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Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:02 pm
wenchilina wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
He has since ended all therapy and blocked every attempt by the family to let modern medicine have a crack at her. He has denied every expense possible and now seeks the balance of money awarded for her care. She has never even had an MRI for crying out loud.


What a load. Do you have any idea the extent he went to with neurosurgeons to revive some function of mind in her?!!? Clearly, you don't. Nor do you understand her condition. She is not " curable ". Why aren't you familiarizing yourself with the details of her condition and the years of treatment she's received before regurgitating this nonsense?!

What's heinous are the ignorant people painting him as some monster. how crass.
No limit to the subject matter a dedicated flamebater will flame bait on, eh? Rolling Eyes I've painted nothing but the possibility. Is it not a fact that the woman has NEVER had an MRI? Wouldn't prudence demand that advances in medicine be applied before killing and cremating her?
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:09 pm
this just in CNN reports the House has adjurned per rules of process until 12:01 tomorrow morning, the proposed legislation will require a 2/3 majority to support the bill before sending it to the Senate.
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wenchilina
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:11 pm
flaming? hardly.

highlighting your ignorance on the case. yes.
it seems prudent when people/you throw false information around as the basis of their/your cries.

the speech and swallowing therapy, nah - meant nothing
the microchip implanated in her brain - nah, no MRI.
etc.
etc.

let's just instead continue on with the falsehoods that she's " curable " and it's all about the money that he's spent on her treatments/care ( he's really just driving around in a ferrari with playboy bunnies in tow at this point )
Rolling Eyes
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OCCOM BILL
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:25 pm
Rolling Eyes I said potentially curable; as in possibly. Do you know definitively that no advance in medicine since the last attempt could help her? Of course not. You've demonstrated nothing I said false, and my ignorance or lack thereof is not the issue here anyway. Now stop with the childish flaming, please.
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wenchilina
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:36 pm
if pointing out the falsehoods you're perpetuating is ' flaming ' than so be it.
She is not ' curable '. plain and simple. you may want to review such terms / her condition / the treatments she's received before continued arguing as the credibility of your argument as it stands now is hanging by a thread at this point.
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:47 pm
wenchilina wrote:
if pointing out the falsehoods you're perpetuating is ' flaming ' than so be it.
She is not ' curable '. plain and simple. you may want to review such terms / her condition / the treatments she's received before continued arguing as the credibility of your argument as it stands now is hanging by a thread at this point.

Curable is not an important factor. If she is aware that she exists, and doesn't want to be snuffed out, then killing her would be murder. I believe there is not a concensus of opinion on whether she is self-aware. I have by now seen many movies and still pictures in which she appears to be responding in a way much more than reflex to those around her. Her opponents pretend not to have seen these.

As for her wish to be slowly starved, we have only her "husband's" unsubstantiated word, which really doesn't meet a reasonable burden of proof.
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wenchilina
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:06 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Curable is not an important factor. If she is aware that she exists, and doesn't want to be snuffed out, then killing her would be murder. I believe there is not a concensus of opinion on whether she is self-aware. I have by now seen many movies and still pictures in which she appears to be responding in a way much more than reflex to those around her. Her opponents pretend not to have seen these.


*bangs head on desk*

how many times do I or the likes of Sozobe who provides links need to repeat the same information before you grasp it? your net degree in e-doctory determining your ability to assess her condition must've cost you a pretty penny.
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rodeman
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:14 pm
Occom Bill, Brandon 9000, Conspiracy Theorists of the World:

Get a grip. The lady is a turnip. She has been in a PERMANENT VEGETATIVE STATE for 15 years. 19 judges have been presented the case of Terri Schiavo. Not every judge has agreed with her husbands repeated attempts to terminate her life support, but every judge did ascertain his right to his decision. Her parents have thwarted that decision with a series of appeals to judges, governors, and now our Congress. I believe this will eventually go to the Supreme Court. We're dealing with irreparable, irreversible brain damage. Can we show some compassion, and let this poor lady go...? The politicians in this case (DeLay in particular) are disgusting beyond belief..
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OCCOM BILL
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:20 pm
Well said Brandon. The flamer either doesn't understand words like potential, important or factor or she doesn't want to. Rolling Eyes Who cares which?

It is a flaw in Florida Law that the man can be Common-Law Married to someone else without dissolving this marriage in the first place. Absent this flaw, the issue would be closed as her true "next of kin" obviously doesn't want her killed... and I doubt anyone here would hold them in contempt for their decision. Why people here are so emotional about defending the decision to kill her by the man who should by all rights no longer have such authority is beyond me. I do hope they can find a legal way to correct the legal oversight that allowed for this tragic predicament in the first place.
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Foxfyre
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:51 pm
It was this picture of Terri responding to her mother that convinced me she deserves a chance to see if if she will benefit from being with people who do love her and care about her and will provide whatever treatment may be available for her.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/Schiavo_mom.jpg
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wenchilina
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:52 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
The flamer either doesn't understand words like potential, important or factor or she doesn't want to. Rolling Eyes Who cares which?


No bill you don't seem to understand these wonderous concepts like the function of receptors without a processor and your beloved use of the word ' curable ' . She is by defintion of humanity, dead and has been for a long time.

who knew you and brandon moonlight as Dr. Nick's apprentices.
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Foxfyre
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 02:06 pm
The whole concept of food and water being considered 'medical treatment' is offensive to me and some activisit judge I believe really screwed up when they set that as a precedent. Next thing you know, we'll need a prescription from our doctor before we can go to the grocery store.

There was a movie, based on a true story, some years ago--Richard Dreyfuss had the starring role--entitled "Who's life is it anyway?' The story line was of a gifted sculptor who was rendered quadriplegic in an automobile accident and did not wish to go on living. Then followed a court fight in which he finally won his suit to be able to voluntarily refuse food and thus starve to death. He would still have hydration as lack of that causes extreme discomfort, but he was allowed to refuse food. But here you have the case of a person with all his marbles being able to voluntarily choose his fate, and in my opinion, the judges ruling was just in this case. He of course had the option to change his mind at any time prior to loss of conciousness as well.

In my opinion this is hugely different than making the decision for somebody else. And now, after thinking about it within the 'political football' framework, I think I'm coming down on the side that it is a legitimate issue for Congress to ponder.
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Foxfyre
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 02:46 pm
Incidentally, our local afternoon drive talk show featured the Terri Schiavo story and issue during this past week. During the three-hour program, several people called in to report having survived illnesses and injuries during which the doctor had informed the families the person would be in a persistent vegetative state or would never awaken from several months of coma, etc. These people are now recovering or are fully recovered. Were all lying? It's hard to believe they all were.

One of the favorites on the current American Idol is a young man with a condition so severe that the doctors advised his parents that he would never be able to speak. Now he speaks quite well and sings like a pro.

IMO, our notions about what is and is not possible should not get in the way of coming down on the side of life. As far as it has come, medical science is still imperfect, inexact, and immature. But when you have qualified doctors who dispute Terri Schiavo's official diagnosis, I think if we value life, we have to at least give her a chance to have hers.
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 03:43 pm
rodeman wrote:
Occom Bill, Brandon 9000, Conspiracy Theorists of the World:

Get a grip... let this poor lady go...?

You are inaccurate. No one is contemplating "letting her go," she is being killed by being denied food or water.
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 03:47 pm
Brandon, you didn't answer the questions left for you on this issue here ...

http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1232716#1232716
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 04:03 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Brandon, you didn't answer the questions left for you on this issue here ...

http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1232716#1232716

Because I had been online for five hours, it was evening, and I wanted to go out, as implausible as that may seem to you. I'll tell you what, the very first time wenchilina cites a source for any of her previous medical claims about TS's condition, I will follow your link and answer your questions. It somehow doesn't seem fair that you rule her exempt from providing sources for anything she herself says or claims, but I am compelled to answer every question I am asked immediately or else, in your judgement, lose the argument.
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husker
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 04:57 pm
read this link about how health care workers testified about how Terri expresses herself.

link
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ehBeth
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 05:04 pm
It doesn't much matter how we 'feel' about this. We're all clearly going to differ. What matters, really, is the law. Asherman has addressed that issue here

http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1233750#1233750
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 05:12 pm
Pure emotion, bill.
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Foxfyre
 
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Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 05:19 pm
On another thread Asherman (one of my very favorite A2Kers) posted
Quote:
Far from exercising restraint in Federal intrusions into the affairs of States and individuals, this Administration has moved to interfere with that case in Florida where a State Court upheld the right of a husband to make a choice about whether his brain-dead wife might be taken off of physical supports. That's a more intrusive and to me offensive use of Federal power than using US military forces in Iraq. After all, the Constitution makes the President Commander-in-Chief so that he can exercise the military option without undue constraint by Congress or public sentiment. Where is the justification and authority for the Federal government to interfere in State business, or make decisions of a personal nature for a private citizen?


The thing that even Asherman is overlooking here is that this same husband has apparently refused to allow her to be treated with any of the $1.7 million awarded to her; rather he seems to be using it for lawyers to persuade judges to allow him to kill her. He is further overlooking the fact that the woman's parents and siblings do not want her killed, want to take over all resonsibility for her care, and it is they who have appealed to the Federal government for relief. It isn't like the Feds just barged in and started meddling.

I still think what if it was my daughter and my son-in-law would not allow me to see her, talk to her, read to her, play music to her and he was actively seeking a court order for her death? Would I not do the same. Is there any evidence the parents or siblings have been irrational? Unreasonable?

Again of note, the Federal government is not interfering in any way other than to broaden the ability of legal system to deal with the problem. Even as my mouth gets uncomfortably dry after a few hours withought anything to drink, I wonder if Terri is suffering. I don't think I could bear that if she was my loved one. I would be in Washington beating on doors. I can't find a good case for Congress acting improperly or imprudently.
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