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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 07:17 pm
generally speaking of course, republicans bought into "sub-prime" for the potential high yield not reading the "high risk" micro face type. Simple greed.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 07:29 pm
Miller wrote:
maporsche wrote:

Healthcare though, to me, is a right of all people, like police/fire protection, clean drinking water, sewer systems, etc.


You of course, know that police/fire, water, sewer are paid for by property taxes, don't you? The property owner pays through his property taxes and the renter indrectly through his rent to the property owner.

I pay for my health insurance, and because I pay for this benefit, it is my right to be covered by the insurance policy. Those who don't buy insurance don't have this right.


Right, like I said "Healthcare though, TO ME, is a right of all people.

We obviously disagree. Thankfully the wind is shifting in my direction.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 07:32 pm
All individuals have the RIGHT to buy health insurance.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 08:00 pm
Miller wrote:
All individuals have the RIGHT to buy health insurance.


But not the ability.

Healthcare, like drinking water, police protection, etc (gee, this sounds familiar), is a right of all people....regardless of their ability to afford it.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 08:24 pm
I'm with you maporsch, all Americans deserve to have health insurance.

Some people will never understand that a healthy society is necessary to maintain a healthy economy.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 08:34 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'm with you maporsch, all Americans deserve to have health insurance.

Some people will never understand that a healthy society is necessary to maintain a healthy economy.


That's why we have, by law, Universal Health Coverage in Massachusetts, while neither Illinois nor California has a comparable plan beneficial to the general public.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 08:43 pm
We're talking about a "national" universal health insurance plan. Booley for Mass.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:01 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
We're talking about a "national" universal health insurance plan.


Then vote for Mitt Romney for President, so that the National Plan will be identical to the plan we have in the CommonWealth of Massachusetts, where all
participants PAY their own fair share.

There are no freebies in life...
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:12 pm
Miller wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
We're talking about a "national" universal health insurance plan.


Then vote for Mitt Romney for President, so that the National Plan will be identical to the plan we have in the CommonWealth of Massachusetts, where all
participants PAY their own fair share.

There are no freebies in life...



Look, Miller favours socialized medicine! Wow.....
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:13 pm
Another WOW!
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:28 pm
old europe wrote:
Miller wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
We're talking about a "national" universal health insurance plan.


Then vote for Mitt Romney for President, so that the National Plan will be identical to the plan we have in the CommonWealth of Massachusetts, where all
participants PAY their own fair share.

There are no freebies in life...



Look, Miller favours socialized medicine! Wow.....


Now, you have not been paying attention in class.
Mitt's plan is not an example of socialized medicine, as all paricipants must pay for their own insurance. As stated above, nothing is free and that includes health insurance.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:30 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Another WOW!


As a result of not paying attention in class, CI, you've now failed the course. Nothing is free and Mitt's plan requires all (even you ) to buy and pay for health insurance.

I would have given you a D-, but it seems from an ethical perspective, that you've earned an F in this course.

You need to repeat the course, next semester. Razz Razz Razz
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:36 pm
Thanks for the D-. At least it's not an "F." LOL I'll be missing all future classes.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:36 pm
Miller wrote:
old europe wrote:
Miller wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
We're talking about a "national" universal health insurance plan.


Then vote for Mitt Romney for President, so that the National Plan will be identical to the plan we have in the CommonWealth of Massachusetts, where all
participants PAY their own fair share.

There are no freebies in life...



Look, Miller favours socialized medicine! Wow.....


Now, you have not been paying attention in class.
Mitt's plan is not an example of socialized medicine, as all paricipants must pay for their own insurance. As stated above, nothing is free and that includes health insurance.



Oh, certainly. But as far as I understand the Massachusetts system, it achieved something close to Universal Health Care by drastically expanding MassHealth coverage, by increasing health coverage subsidies and requiring employers to either provide coverage or pay an assessment to the state....

I approve of all of that. I think that's how a system should work. Let's also note again that a universal health care system is not necessarily the same as a state run/single payer system.

But given the nature of the subject, virtually every system will incorporate some kind of pressure on citizens to buy health insurance (either through taxes in case of a state run system or through statutory or mandatory insurance in case of a combined or state regulated private system).


It's amazing that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has actually chosen to incorporate a rather large number of state components into its model of a universal health care system, without getting accused of providing "socialized medicine".
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 09:38 pm
Miller wrote:
Nothing is free and Mitt's plan requires all (even you ) to buy and pay for health insurance.


I think nobody has made a case for "free health care". People have always been arguing in favour of universal health care.

No need to put up that straw man in order to make a case...
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 10:05 pm
Gee, maybe I deserve a C+. LOL
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 04:38 am
OLD EUROPE has now failed the course and shall receive an F-.

Previously, I told old euorpa that Mass Health was part of the medicaid program, and as such could be called socialized medicine. Medicare, on the other hand, is not socialized medicine.

In the Massachusetts Universal health program, those individauls living at or below the poverty line are covered by Mass Health/medicaid.

Those living above the poverty line, the majority of residents will pay health insurance premiums, which are based on their age and where they live in the State.

A 20-30 year old will pay about $250/month, while
a person 59-64 will pay $700+/month to an insurance company. These plans are not free and are not subsized by either the State or the Federal governments and as such as not SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.

No CI, you will receive F- also.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 07:14 am
<grins>

Yes, that's pretty much what I said. I know that under the Massachusetts system, most people are merely being forced to buy their own health insurance. I know that that's not subsidized. I approve of that.

(And you don't have to tell us that it's not "free", because nobody has made that claim. Try reading along, eh?)


But it certainly wouldn't be a universal health care system, if those residents of Massachusetts who previously couldn't afford health insurance would now be left out of the system. Which is why MassHealth coverage was expanded and health coverage subsidies were increased.

Now, according to this statement, "The average uninsured Massachusetts resident will be able to purchase health insurance for $175 per month this spring based on new bids recently submitted to the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority."


See, my point is this: of course you can achieve something close to universal health care simply by making health care mandatory. But you will still be left with quite a number of people who simply cannot afford purchasing health insurance. By merely forcing people to pay for their own health insurance, you will never achieve universal health care (unless you're living somewhere where unemployment etc. doesn't exist...)
Therefore, you'll always have to incorporate some elements into such a system that are not in accordance with a "free market model" - elements that you earlier derided as "socialized medicine".

Now, I really don't care how you call those parts of a universal health care system. But it's pretty clear that a universal health care system wouldn't be one without those bits, and favouring a truly universal health care system while opposing those parts of it that make it universal seems to be pretty inconsistent...
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 08:24 am
Hey, old europe, seems our teacher gets an "F" and we both get "A's".
I just love this kind of turn of events. The more we discuss, the more we learn we were right in the first place. LOL
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 08:26 am
I have lost about $40,000 in the past week in the market. I began major diversification about 2 years ago heading more on the lines of global funds. I am not worried at this point in time. I expect that in 2 r 3 months the volatility will settle. I am an optimist re the economy.
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