Where is the US economy headed?

@cicerone imposter,

But that was when the taxes were spent mainly in the interests of the rich. Or more so than now.

And it might be an idea to explain what you mean by the economy doing much better.

And everybody wants to make sure they pay much less tax as our deficit grows so you are really only speaking of power relations.

You're spouting platitudes.

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@spendius,

I know what was I was thinking, men and women who are serving over seas want to be foreclosed on while serving our nation. Drunk

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@spendius,

spendi, You don't even understand US history; those were years when most Americans benefited - not only the rich. Those were periods when higher tax rates, middle America was enjoying the fruits of their labor, and the economy was in high gear. It also happened to be when democrats were in charge of the white house.

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@cicerone imposter,

HEar! HEar! The rich also weren't as ridiculously rich as they are today. Look at the way people dressed during the 1950s. They were neat in their everyday lives and looked better in their daily lives than people today who are going out look. People took regular vacations. Sure, they were automobile vacations and families stayed in tourist cabins but so many families can't afford the equivalent today.

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Gold and oil down sharply today (5% each).

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@realjohnboy,

Gold and silver speculation brought it up to levels that were not sustainable, because all gold is good for is jewelry. There's no inherent value in gold; it doesn't produce anything. That's the reason why I never bought gold for "investments." The only time I recommended to buy gold was in 2008, and recommended selling gold when the value gave them a profit. People usually wait too long, and the increased value of gold doesn't return the profit they're looking for. They usually don't know what they're looking for.

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@cicerone imposter,

Gold has some sort of bottom line. The cost of extraction. If the price of gold falls to a level at which it is unprofitable to extract it the mines close down. Once that happens the gold stock becomes fixed.

It's the same the other way round. If the price rose to certain levels it could, theoretically, be profitable to extract it from seawater. Some of the old slag heaps of waste ore in South Africa have been reprocessed for what was missed the first time for various reasons.

Also the large gold producing nations restrict supply to keep the price where they want it.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

HEar! HEar! The rich also weren't as ridiculously rich as they are today. Look at the way people dressed during the 1950s. They were neat in their everyday lives and looked better in their daily lives than people today who are going out look. People took regular vacations. Sure, they were automobile vacations and families stayed in tourist cabins but so many families can't afford the equivalent today.

Not even Bill Gates can match, on a relative basis, the wealth of the late 19th and early 20th centuries: Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Carngie, Morgan et al, not to mention monarchs and despots that, throughout history, controlled the entire economies of whole nations.

Who is responsible for currently lax societal rules?

The Rich? Give me a break.

People are not wearing jeans to church and pants that hang of their asses because they are poor.

For better of for worse, the 60's was a time when long standing traditions were assaulted and levelled.

It had nothing to do with economics, except for the fact that America was coming off a boom time and the Baby Boomer brats could worry about being cool more than being fed or having a job.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Who cares about

Quote:

Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Carngie, Morgan et al

, those of history that only cared for themselves? At least Bill Gates and Warren Buffett gave most of their wealth to help the people of the world - but especially children. Also, Gates and Buffett even say that their taxes are too low - while the conservatives continues to advocate to cut their taxes even more.

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@cicerone imposter,

Merely pointing out that POM's assertion about today's Rich is false.

I guess you never heard about all the philanthropic works of the Rockefellers, Fords, Carnegies, Morgans and Mellons.

There's a new thread in this forum asking what members would do if they won the lottery. last time I checked it out not one person replied "I would seek to pay more taxes."

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Doesn't matter today; what matters are the behavior of people with money today. It's a different world as more middle class families lose their jobs and homes. Doesn't matter what

Quote:

the Rockefellers, Fords, Carnegies, Morgans and Mellons

did during the last century. That's the reason why I mentioned Bill Gates and Warren Buffett; they are wealthy exemplary citizens of this country that understands human suffering, and they gave away most of their wealth to help humanity. Which

Quote:

Rockefellers, Fords, Carnegies, Morgans and Mellons

did the same in their time?

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This isn't technically about the US economy, but I wanted to loop this in here and remind folks that Austerity does not work in the slightest.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/12/no-the-irish-economy-is-not-recovering.html

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

WWII is a good example of why austerity is not always a good solution to any economy. Unless people can earn income that is spent on goods and services, almost all sources of revenue is lost - even taxes. If a country keeps cutting labor, consumers can't buy the goods and services commercial enterprises produce. Consumerism makes up over 70% of our economy; keep cutting labor, and you'll end up with nothing to buy. Econ 101.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

WWII is a good example of why austerity is not always a good solution to any economy. Unless people can earn income that is spent on goods and services, almost all sources of revenue is lost - even taxes. If a country keeps cutting labor, consumers can't buy the goods and services commercial enterprises produce. Consumerism makes up over 70% of our economy; keep cutting labor, and you'll end up with nothing to buy. Econ 101.

An yet we have been aggressively doing exactly that for a long time now, cutting wages so that the owners of corporations and their henchmen can collect more loot. CEO pay was up 27% last year, they are doing fine.

Quote:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Who says American salaries are stagnating.
After two years of lower pay packages, chief executives at the nation's major companies enjoyed a 36.5% jump in pay last year, according to a leading survey of CEO compensation.
The average pay hike is for the top executive at each of the Standard & Poor 500 companies, according to GMI, the research group formerly known as the Corporate Library. A broader survey of CEO pay at 3,000 companies posted an average 27% increase.
Paul Hodgson, senior research associate at GMI, said the sharp rise in pay was out of line with the relatively modest improvement that companies typically achieved in profits or share price during 2010

http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/15/news/companies/ceo_pay/index.htm

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@hawkeye10,

Trickle down economy doesn't work; it never has, it never will. The conservatives keep advocating for more tax cuts for the rich, because they say it'll produce jobs. GW Bush's tax cuts in 2002-2003 that promised jobs actually was the worst job creation in US history since the Great Depression.

There's no cure for stupid.

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@cicerone imposter,

You're an obvious case in point ci. You go on about "jobs" and you won't say what a "job" is from an economic point of view despite having been challenged to do so on more than one occasion. That's stupid.

You don't understand that how "jobs" are created is a political question. Modern domestic politics is about the balance between the State and the market or business.

What sort of "jobs" do you want creating and who is to pay for them?

Mr Bush was taking advice from vast bureaucracies. He wasn't a one man band. You're saying that the whole governmental machine was stupid from your rocking chair.

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@spendius,

"Jobs" are self-explanatory to most people. Only people like you have difficulty with such simple, common, words.

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@cicerone imposter,

I certainly do have difficulty with a word like that which however common it is is far from simple. Anybody who thinks that such a word is simple from an economic point of view is a simpleton.

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@spendius,

Do you have a dictionary? That's where you'll find definition for words.

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@cicerone imposter,

Dictionary definitions are for simpletons.

What's a job ci? From an economic point of view. Surely you can define a concept you continually bang on about?

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Where is the US economy headed?

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