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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
parados
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2012 03:32 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Surely you only strain our eyes with what you think clever.

Surely not. I am realistic enough to know that the likelihood of any human, which includes me, having an original thought is pretty slim. Perhaps I might get lucky and steal something from my betters but based on the human condition, that is pretty unlikely as well. I guess I don't delude myself with delusions of grandeur unlike some.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2012 03:38 pm
@georgeob1,
That's nice george. I stand by my usage which appears to have gone over your head but flavorful cleverness often avoids the senses of the mundane.

0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 10:11 am
@georgeob1,
I think you live a time warp. For the last decade, we have not been spending our way into debt as much as we are starving our way into debt. Taxes are low, spending is low, we are still in debt. Meanwhile, corporations and CEO's never had it so good. They have been making record profits, striping workers of their pensions and other benefits and laying people off and not hiring. They have been taking every legal means they can to avoid paying any taxes and then wonder why the government is broke and having to shed even more jobs and less help for the poor.

Austerity has never worked It's not just about the current economic environment. History shows that slashing budgets always leads to recession
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 10:30 am
@revelette,
On top of that, conservatives want to give corporations a bigger tax cut.

Many of those corporations are cash rich, but that hasn't been shared with the middle class workers. Their pay and benefits have been decreasing for some 10-years plus.

What they don't seem to understand is that sharing the wealth with the middle class will make them even richer, because the middle class are consumers - and consumption makes up 70% of our economy. All benefit - even the rich and government tax revenues.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 01:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You and Rev are a couple of socialists. Thought I would throw that out there before the brain dead conservatives did.
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 01:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Its really not just conservatives, take a look at this opinion article, make a lot of sense.

Quote:



This Republican Economy

What should be done about the economy? Republicans claim to have the answer: slash spending and cut taxes. What they hope voters won’t notice is that that’s precisely the policy we’ve been following the past couple of years. Never mind the Democrat in the White House; for all practical purposes, this is already the economic policy of Republican dreams.

So the Republican electoral strategy is, in effect, a gigantic con game: it depends on convincing voters that the bad economy is the result of big-spending policies that President Obama hasn’t followed (in large part because the G.O.P. wouldn’t let him), and that our woes can be cured by pursuing more of the same policies that have already failed.

For some reason, however, neither the press nor Mr. Obama’s political team has done a very good job of exposing the con.


What do I mean by saying that this is already a Republican economy? Look first at total government spending — federal, state and local. Adjusted for population growth and inflation, such spending has recently been falling at a rate not seen since the demobilization that followed the Korean War.

How is that possible? Isn’t Mr. Obama a big spender? Actually, no; there was a brief burst of spending in late 2009 and early 2010 as the stimulus kicked in, but that boost is long behind us. Since then it has been all downhill. Cash-strapped state and local governments have laid off teachers, firefighters and police officers; meanwhile, unemployment benefits have been trailing off even though unemployment remains extremely high.

Over all, the picture for America in 2012 bears a stunning resemblance to the great mistake of 1937, when F.D.R. prematurely slashed spending, sending the U.S. economy — which had actually been recovering fairly fast until that point — into the second leg of the Great Depression. In F.D.R.’s case, however, this was an unforced error, since he had a solidly Democratic Congress. In President Obama’s case, much though not all of the responsibility for the policy wrong turn lies with a completely obstructionist Republican majority in the House.

That same obstructionist House majority effectively blackmailed the president into continuing all the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, so that federal taxes as a share of G.D.P. are near historic lows — much lower, in particular, than at any point during Ronald Reagan’s presidency.

As I said, for all practical purposes this is already a Republican economy.

As an aside, I think it’s worth pointing out that although the economy’s performance has been disappointing, to say the least, none of the disasters Republicans predicted have come to pass. Remember all those assertions that budget deficits would lead to soaring interest rates? Well, U.S. borrowing costs have just hit a record low. And remember those dire warnings about inflation and the “debasement” of the dollar? Well, inflation remains low, and the dollar has been stronger than it was in the Bush years.

Put it this way: Republicans have been warning that we were about to turn into Greece because President Obama was doing too much to boost the economy; Keynesian economists like myself warned that we were, on the contrary, at risk of turning into Japan because he was doing too little. And Japanification it is, except with a level of misery the Japanese never had to endure.

So why don’t voters know any of this?

Part of the answer is that far too much economic reporting is still of the he-said, she-said variety, with dueling quotes from hired guns on either side. But it’s also true that the Obama team has consistently failed to highlight Republican obstruction, perhaps out of a fear of seeming weak. Instead, the president’s advisers keep turning to happy talk, seizing on a few months’ good economic news as proof that their policies are working — and then ending up looking foolish when the numbers turn down again. Remarkably, they’ve made this mistake three times in a row: in 2010, 2011 and now once again.

At this point, however, Mr. Obama and his political team don’t seem to have much choice. They can point with pride to some big economic achievements, above all the successful rescue of the auto industry, which is responsible for a large part of whatever job growth we are managing to get. But they’re not going to be able to sell a narrative of overall economic success. Their best bet, surely, is to do a Harry Truman, to run against the “do-nothing” Republican Congress that has, in reality, blocked proposals — for tax cuts as well as more spending — that would have made 2012 a much better year than it’s turning out to be.

For that, in the end, is the best argument against Republicans’ claims that they can fix the economy. The fact is that we have already seen the Republican economic future — and it doesn’t work


source


revelette
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 01:31 pm
@RABEL222,
I guess that is the same as saying someone has cooties in today's US climate. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 01:39 pm
@revelette,
I've even written to Obama that he needs to communicate more with the American people about our economy; he also needs to 'SPEND' to get our economy back on track. Austerity programs like in Europe doesn't work. Government needs to help kickstart the economy where more consumers have money to spend. The best place to start is our infrastructure; construction and maintenance is a huge project that needs to be started yesterday.

Obama might have some college professors to advise him, but it only takes economics 101 to understand how economies work. You don't starve the country to improve the economy; you spend money so more will circulate within it.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 03:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
What they don't seem to understand is that sharing the wealth with the middle class will make them even richer,


If it will make them richer they'll not only welcome you showing them how it is done but will probably put you in charge of getting seeing the project through. You'll be in clover.

And the middle class will get a share of it too. If that's not a coalition to sweep into the White House with a thumping majority in both Houses I don't know what is.

Will there be anything left for the workers? What criteria do you use for definition of not middle class? We know what not rich is.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 03:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You don't starve the country to improve the economy


You don't feed somebody running to fat either.

RABEL222
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 10:47 am
@spendius,
I'll bet there are a hell of a lot more economically skinny people than fat people in the U.S. Today. About 80% to 20% I would judge.
revelette
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 11:43 am
@spendius,
Quote:
You don't feed somebody running to fat either.



If they are running to fat, then chances are they are not starving.

Moreover, no one can go without food regardless of how fat they are, they just need to eat less, make better choices and exercise. Think of exercise as increased revenue and think of making better choices in food as in getting more bang for your buck in government and lastly think of smaller portions as less spending. We have only been doing the latter for years with dismal results. We need to to all three which is something Obama has been calling for, for over two years.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 01:21 pm
@revelette,
But the food industry is highly geared. That means a small reduction in turnover wipes out profitability.
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 04:13 pm
@RABEL222,
That's the irony of fat people; they eat more junk food, and therefore result in being fat. They also don't understand good nutrition practices.

Economically skinny people become the fat people.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 05:08 pm
I am getting the impression that politicians are gradually ceasing to matter. The money technocrats are calling the shots.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 05:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
With the support for Spain's banks, the US stock market seems to be on an uptick of 1.5% or more.

That will not cure all of Euros problems, but it's a good start.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 12:34 am

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Quote:
Whatever the deep roots of this paralysis, it’s becoming increasingly clear that it will take utter catastrophe to get any real policy action that goes beyond bank bailouts. But don’t despair: at the rate things are going, especially in Europe, utter catastrophe may be just around the corner.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/opinion/krugman-another-bank-bailout.html?hp


JEEZ, why dont you tell us how you really feel??
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 08:21 am
@spendius,
little late in responding..

But, your right which is why all the fattening high priced foods are right at eye level and the good for you food is way up high or down really low. If we really stretch it, I guess we could keep going with the metaphor, but it would be silly. I was kinda stretching it in the last post.

My only point was that over the last decade, it seems we have been gutting everything in government and keeping taxes low with not too good result so I don't see why more of the same which has continued even with Obama, would result any differently. The only big spending has basically been the stimulus packages and the affordable health care bill and they have been way less than the tax cuts over the years. I have personally seen benefits from the health care bill, I don't think any republican is really going to repeal it even if the mandate ends up being unconstitutional in Roberts SC.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 01:58 pm
@revelette,
The market today started up close to 100, but it's now on the negative over 100 points. It seems the smart money is saying that the Euro countries need to let Spain go bankrupt, because lending them more money only increases their debt and inability to pay it back. It's now a loss of 143 points - and dropping with 3 more minutes to go.

Interesting day!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 02:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The question now becomes "how will this affect our economy?" and "where do we go from here?"
0 Replies
 
 

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