China and Taiwan

Can you name a language called "Taiwanese"?
JB

I just finished reading a speech from Madame Fu Ying, Chinese ambassador to Australia - and one of the press had asked her about the issue of China and Taiwan - why can't they be indpendent. She answered that Taiwan is a very important part of Chinese history and in fact a war had been fought over Taiwan back in 1661.

Can anyone elaborate on this war?

pragmatic wrote:

Now I have to bring up the very sensitive issue of the relations (or lack of it) btwn China and Taiwan...who thinks what and why? I want to get a general perspective from everyone on A2K.

There's a fairly simple and elegant solution to the entire problem of Taiwan.

Basically, the chicoms must be made to answer this question: "Are you claiming to own an island, or are you claiming to own 30 million people who moved to that island to avoid living under your fubar government, along with their technological and industrial infrastructure?"

I don't see how we can defend Taiwan in perpetuity given it's location, nonetheless it's not obvious we should have to. None of the nationalist Chinese have any more than about 60 years history of living on that island, and we own lots of islands. The basic idea would be to take everything we have which moves over water, pick a particularly dark night, and move the Nationalist Chinese along with as much of their machinery and infrastructure as can be moved all back 6000 miles away from the coast of China either to one of our own island possessions or to that northwest corner of Australia which is mainly populated by poisonous snakes and estuarian crockadiles and then tell the fricking chicoms if they want an island (Taiwan), hey! feel free, rejoice dear hearts, it's all yours.

The Taiwanese would be back in business as if nothing had happened in less than six months and the chicoms would be snaffed.

Peter Schultz, CEO of Porsche, once noted that the only asset a company like Porsche really had which was meaningful was its people. He noted that you could bomb the entire plant to ashes and dust and if the people survived, they'd be building cars again in less than two years. Take away the people on the other hand, and the plant would revert to forest in the same time. The Taiwanese people of course aren't into heavy manufacturing far as I know, and the tools for making microchips and circuit boards would have to be easier to move and transport on ships than machine tools and the wherewithal for building Porsches.

An interesting couple of analogies there. I especially like the one about Australia.

Quote:

There is also the issue that Taiwan is already a nation - or as MS said, it can be argued they already are a nation. There has to be some basis for this claim and it seems to me that in today's contemporary community - it would be do other governments recognise you as a official country?

Well the official recognition IS a definition of a government, and yes Taiwan does not have this. Although it goes against common sense and frequently surprizes people such a definition exists. I would therefore suggest to Pragmatic that other definitions of government also be taken into consideration. For example a quick check on a couple of on line dictionaries gives the following definition.

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The act or process of governing, especially the control and administration of public policy in a political unit.
The office, function, or authority of a governing individual or body.
Exercise of authority in a political unit; rule.
The agency or apparatus through which a governing individual or body functions and exercises authority.
A governing body or organization, as:
The ruling political party or coalition of political parties in a parliamentary system.
The cabinet in a parliamentary system.
The persons who make up a governing body.
A system or policy by which a political unit is governed.
Administration or management of an organization, business, or institution.

government definition

Taiwan satisfies ALL of the above. Tasmania on the other hand does not. Tasmania does not collect its own taxes, make its own laws, have its own military and so on. The only common thread to Taiwan is that they are both islands. I hope you can give a more pursasive argument than this lame duck.

I have been asking , and so far have yet to hear. What argument can be presented to justify China's stance that they should have a mandate to invade Taiwan.

Thank you for a great post DestinyX. I agree, there can be may interpretations and it may come down to semantics.

I am open and accept and respect that for this topic there are different and opposing views. What I put forward was that Taiwan, at the least can bring resonable doubt to what China is trying to assert , which is they should have a mandate to invade Taiwan.


I have agruing from a Taiwanese veiwpoint..
The communist government have never ruled Taiwan for a second.
There have been many occupying nations, Dutch, Japanese as well as China (Although not communist)
Taiwan has been self governing for over 50 years
The people of Taiwan do not want a Chinese government

I have been asking , and so far have yet to hear. What argument can be presented to justify China's stance that they should have a mandate to invade Taiwan.

With the establishment of diplomatic relations with China on January 1, 1979, the US Government recognized the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China and acknowledged the Chinese position that there is only one China and that Taiwan is part of China."

i guess those what yet support PRC's points as "internal affairs"

note 3 mentions that "Note 3: With the establishment of diplomatic relations with China on January 1, 1979, the US Government recognized the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China and acknowledged the Chinese position that there is only one China and that Taiwan is part of China."

I still insist that since the issue was raised by the Chinese themselves, it should be solved by the Chinese people of both sides

"All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing."

Hence, my point is quite clear, whether the PRC or ROC are just problems of what government is representing the country call China

Your comment about me was a bit beastly.. a bit like your name which is an anagram of CAT RAM PIG, could this be where you get your humour from?

and letting the chicoms have an empty island.

1979, the US Government recognized the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China and acknowledged the Chinese position that there is only one China and that Taiwan is part of China."

the United States would do "whatever it took to help Taiwan defend herself."