9
   

“Amazon isn’t giving its employees a raise, they’re taking money from us,”

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 08:05 pm
@vikorr,
Amazon is an incredibly successful, innovative company that is changing retail and internet infrastructure. They are at the forefront of quite a few big trends in retail, big data and robots.

That is a fact.

I am pretty sure that we are using Amazon technology right now (if someone who works for Able2know could confirm that).


neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 08:10 pm
@maxdancona,
And they're screwing their warehouse picker/packers out of money.

You can't have it both ways.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 08:15 pm
@neptuneblue,
It is worse than that Neptune, they are replacing picker/packers with robots.



These things aren't getting bonuses Wink

I never got to work with these little guys. I did some work with a similar system... watching them work in the warehouse is pretty cool.



maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 08:21 pm
Interesting enough... Bernie Sanders is praising Amazon for this policy change.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 08:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Amazon is an incredibly successful, innovative company that is changing retail and internet infrastructure. They are at the forefront of quite a few big trends in retail, big data and robots.

That is a fact.

I am pretty sure that we are using Amazon technology right now (if someone who works for Able2know could confirm that).
And how is their success or otherwise related to the original post & discussion we were having related to that OP?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 08:25 pm
@vikorr,
You brought up creating an environment of innovation. I was responding to that.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 09:03 pm
@maxdancona,
You mentioned that I would do the same as Amazon - I was pointing out that I wouldn't, and why.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 09:12 pm
@maxdancona,
What I saw was movable storage bins brought to pickers and packers. There's 380,00 people that work for Amazon. Yes, technology has been advanced for the industry. But you still will not acknowledge people run business.

It seems you just want to fight about anything and every thing. These people got hosed and not only are you ok with that, you welcome it. That's not how business is supposed to be.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 10:02 pm
@neptuneblue,
I know this from personal experience. The technology replaces humans. Those "movable storage bins" and robot pushing packages up conveyor belts, and shunting machines, cameras and all of the other technology means that they don't have to hire humans.

I am a software engineer... they usually keep me in a dark corner behind a keyboard... but once in a while they let us out to see our technology in action. In my last job, I went to a warehouse for a book distributor (not Amazon). They had a giant warehouse that once would have required up to 100 people. The warehouse was being run by 4 or 5 people.

The is no question... the entire purpose of automation is to eliminate jobs for humans. That is the way it makes sense, saves money, and lowers costs for consumers.

P.S. (just to respond to the irrelevant tangent because I can't help myself any more than you can). Obviously, you also want to fight "about everything", or you wouldn't be responding. I don't respond to (or complain about) posts that don't interest me. You shouldn't either.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2018 11:22 pm
Which Is Better? A Raise Or Bonus at Work?

By Mike Collins on September 9

Quote:
My buddy Jim called me the other day and told me about an interesting decision his boss asked him to make. Jim works for a small company and had just been given his annual performance review with his manager. Obviously, Jim was anxious to learn what kind of salary increase he’d be getting, but his boss through a curveball at him and actually offered him a choice.

Here are Jim’s options as he explained them to me over the phone. Option one is to receive a salary increase of three percent with no bonus eligibility. Option two is to receive a five percent bonus for the year but no salary increase.

Which do you think is the better option?

At first glance many people would grab the bonus. The reason that five percent is better than three percent so that must be the way to go.

But let’s think about it for a minute shall we?

I don’t know what your salary is so let’s just choose a random number and say you earn $50,000 a year.

If you choose the three percent raise your salary will be bumped to $51,500 next year. If you decide to go with the bonus, your salary will remain $50,000 but the bonus will push your actual income up to $52,500.

That’s an extra thousand dollars in your pocket so you might be tempted to just go with the bonus. But if you dig a little deeper that extra grand could be costing you a lot more in the long run.

By passing up on the raise you keep your salary set in stone and miss out on the magic of compound interest. And it doesn’t take long before that smaller salary increase compounds into far more than you’d earn with a bigger bonus.

Let’s stretch our earlier example out a bit and say you are given the same decision for ten years in a row.

We already know that you’ll earn more in the first year if you choose the bonus, but what about year two and beyond? The simple chart below will help illustrate the point.
https://www.debtroundup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/raise-vs-bonus1.jpg
The bonus would yield you the same $52,500 since your base salary is the same, and your two-year earnings would total $105,000. But if you choose the salary increase you’d earn $53,045 (an additional increase of $1,545 on top of the previous year’s salary of $51,500) and your two-year earnings would total $104,545. The thousand dollar gap has shrunk to just $455.

By year three, the pendulum has swung in the other direction and your total earnings is greater when you choose the raise over the bonus. And the difference only grows more and more as the years go by. After ten years the cumulative difference has grown to an amazing $65,389.78! That’s how much you’d be leaving on the table of you chose the bonus over the raise.

A Final Note

Bonuses are never guaranteed and when the economy takes a nosedive or a company has an off-year they can easily pull the plug on bonuses. But salary increases are much harder to take away and that guaranteed money is another reason to consider the raise over the bonus.

Without looking through the math, what would you choose? Salary increase or bonus?

https://www.debtroundup.com/which-is-better-a-raise-or-a-bonus/
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2018 12:00 am
@Real Music,
IRL his salary would not stay the same for that many years.

A company I worked for would at times have to freeze a managers salary, and would instead give a bonus. They would do this because sometimes the persons salary would be over market. However, after a few years they would unfreeze the salary, as the market would catch up.

I can’t imagine that the employee would figure that out if they intended to stay long term.

One thing a lot of employees couldn’t get through their heads was that even though a bonus, either performance, Xmas or what have you, is taxed at the maximum rate, but they actually wasn’t getting screwed.

They couldn’t seem to reconcile the fact that even though they were getting less at the time, it would all wash at tax time by either owing less or getting a bigger refund.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2018 12:09 am
Annual Bonus vs. Base Pay: How to Avoid Golden
Handcuffs Compensation - Job Offer Tips.

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2018 12:41 am
@Real Music,
These are good points RM

Back to the Amazon situation, isn't it that incentives that are added to their pay, like given monthly or quarterly?

That's what I have personally experienced with things like that.

For line workers, sure they may get a holiday bonus which is a small percentage of salary, but the bigger money comes close to the time they surpassed metrics.

Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2018 01:10 am
@chai2,
I don't have enough detailed specific information regarding the Amazon situation. So, my post are catered more toward a general discussion about base pay vs. bonuses. Not enough information about the Amazon situation has been provided for me to be able to comment. It is very difficult to comment on the Amazon situation without first having additional information provided. Since the Amazon situation does involve a discussion regarding base pay vs, bonuses, that is why I can at least post on the general topic of base pay vs. bonuses. If anyone does have more specific detailed information about the Amazon situation, that would help guide the conversation more specific to Amazon.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2018 11:44 am
@Real Music,
There are a couple of faults with this as well though - there is no mention that your salary would increase by 3% each year. Similar to the bonus - your increase is salary each year is not guaranteed and if a company does not do well one year - there could be no salary increase at all.

Quote:
Bonuses are never guaranteed and when the economy takes a nosedive or a company has an off-year they can easily pull the plug on bonuses. But salary increases are much harder to take away and that guaranteed money is another reason to consider the raise over the bonus.


Unlike what is stated here - salary increases can go away - I have personally seen it at my work - last year was the first increase I had in several years. My husband has not had a salary increase in 5 years so I do think this is a faulty claim.

However, on the positive of the salary increase that is not noted here - many benefits are based on your "base" salary so what you earn without considering a bonus. For example a bonus itself is usually a percentage of your base pay; 401k company matches will be based on a percentage; life insurance is usually your annual salary or double or triple your annual salary; if you work overtime it be time and half of your hourly pay.

Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2018 11:51 am
@Linkat,
Yes. The points you made are all good points.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2018 06:36 pm
I've seen news articles where people have reported that working in an Amazon fulfillment center is like being in a prison. Apparently, fulfillment workers have to meet high productivity targets which they have a chance of meeting only if they run around the warehouse.

These articles said that they don't have proper breaks. By the time they get to the lunch room, they only have 15 or 20 minutes to eat, in what is often a working day longer than 8 hours.

And, even worse, workers often didn't take a break to go to the toilet because bathrooms were too distant to get to quickly and they feared punishment for missing productivity targets. I read that someone found a bottle of urine on a shelf in an Amazon warehouse. Apparently, some worker urinated into it rather than risk punishment.

For the amount of money some people at Amazon are making, they might think about treating their workers better.
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2018 06:51 pm
@Brandon9000,
Wow!!!
If those news articles are accurate, that is a real eye opener.
And also quite disturbing.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2018 01:21 pm
@Brandon9000,
Apparently, Gazillionaire Jeff Bezos has adopted the Nike model of employee practices.

How can that be when he owns WaPo?

Just like Nike he is cynical enough to play the group that is most likely to challenge his practices. It works too.

As for the title of this thread, the OP obviously has no idea of how free markets operate. Consumers flock to Amazon for low prices and then some of them bitch about how those low prices are achieved. If you want Amazon employees to be well paid and have great benefits then you need to be willing to spend more money on its products. But no, these idealists think that business owners should reduce their profits or lose money to make them feel good about getting really cheap goods.

Consumers don't have to buy on Amazon. If they do they are saying, "I don't really care how you get these products at these prices, I just want them."

The Soviets tried to control free markets and the result was empty shelves.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2018 01:40 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Apparently, Gazillionaire Jeff Bezos has adopted the Nike model of employee practices.

How can that be when he owns WaPo?

Just like Nike he is cynical enough to play the group that is most likely to challenge his practices. It works too.

As for the title of this thread, the OP obviously has no idea of how free markets operate. Consumers flock to Amazon for low prices and then some of them bitch about how those low prices are achieved. If you want Amazon employees to be well paid and have great benefits then you need to be willing to spend more money on its products. But no, these idealists think that business owners should reduce their profits or lose money to make them feel good about getting really cheap goods.

Consumers don't have to buy on Amazon. If they do they are saying, "I don't really care how you get these products at these prices, I just want them."

The Soviets tried to control free markets and the result was empty shelves.

There is no ethical excuse for treating employees like slaves. They should stop it, no matter what it takes.
 

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