114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 09:12 am
@Thomas,
@Thomas
Quote:
In the investment portfolio of most households, their own home is by far the largest item. The mortgages on those homes come out of pre-tax income.


How does a mortgage on a home come out of pre-tax income? I look at my check and I have my medical insurance and 401k which are pre-tax. Then the taxes/SS/unemployment is taken out. I have post tax deductions as well. Then I get my end of the check. With the money I receive I then pay my mortgage.

I get to claim a deduction at the end of the year on the interest I paid on the mortgage but I don't know what the total of the write of is worth.

Not sure how many of you know this, but you can also deduct a portion of your medical expenses if you have spent more then $4500 total in the year.

Quote:
By contrast, people who run households rather than businesses can't deduct business expenses, because they aren't running a business. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.


Households can deduct business expenses. I work from home about 50% of the time right now. Because of this I had to have a phone line installed in my house (we only use cell phones), I had to purchase a desk and a chair some office supplies as well as a keyboard and mouse and the other nice things that make up an office. Because I had to purchase these things for my home office (keep in mind I do not own the business I'm a worker bee) I now get to deduct them on my tax's since they are for working purposes. I get to include my internet and phone line which I have to have to work and count as a business expense. All of the money I spent on the home office was from personal income, I didn't get an expense account. So it is possible for households to have business expenses and deduct those expenses on their personal income taxes.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 09:17 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

How does a mortgage on a home come out of pre-tax income?

Quote:

I get to claim a deduction at the end of the year on the interest I paid on the mortgage


That's how.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 09:22 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
So.. you are now agreeing that businesses can write off things that I can't?

You're moving your goalposts. You used to talk about corporations, now you're talking about businesses.

I never disagreed that businesses can write off things that households can't. I do disagree that corporations who run a business can write off things that individuals who run a business can't. And as you said yourself, your original comparison was between corporations and individuals. It wasn't between businesses and households.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 09:38 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
How does a mortgage on a home come out of pre-tax income?

I spoke imprecisely. Paying down the principal comes out of after-tax income. It's mortgage interest payments that aren't taxed, as you say yourself later in your post.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 10:37 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
I think I just explained. Corporations are people who run a business.

But that doesn't make them "people". It makes it a business.
No corporation ever files an individual tax return. People that own businesses DO file individual tax returns.

I understand it completely Thomas. You must be lost in translation. Businesses are not people. It's silly to claim a business is a person as evidenced by your continuing argument that businesses shouldn't be taxed as if they were people.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 10:40 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
I never disagreed that businesses can write off things that households can't. I do disagree that corporations who run a business can write off things that individuals who run a business can't.

That would be you moving the goal posts Thomas.
People are not businesses and never have been. You applied your own meaning to my statement and keep arguing against something I never said.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:33 am
@parados,
I think I've reached the point where I should stop arguing this point with you. I have said everything substantive that I'm going to say. Repeating it yet again won't stop you from feeling misunderstood. I'm not going to bother.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:36 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

parados wrote:
So.. you are now agreeing that businesses can write off things that I can't?

You're moving your goalposts. You used to talk about corporations, now you're talking about businesses.


To be fair, Parados' original comment on this was that businesses could write off things that Individuals cannot.

http://able2know.org/topic/47327-875#post-4700276

Cycloptichorn
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:47 am
@Cycloptichorn,
That wasn't Parados's original comment. His original comment in this sub-thread is this:

http://able2know.org/topic/47327-875#post-4699651

It's a response to Georgeob1, which is a response to RealJohnnyBoy's comment about Romney's "corporations are people" comment.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:56 am
@Thomas,
Fair enough, though his direct comment on the matter later on did refer to businesses, and not corporations in specific.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 11:59 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

I think I've reached the point where I should stop arguing this point with you. I have said everything substantive that I'm going to say. Repeating it yet again won't stop you from feeling misunderstood. I'm not going to bother.


Max points for a good... and patient effort.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Fair enough, though Romney was talking about corporations. Neither RealJohnnyBoy nor GeorgeOB1 nor Parados said they were talking about anything else. Therefore I responded to Parados on the reasonable assumption that we were still talking about corporations. It was Parados who changed the subject, after I responded to him, by making it about businesses. And yes, that was a change of subject: while every corporation is a business, not every business is a corporation. Many businesses consist of self-employed individuals.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:06 pm

President Obama says he has a plan to grow jobs and take a $1.5 trillion
bite out of the nation's debt, but we have to wait until September. Rolling Eyes

Obama the assclown has no plan.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:19 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
but we have to wait until September
Three years late and $500 billion short (what should have been spent on jobs that was instead given away to pet projects and the corporate class) Obama says he wants a jobs program......Ya, right!

How dumb does this guy thing we are?? We know that he is trolling for votes by pissing in our ears.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:24 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
. Many businesses consist of self-employed individuals.


Yep. Get a rust bucket pick-up, a spade, a rake, a fork and a bundle of other tools from a household auction and you can be in the landscape gardening business. Overnight.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:28 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Get a rust bucket pick-up, a spade, a rake, a fork and a bundle of other tools from a household auction and you can be in the landscape gardening business. Overnight.
Not just that, corporations are getting rid of employees left and right, then outsourcing the work to independent contractors. My daughter is doing such work for Micosoft right now in a position where the employee was recently terminated, in the Redmond Campus..... and I found out that the cable service guy who came to my house recently is not employed by Comcast but rather is a independent contractor, even though the van he drives says Comcast on it. The benefits are MUCH less (none) , and the pay is less, and the company can get rid of staff fast because the staff are not even employees.

EDIT: the department of defense does this big time as well....
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
but we have to wait until September
Three years late and $500 billion short (what should have been spent on jobs that was instead given away to pet projects and the corporate class) Obama says he wants a jobs program......Ya, right!

How dumb does this guy thing we are?? We know that he is trolling for votes by pissing in our ears.


Obama's September Surprise will be his plan to get himself re-elected and nothing more.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 12:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Microsoft has been down this road before. In fact, the class action suit by permatemps set the standard for determining whether a business can call someone a consultant or must treat as employees with benefits. Granted, $97million was a lot more money in 2001 than it is today, but I don't think your daughter should plan on long-term "consulting" with Microsoft.

Quote:
Microsoft workers settle lawsuit
By Loretta W. Prencipe, InfoWorld | Career Add a new comment

January 25, 2001, 9:46 AM — WITH THE PROPOSED $97 million settlement of the long-running class-action lawsuit, Vizcaino vs. Microsoft, managers should take the time to shore up the classification and treatment of temporary employees, says Raymond Hixson, senior associate at the law firm of Fenwick & West, in Palo Alto, Calif. "Misclassifying an employee as a contractor can violate laws covering worker compensation, taxes, unemployment insurance, and overtime. This can be an expensive mistake."

1. Understand the permatemp case

An important ruling came from the Microsoft permatemps litigation, Hixson says. "Just because your contractors sign an agreement saying that they're contractors and not employees, the agreement does not control. The legal test does."

The critical factor in the legal test, Hixson says, is, "How much control does the company exercise over how the contractor or temporary [employee] performs the work? Do they control the manner in which performance is accomplished?" Control is indicative of employee status.

2. Test employee status

Internal Revenue Service regulations help define "control" and the difference between permanent and temporary employees through a 20-point test (see sidebar "Permanent or Temporary? The 1099 Rule.") Courts have relied on it to test employee classification.

3. Treat temps differently

Even if employers are careful to define temporary employees as nonpermanent, casual, or seasonal workers in employee handbooks, employment contracts, and other corporate documents, managers' actions can affect employee classification, Hixson says.

In dealing with temporary workers, Hixson suggests that managers do not provide long-term temps with tools, define how their work is to be done (versus what is to be accomplished), nor provide them office space or training. Companies should also avoid giving temporary employees and contractors business cards or set hours of employment.

4. Review temporaries' rights

Just because an employee is temporary doesn't mean he or she is without rights. "IT managers have to be aware that temporary workers may have many of the same rights as other employees: the right to family and medical leave, the right to disability leave," Hixson says. Temporary employees are also protected by law from sexual harassment. Hixson advises IT managers to talk with HR representatives if issues arise. Source
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 01:13 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

The mortgage isn't deductible, only the portion of it that is interest is deductible and is only available to those who have enough deductions to itemize.


There is that, isn't there?

There used to be a dodge that probably still works. Since individual income taxes are cash basis, you could let yourself become a year delinquent on property taxes, and if your timing were right pay past year, current, and future year's property taxes all at once. This would get itemized deductions above standard deductions, letting you claim low mortgage interest, property taxes, charitable contributions, etc. all in one year. In all other years, you take the standard deduction.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2011 02:20 pm


PrezBO could have helped the US economy a little by
having his pair of plunder buses made here in the US.

The man child lacks common sense.
0 Replies
 
 

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