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Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:39 pm
Terri did not choose to refuse nutrition and water. It was chosen for her. That's the difference.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:39 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Not only that, Foxy, but many sane people every day of the year put a dynamite stick in their mouths and blow themselves to kingdom come very peacefully. It's actually a very beautiful form of death. I find it abhorrent that you would stop these people from blowing their heads to the consistency of apple sauce. For shame.

Scoff if you like, but my point remains valid. Guess you couldn't come up with something better to refute it....
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:40 pm
DrewDad wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Not only that, Foxy, but many sane people every day of the year put a dynamite stick in their mouths and blow themselves to kingdom come very peacefully. It's actually a very beautiful form of death. I find it abhorrent that you would stop these people from blowing their heads to the consistency of apple sauce. For shame.

Scoff if you like, but my point remains valid. Guess you couldn't come up with something better to refute it....

I think I'll scoff, thanks.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:41 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Terri did not choose to refuse nutrition and water. It was chosen for her. That's the difference.

I'm not talking about Terri. I'm talking about your vow to work to see that no one is ever dehydrated to death again.

If you're saying now that you want to work on clarifying the law, then go for it. But that's different from what you said earlier in the thread.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:41 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Not only that, Foxy, but many sane people every day of the year put a dynamite stick in their mouths and blow themselves to kingdom come very peacefully. It's actually a very beautiful form of death. I find it abhorrent that you would stop these people from blowing their heads to the consistency of apple sauce. For shame.

Scoff if you like, but my point remains valid. Guess you couldn't come up with something better to refute it....

I think I'll scoff, thanks.

At least you're consistent.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:41 pm
God took Terri away over 15 years ago.

It was humans with political motives who insisted on keeping her shell of a body alive to serve their own political purposes.

If neochristians are so hellbent on the sanctity of life and putting their faith in God's hands, well, then, what was the point of the feeding tube in the first place if she was already gone? In the beginning there was hope, but that hope faded when it becamse blatantly obvious that Terri wasn't coming back.

It is the neochristian paradox here that seems to indicate that Christian fundamentalists are no more than political pawns of the neoconservative rightwing nutjobs currently holding on to power in Washington.

They argue for one person to be kept alive, when politicians like Dr. Frist have pulled the plug numerous times, Tom DeLay pulled the plug on his father, and the majority of Americans agree with Michael Shiavo that Terri died 15 years ago.

Oh, the utter hypocrisy of it all...
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:42 pm
i actually knew someone (husband of co-worker - he was in his early 70's at that time) who suffered a severe stroke and after several months in an extended care facility stopped eating and drinking. while he could not speak, his wife told me that when she was trying to feed him, he would try to make her understand that he did not want to be fed, and he would turn away from her. btw this took place here in the early 80's in a care facility operated by a catholic order and staffed mainly by nuns at St. Mary's of the Lake Hospital. hbg
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:49 pm
Drew, are we still in Kansas?
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:51 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Drew, are we still in Kansas?


No ... you're in outer space.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:52 pm
Quote:
Not only that, Foxy, but many sane people every day of the year put a dynamite stick in their mouths and blow themselves to kingdom come very peacefully. It's actually a very beautiful form of death. I find it abhorrent that you would stop these people from blowing their heads to the consistency of apple sauce. For shame.


Really? I haven't heard of anyone doing this. Can you provide a link, or are you just being facetious?

Though it would be a rather quick way to go. I assume that you have some sort of problem with people doing this?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:55 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Not only that, Foxy, but many sane people every day of the year put a dynamite stick in their mouths and blow themselves to kingdom come very peacefully. It's actually a very beautiful form of death. I find it abhorrent that you would stop these people from blowing their heads to the consistency of apple sauce. For shame.


Really? I haven't heard of anyone doing this. Can you provide a link, or are you just being facetious?

Though it would be a rather quick way to go. I assume that you have some sort of problem with people doing this?

Cycloptichorn

Not at all. This is clearly a very peaceful, beautiful, dignified form of death, especially when coupled with an electronic device that announces successful completion of the act with a recorded voice saying, "That's all, folks." It was really Foxy who found something unpalatable about it.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:55 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Drew, are we still in Kansas?

I'm in Texas. Where we have a very nice futile care law signed my Mr. Bush.

Actually, I really do like the futile care law we have.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:58 pm
Somehow I missed the last Austin Meetup. Anyone know when the next one is?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 12:59 pm
Dang, that Bush sure can be inconsistent; one for the state and the other for the feds. "Life isn't as precious in Texas."
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 01:01 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Gelisgesti wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
So you won't answer the question Geli? You can't answer it so you resort back to insult instead of civil discourse?

Air is different from hydration or nutrition so far as being a life sustaining necessity or it isn't. If you can withhold nutrition and hydration, why not air which would be so much more humane?

Insult .... insult!!!! I try to help and you call it INSULT!!!
Your questions are insults. Why don't you read what you write if you won't read others.

You truly beleive that it would less painful ..... to die of suffocation ... struggling and gasping for breath than to slip into a coma from lack of nutrition.

Why do I try????


I missed something ... what would be struggling and gasping for breath? The shell?


You're a big boy now, go to the dictionary and look up three words; pons, medulla oblongata, and autonomic. Then come back and tell us what you learned Cool
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 01:05 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Terri did not choose to refuse nutrition and water. It was chosen for her. That's the difference.

Nope nope nope ..... can't change the question after the response ..... you know better than that, or do you....
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 01:08 pm
Drewdad writes
Quote:
I'm not talking about Terri. I'm talking about your vow to work to see that no one is ever dehydrated to death again.

If you're saying now that you want to work on clarifying the law, then go for it. But that's different from what you said earlier in the thread.


If you had been reading my posts, (Smile), you would know that I draw a distinction between the 'right to die' and euthenasia or intentionally killing the patient. Now the 'right to die' issue is being discussed on Phoenix's other thread and is not pertinent to this discussion; however, I still maintain it extremely rare and unusual that any sane person would choose death by dehydration. I do know people, some in my own family recently, who have refused nutrition and hydration when they were in the final stages of dying from other causes. They did not die of dehydration.

So yes, I will work to be sure nobody is ever dehydrated to death again, meaning it will be seen as the inhumane and unconscionably cruel treatment that it is and will be illegal and it will not be imposed on people helpless to stop it.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 01:14 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Gelisgesti wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
So you won't answer the question Geli? You can't answer it so you resort back to insult instead of civil discourse?

Air is different from hydration or nutrition so far as being a life sustaining necessity or it isn't. If you can withhold nutrition and hydration, why not air which would be so much more humane?

Insult .... insult!!!! I try to help and you call it INSULT!!!
Your questions are insults. Why don't you read what you write if you won't read others.

You truly beleive that it would less painful ..... to die of suffocation ... struggling and gasping for breath than to slip into a coma from lack of nutrition.

Why do I try????


I missed something ... what would be struggling and gasping for breath? The shell?


You're a big boy now, go to the dictionary and look up three words; pons, medulla oblongata, and autonomic. Then come back and tell us what you learned Cool


Did you hurt yourself dodging the question? Cool
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 01:23 pm
Brandon wrote
Quote:
Not at all. This is clearly a very peaceful, beautiful, dignified form of death, especially when coupled with an electronic device that announces successful completion of the act with a recorded voice saying, "That's all, folks." It was really Foxy who found something unpalatable about it.


Laughing
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2005 01:24 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I do know people, some in my own family recently, who have refused nutrition and hydration when they were in the final stages of dying from other causes. They did not die of dehydration.

So yes, I will work to be sure nobody is ever dehydrated to death again, meaning it will be seen as the inhumane and unconscionably cruel treatment that it is and will be illegal and it will not be imposed on people helpless to stop it.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you want to have it both ways....
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