who exists?

arw:-

What do you want to make up your mind what to think for?You'll be wanting to vote next.

i did read the other pages, so i'll do my best not to be redundant. you certainly got a reaction to your theory--and provided amusement to many readers, i think, whether they exist outside your consciousness or not--although i guess you found none of the replies compelling. i personally was intrigued by the discussion of solipsism, and what you wrote about imagination inside your imagination.

unfortunately, i don't have a better reply at the moment, but i hope you read my preamble. but if it's ok to express a half-formed line of reasoning or two, descartes, who systematically investigated your question, didn't have benefit of the knowledge we have about how our brains work. the idea of a consciousness separate from the brain is completely discredited in cognitive science as imagining a little man/woman, or homunculus inside the brain, watching pictures on a screen, operating the controls for the body, etc. in cognitive science, it's the other way around, the brain does a zillion things at once, and coincidentally, it generates a consciousness, provided it doesn't suffer major trauma like a hard knock to the head or a general anesthetic. but one of the goals of cognitive science is to simulate human intelligence, software that basically thinks & communicates like a human being. just suppose this is achieved: you would then have a consciousness that's transparent, not hidden; would you then acknowledge the existence of a consciousness besides your own?

i have another question for you: if you're imagining everything, isn't it peculiar you have so little control over what you imagine? we all control our own imaginations (in the normal sense), so it's a different sort of imagination that produces the external world, as well as your own body. maybe you can bend spoons or something, but you can't move mountains can you? furthermore, so much of what you know about the supposed figments of your imagination come from the external world. in fact, you're virtually the slave of your imagination--unless you disconnect from the world, become a hermit, and contemplate your navel maybe. it's not very godlike at all. but if it's your consciousness that produces the external world, it would seem that that is its main function, outside of the control of whatever part of it composes messages to a2k. does it bother you to have so little autonomy over your own creation?

thanks yitwail.
i see what you are saying, so think about this, if you touched a hot iron, an automatic reaction would be to pul your hand away, this is the same as instict, or the subconcious, we dont think about it or controll it, we just do it. Surely the same concept applies to imagination? obviously when i said god in my previous posts, it just means god to ourselves, not god as in the conventional form of the word.

In conclusion, i do think it quite likely that other people do exist. However in this i also presume that:
we cannot prove others exist
we all exist to ourselves only (we cannot share minds)
we all create the world we live in, as it is only in our perceptions and experiences which we learn anything about the world.
this basically means we are all a type of god to ourselves, and for those who believe in god, you are just creating an illusion for yourself.

I'm late to this thread I just noticed it for some reason and I'm sorry to digress but I just have to know

Was it your idea to put Axl in those idiotic dreads on the MTV show a couple years back?

Because if so you don't deserve to exist. He looked like a bloated wigger wanna be idiot.

And please let him know no one cares about Chinese Democracy anymore. Thanks.

lols!!
yes i did nag him to take the braids out for a while, and it is fustrating about chineese democracy, but he assures me it will be out soon, its just hes a perfectionist.
if he doesnt relase it, how about I kill him while he's sleeping, and issue it so he doesnt know?

I like your style.

aha, i think you're talking about Immanuel Kant's ding an sich, which is another can of worms. Genghis Khan but Immanuel Kant, as they say. :wink:

he he. yeah i really need to read some philosophers!!! then maybe i'll know what im talking about more. At least for now though, i can try and make up my mind about things without accidentally stealing other peoples ideas. my mind is still fresh!!

according to Plato, all knowledge is remembrance, and according to Ecclesiastes, there's nothing new under the sun, so you could scarcely be stealing. good place to get acquainted with philosophy, btw, is the book Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder. sort of a silly plot, but easy to read & a good general intro to western philosophy.

Exactly....

I think everyone exists because I can see them, and I dont think my eyes are dreaming.

Yes but is vision proof? I can see the television but does that mean that there are little men running around inside it? I have said before we can never Prove that anyone else exists, yes we can see them, but we cannot see inside them, (I dont mean x-ray) i mean we cannot feel other peoples emotions, thoughts etc, through anything that is not ourself.

however, josh dearest, although you obviously didnt think properly about what you put at all, you demonstrated instict. Most peoples instict is to say that other people do exist, it is only when you develop a very concious brain you can question it. So my next querie is, Do we trust instict?

It must be axl roses wife.

well I exist, if you want proof, just ask me.

well maybe you are dreaming, but your eyes are fine

perhaps she is checking out what her imaginary friends will have to say today

ARW I think we can blame exogamy.

But!

W'ell all go down together!

Who cares if we exist or not?.......I sure am having fun.

Lola,

I think your from down south
Cos when you open your mouth
You alway's seem to put your foot there !

I wish I was home with 'The Armadillo'