and the way evidence has been manipulated to bring the desired and prechosen conclusion.
As my ol' Daddy used to say... Figures don't lie but liars do figure.
Where is the proof? If there is no proof then creation is as valid as evolution as a conjectural argument.
To prove the law of gravity, I don't need tables or charts or reams of esoteric babble by people who are self proclaimed experts. I need only throw a ball up in the air to see if it comes down. Boyle's law of gasses is equally easy to prove. If evolution is as solid as gravity or Boyle's law, then the proof should be as clear and simple. Otherwise it could just be smoke and mirrors.


Go back and read Farmers post on the decay of radioisotopes. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it isn't as easily provable as Boyle's law.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:25 pm
gospelmancan2 wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
gospel, If you're looking for proof to support evolution like the proof you have for "creation," then please refer to this link. It's a beginning, but there are many more out there in search-land. You have only one book that supports "creationism," but thousands upon thousands of scientific research papers that supports evolution.

There could be billions of papers to support the notion that the moon is really a paper cutout but that would not make it so.
There was a time when science believed the earth was flat. There was a time when science believed that malaria was caued by night vapors. There was a time when science believed that you could tell all about someone by the bumps on their head. There were a large number of papers to support all these things at the time and they were accepted as valid. That still did not make any of it true.

Really? There were a lot of scientific papers claiming the world was flat? I guess your pappy didn't warn you about making up stories.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:33 pm
Phrenology was a short lived fad pushed by a few people. It was never widely accepted.

That would be like claiming that science says fat burning pills work. Just because some nuts did a study that they claim proves something doesn't mean it is widely accepted in scientific circles.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:39 pm
By the way gospelman..

where is your concrete proof that God exists. I can throw a bible up and it proves Gravity is real but it doesn't prove anything about God. Shouldn't you have the same standard for proof of God that you demand of science? Logic says you should. I can test Boyle's law but there is no test for God. I guess that proves there is no God if we have to follow your standard.
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