114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:07 am
Nice analysis of the situation by the National Journal, but I don't see any of the proposed messages getting through to change the situation in Washington. I believe that the triggers were intentionally chosen so that when the Rs refuse to pass anything in Nov-Dec the triggeres will be pulled. Both triggers are in line with what Grover is trying to achieve.

Quote:
The 112th Congress includes many new members elected on a promise to close the nation's unsustainable deficits. Spending does not equate to results, even when it comes to military spending. That was the message of Grover Norquist, head of Americans for Tax Reform at a recent Cato Institute Capitol Hill briefing on January 19, 2011. He argues that there is a strong conservative case to be made for cutting military spending sooner rather than later. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEoJcI3VuFw


Quote:
By National Journal
updated 8/9/2011 4:15:46 PM ET

Analysis

Nearly halfway into his speech from the State Dining Room on Monday, President Obama finally launched into what amounts to his core job-creation message these days. He ticked off a familiar trio of policy initiatives — extend unemployment benefits and the temporary payroll tax cut, spend more on infrastructure — and then blamed congressional Republicans for not enacting them.

“These are all ideas that traditionally Republicans have agreed to, have agreed to countless times in the past,” Obama said. “There’s no reason we shouldn’t act on them now. None.”

Markets were unmoved. Stocks fell before the midday speech, and they kept right on falling afterward.

No one should have been surprised. Obama needs a sharper, weightier economic message — and perhaps, many of his ideological allies suggest, a revamped policy plan as well.

Here’s why the president is struggling to get through: There appear to be two key fears driving investors and businesses right now. First, fear about the erosion of the U.S. and global recoveries, which are rooted in economic fundamentals and seemingly immune to any presidential speechifying.

There’s also widespread concern, voiced by Standard & Poor’s in its downgrade of U.S. debt on Friday, that Washington lawmakers have lost any ability to work together to solve tough economic problems. As the National Federation of Independent Business said Tuesday, in releasing another survey showing a glum outlook from small business owners, “for all the activity in Washington, D.C… they have done nothing but create a sizeable helping of anxiety, exactly what we don’t need.”

That concern would seem to be inflamed by Obama’s message of, 'I’ve got all these great economic ideas, but Congress won’t play along.'

Part of Obama’s struggle is that, despite his much-touted push to “pivot” to jobs after the end of the debt-ceiling fight, he’s still talking first and foremost about deficits. The first 650 words of his 1,500-word speech on Monday centered on the S&P downgrade, the details of the debt-limit deal, his willingness to talk about reducing social safety net spending and his commitment to stay on deficit reduction “until we get the job done.”

Obama’s other problem is the simplicity of his opponents’ message. Everyone knows Republicans’ economic mantra: Cut spending, create jobs, don't raise taxes. There’s little economic evidence to suggest such an “expansionary austerity” plan will work — but the rhetoric is dynamite.

Administration officials hint strongly that Obama’s next messaging move is to take Republicans head on in the court of public opinion. He’ll attempt to engineer a repeat of the grassroots-pressure strategy he executed in the debt fight, when Obama used his bully pulpit to urge voters to phone their members of Congress and demand compromise — a move that jammed Capitol switchboards, but didn’t appear to alter the terms of the bargain he struck with Republicans.

Jared Bernstein, a former Obama economic adviser who is now a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, said a grassroots strategy is the president’s best bet — and that it should be themed on a simple policy plan. (Bernstein would go with a plan he calls FAST!, which would pump billions of dollars into maintenance and retrofit projects at local schools across the country.)

Obama needs to “latch onto one big, visible idea that will create a lot of jobs,” Bernstein said. “Argue your heart out for it. And if the opposition gets between you and action on jobs, tell the American public who’s blocking you.”

Other left-leaning economists advise an even bigger policy shift.
“He needs more than a message,” said Robert Shapiro, a former Clinton administration economic adviser who now runs the consulting firm Sonecon. “He needs a fresh program that provides a narrative of how his continued leadership will lead to much stronger job creation, income gains and growth than we’re seeing today. This would entail, for example, cuts in payroll taxes on both sides, and a serious plan to bring down foreclosures and stabilize housing prices.”

Michael Mandel, the chief economic strategist at the Progressive Policy Institute, said Obama must rethink his economic approach entirely — starting by jettisoning the notion that more tax cuts or spending to stimulate demand will actually boost the recovery. (Mandel contends pumping more money into the economy largely helps Americans buy more imported goods, creating jobs overseas but not at home.)

“His message should be: We’ve come to a fork in the road,” Mandel said. “We have deep structural problems. Our production base is eroding, our innovators are being tied up with regulations, and we have an investment shortfall. I will do whatever I can to fix these problems.” He added: “But the first thing he has to do is admit that the economy has problems that can’t be solved by demand stimulus, including a growing competitiveness problem that’s not going to go away.”

Administration officials suggest that Obama probably won’t shift his message or his policy much, if at all, until Congress returns after Labor Day.

Presidents, after all, don’t typically roll out big new plans in August.

Then again, this isn’t a typical August.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:09 am
Well the much-touted Labor Union attack on the Wisconsin Senate was a fizzile - the Republicans lost two seats but remained in control of the State Senate. This was to be the exemplary punishment of state governors and legislatures that dared to take on the corrupt ownership of state finances that the public sector unions had carefully cultivated over the past several decades. Despite their best efforts at organizing demonstrations, financing lawsuits and recall campaigns (and seriously trashing the state capital along the way), they have failed at every turn - first in the courts and now in the recall effort.

As a result we will likely see more aggressive approaches taken by other state governments to curtail the nexus of state employee unionism and its political payoffs to legislators who vote for unsustainable levels salaries, benefits and job protection for unionmembers in increasingly dysfunctional state agencies and schools.

Note: there are assertions of fact here that are not backed up by links. However, my remarks are based on the assumption that the reader is literate and generally aware of current events. Those who don't meet those criteria are free to ignore the post.
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:15 am
@JPB,
The presidents speeches are just song and dances for the american people. All he ends up saying is that the big bad republicans are tying his hands and preventing him from helping the american people out of a jam. If you really want to help him out make sure not to give any power to any republicans so he can actually start to make things happen.

All of that is nothing but male cow feces though. The president is nothing different than any republican in his policies, he just wants to point the finger away from him while he continues to speed the train towards the cliff where there is no bridge.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:23 am
Gold breaks $1780 AND $1790.

That is all.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:24 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

In the meantime, I read Obama's August-8 speech after the credit downgrade by Standard and Poors. Reader's digest: All our problems are eminently solvable. And the solution is . . . balancing the budget. (Sigh)


It is a significant change from the current year fiscal budget he submitted seven months ago. That one, though failing to meet Krugman't standard for massive new "stimulus" funding, did indicate a significant increase in the current deficit from already high levels.

However, there is little indication that Obama really intends to balance the budget. He has already ignored the recommendations of the special commission he appointed to study the subject. The deadlock between Democrats, who insist on tax increases as the principal means of reducing the deficit and Republicans who insist on entitlement reform instead continues undiluted. The select Congressional Committee that will comvene next month is empowered only to find an additional trillion in cuts over the 10 year budget period - chump change. Even this effort may end in deadlock.

I think he is focused on 2012 and his shrinking prospects of reelection. He may also be clueless.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:28 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Note: there are assertions of fact here that are not backed up by links. However, my remarks are based on the assumption that the reader is literate and generally aware of current events. Those who don't meet those criteria are free to ignore the post.


You look foolish when making statements like this, but including things in your post that are perfectly false, such as:

Quote:
(and seriously trashing the state capital along the way)


You are apparently unaware that, while the above was reported in the Conservative media for a week or two, the charges turned out to be perfectly untrue. No serious damage was done to the state capital building at all by the protestors.

How do you account for the discrepancy between your false statements, and your challenging assertion at the bottom of your post?

Here's how it's done, by the way:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117409458.html

That's how you make a link - just copy the line from the top of your browser right into the A2K text reply box. It's easy! I assure you that you could do so with no real effort on your part. Why not give it a spin?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:36 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
However, my remarks are based on the assumption that the reader is literate and generally aware of current events.


why do you insist on setting yourself up like this?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:38 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Thomas wrote:

In the meantime, I read Obama's August-8 speech after the credit downgrade by Standard and Poors. Reader's digest: All our problems are eminently solvable. And the solution is . . . balancing the budget. (Sigh)


It is a significant change from the current year fiscal budget he submitted seven months ago. That one, though failing to meet Krugman't standard for massive new "stimulus" funding, did indicate a significant increase in the current deficit from already high levels.

However, there is little indication that Obama really intends to balance the budget. He has already ignored the recommendations of the special commission he appointed to study the subject. The deadlock between Democrats, who insist on tax increases as the principal means of reducing the deficit and Republicans who insist on entitlement reform instead continues undiluted. The select Congressional Committee that will comvene next month is empowered only to find an additional trillion in cuts over the 10 year budget period - chump change. Even this effort may end in deadlock.

I think he is focused on 2012 and his shrinking prospects of reelection. He may also be clueless.


Once again, your post is riddled with factual errors:

Quote:
He has already ignored the recommendations of the special commission he appointed to study the subject.


His special commission provided no recommendations. The commission failed to reach consensus amongst it's members and broke up with no official findings. You're probably referring to the opinions put out by Erskine and Bowles separately from the main commission; but you really ought to, as a follower of modern events, know this and not write things that are incorrect.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/there-was-no-deficit-commission-report-why-do-post-columnist-feel-the-need-to-lie-about-this

Quote:
The deadlock between Democrats, who insist on tax increases as the principal means of reducing the deficit and Republicans who insist on entitlement reform instead continues undiluted.


Democrats have not insisted on tax increases as the 'principal' means of reducing the deficit in the slightest. They have only insisted that they be a COMPONENT of deficit reduction. You are exaggerating for effect here, while conveniently ignoring that the Republicans have refused to even consider tax raises in any form.

I would also note that multiple news reports indicated that Obama was indeed willing to put entitlement reforms on the table in the last budget deal, and did so at more than one meeting. But, as a follower of modern events, surely you knew that already.

Quote:
The select Congressional Committee that will comvene next month is empowered only to find an additional trillion in cuts over the 10 year budget period - chump change.


Also incorrect - they are also empowered to find additional revenues to help close the deficit gap.

Quote:
I think he is focused on 2012 and his shrinking prospects of reelection. He may also be clueless.


Shrinking prospects? Polling over the last few weeks has seen Obama pull ahead of all his challengers, and even pull significantly ahead of the 'Unnamed Republican candidate,' who he had been trailing all year. Not only that, but Obama has seen his lead expand in key states over his potential opponents, and the GOP has seen it's level of unpopularity skyrocket - the GOP is now more unpopular than in the months leading up to the 2006 and 2008 elections.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/obama-surges-to-lead-against-generic-republican.php?ref=fpblg

The reason that people ask you for links to support your assertions, is because you are incredibly sloppy in your use of language to describe things, and regularly put forth certain things as 'facts' which are absolutely false. And there's an easy way to avoid it - link to data or third-party confirmation of what you say!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:43 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
It was Cyclo who suggested that I have likely become accustomed to having my word accepted without question - a subject I had not raised at all.


I understand that you would not raise the matter. Your unwillingness to back up your opinions has been commented on, and discussed many times. I've been watching you dodge requests for evidence for years now.

You are an interesting poster, but your inability/unwillingness to provide supporting documentation is frustrating (particularly when you're arguing a point I agree with).



Should we providing you the dossiers of who we've met and how very important that is before we comment on posts? I'll be sure to update my list on the 'A2Kers you've met' thread.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 12:09 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Your unwillingness to back up your opinions has been commented on, and discussed many times. I've been watching you dodge requests for evidence for years now.

You are an interesting poster, but your inability/unwillingness to provide supporting documentation is frustrating (particularly when you're arguing a point I agree with).
It's also true that a very large fraction of the frustrated demands for backup involve some trivial "gotcha" subset of the issue under discussion. In other cases, the demands come from those (Cyclo prominently included) who only very rarely live up to the high standards they very loudly proclaim, and for whom the issue has become an enduring dodge to avoid undesired outcomes in the discussion. Finally, a very large fraction of the citations offered as "proof" for assertions made on this forum come from obviously biased sources, yet that aspect of things usually goes unchallenged.

An equally relevant feature of the internet is its ability to fairly quickly satisfy the curiosity of anyone looking for facts. What really should be the standard for references here? Where is the divide between readily accessible knowledge and a "requirement" for references?

Like others here, I have limited time for all this, and have no interest in responding to many such demands, patrticularly in cases where it appears to me they don't merit the effort. I think most of us apply such limits to this conversation.

ehBeth wrote:

Should we providing you the dossiers of who we've met and how very important that is before we comment on posts? I'll be sure to update my list on the 'A2Kers you've met' thread.
No. Not at all. I added that fact only to help you understand that Cyclo, Thomas and I have met and already have impressions of each other's age, experience and background. Merely a reference to fact to make the rest more understandable to you.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 12:27 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

why do you insist on setting yourself up like this?


In part to get Cyclo to waste his efforts on niggling counterpoint like the post directly above.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 12:28 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Finally, a very large fraction of the citations offered as "proof" for assertions made on this forum come from obviously biased sources, yet that aspect of things usually goes unchallenged.


It doesn't matter if a source is 'obviously biased.' That's just a lazy dodge on your part to avoid dealing with facts which don't match your narrative. Not only that, but - as I said above - I often post sources from 'obviously biased' right-wing sites. Are those right-wing sources also invalid, and not worth quoting? Who do you think constitutes a non-biased source?

How do you account for the fact that you regularly post complete falsehoods, and ignore when this is pointed out to you? Is that a facet of the same laziness, or do you just expect people not to notice or care? People do notice and care.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 12:32 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

why do you insist on setting yourself up like this?


In part to get Cyclo to waste his efforts on niggling counterpoint like the post directly above.


It's never a waste of time to point out your repeated errors, George. And I'll never stop doing it. The point of the exercise isn't for you, it's for other readers of this thread - who over time will come to realize, as I have, that you talk out your ass about 90% of the time. When it's just your opinion (Such as, 'Obama is no better than Jimmy Carter'), that's one thing; but when you are presenting information as if it were factual, it's not appropriate - and you really ought to know better by now.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 12:46 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
What is the "information" you mention Cyclo? I've forgotten. I agree that we should have it though whatever it is.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 01:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
When it's just your opinion (Such as, 'Obama is no better than Jimmy Carter'), that's one thing;

Not that Jimmy Carter was a bad president to begin with. By the numbers, the American economy performed okay under Carter. (Productivity here, income inequality here, unemployment rate here.) It's time for liberals to stop repeating, and to start challenging, the Republican talking point that Carter was the quintessential bad president.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 02:16 pm
Dow down 500+ Gold hits 1800

That's all
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 03:05 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:


Quote:
By National Journal
updated 8/9/2011 4:15:46 PM ET

Analysis

Nearly halfway into his speech from the State Dining Room on Monday, President Obama finally launched into what amounts to his core job-creation message these days. He ticked off a familiar trio of policy initiatives — extend unemployment benefits and the temporary payroll tax cut, spend more on infrastructure — and then blamed congressional Republicans for not enacting them.



Nice. I disagree with two points and have reservations about the third.

Unemployment compensation is darn nice when you lose your job. When benefits extend to nearly two years, you are paying people not to work. I think we are getting what we are paying for. Beyond some reasonalbe cushion effect, we are just dumping undirected money into the economy and waiting for some Keynesian multipler to kick in. We're still waiting.

Same for temporary payroll tax cuts. We are spending borrowed money in hopes the economy will be stimulated. Not to suggest that anyone is going to start hiring because there is a slight tax reduction, but wouldn't it seem at least a bit more effective to reduce the employers' portion, rather than the employees'. It would still dump cash into the economy, and out of the Treasury, and might, at least possibly tip the hiring decision.

Infrastructure spending has potential, but only if the spending results in an economic benefit. Paying to install signs notifying that the continuing highway repairs are our stimulus dollars at work has no benefit to anyone except sign makers and politicians looking for advantage in the next election.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 03:43 pm
@roger,
That's precisely the point in his speech where I groaned out loud.

I don't know that I agree with you that unemployment extensions pay people not to work. Mr B has been without work for going on 16 months now. He's applied in-state and out for jobs that, in some cases, were for a fraction of his former salary. He's still looking but hasn't signed up for unemployment benefits. We're living on my income and our savings because we choose not to accept public funds when we don't need them in order to survive. We've had to cut back but we don't feel that entitled means obligated. I doubt that we're unique. There's really no one-scenario-fits-all out there on the unemployment front and it really is a very difficult time to find work, especially meaningful work for unemployed professionals.

I don't agree with the SS payroll tax reductions at all - not if we plan on keeping SS as we know it. If anything, they need to go up. If they want to put extra cash in the hands of consumers they should find ways that don't negatively impact the trust funds.

I think there's a large potential for infrastructure improvements but I agree that the signs are bullshit.

Speaking of not being unique in choosing to skip entitlements... I recently read a letter to the editor in an out-of-state paper written by a senior citizen who hadn't signed up for Medicare. He purchased private BCBS coverage when he retired because he could afford it and didn't want to accept public funds for his health care needs. He wrote that he'd recently had to undergo a number of tests and that his medical bills totaled about $7,000. From the way he described his procedures it seemed that they would be Part B covered services under Medicare. BCBS denied coverage because he was eligible for Medicare and hadn't signed up. They told him he needed to enroll in Medicare before they would process his claims. Perhaps he was confused about the coverage he'd purchased and was carrying a medi-gap policy but he seemed to know what he was talking about. It would seriously piss me off if private insurance refused to cover services that would be covered under Part B when Part B is supposed to be optional.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 04:01 pm
@roger,
Quote:
When benefits extend to nearly two years, you are paying people not to work. I think we are getting what we are paying for. Beyond some reasonalbe cushion effect, we are just dumping undirected money into the economy and waiting for some Keynesian multipler to kick in. We're still waiting


Let see my former company pay into the unemployment state trust fund for 33 years repeat 33 years to cover me and even with extended unemployment benefits I question if my grand total sum of 250 dollars a week payments came anywhere near to the amount the company pay into that fund for three plus decades.

Nor do I think that anyone earning a middle class or near middle class living would not wish to return to the labor market as soon as possible instead of receiving Florida maximum unemployment payments of 250 a week.

As far as waiting for Keynesian to kick in we all had been waiting for the lowest tax rates in generations to cause the economic to take off and waiting and waiting.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 04:10 pm
@JPB,
Un huh. I do know the jobs aren't there, in many cases, and 16 months is a plausible length of time. I certainly didn't mean to imply that unemployment benefits immediately caused most people to quit looking and enjoy the benefits. I do think it's a factor in how selective one becomes. Combine that with the frustration of a hundred resumes, applications, and targeted cover letters to land one interview - only to come away with the feeling that the opening was publicized only because it was required by company policy. Truth is, they have often decided to hire a friend or promote someone internally. The rest is just expensive window dressing.

I'll make you a confession; I took early Social Security because I knocked my self out looking for almost any kind of job.

On the person that declined Medicare B, I would advise them to get into it as soon as possible. There as a penalty for not accepting it, and I believe it amounts to a 10% per year increase in penalty in addition to normal inflationary increases.

Not sure about that insurance decision. You very well can't get any of the Medigap policies with out Medicare B. I was not aware that a policy independent of Medicare would not cover Medicare items. If true, I certainly hope that is reflected in the premiums.
0 Replies
 
 

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