114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 05:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
1. There was no link of any kind in the posts of Thomas to which I was replying. You are simply wrong on that point.

2. One can find almost anything on the internet, and I don't think that links to obviously biased sources "proves" anything - no matter who does it.

3. I have lived a long time and done many things that do indeed often leave me with some implied credit - whether deserved or undeserverd is another question. In contrast you are rather young and have far less experience or the credit (deserved or undeserved) that often goes with it. I haven't raised these points because I haven't ever thought they added anything significant to the conversation. However now that you have done so we should also considfer your relative ignorasnce and inexperience.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 05:58 pm
@reasoning logic,
The station I listen to is 760am in Denver CO. www.760am.net

@Cy
Radio is market driven. If the liberal talk shows don't bring in the cash then they are bound to go off the air. Air America is the perfect example of this.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 06:03 pm
@Baldimo,
I can only guess it depends on location unless you have satellite radio!
Here in northern Florida you will only hear the right downing the left all day long!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 06:11 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

1. There was no link of any kind in the posts of Thomas to which I was replying. You are simply wrong on that point.


But, I didn't say he provided a link. I said he provided a SOURCE. Which he did. So it's fair to say that I was, in fact, correct.

Accuracy matters... you should respond to what people say, and not what you THINK they said.

Quote:
2. One can find almost anything on the internet, and I don't think that links to obviously biased sources "proves" anything - no matter who does it.


The words 'obviously biased' totally screw that sentence up for you. I mean, you were almost able to make it through with a perfectly valid comment, but had to go and blow it there at the end. Because - as I'm sure you don't need me to tell you - character assassination on your part doesn't change or challenge factual arguments on their part.

I could simply refer to you as 'obviously biased' and discount every single thing you say, without bothering to engage or respond to any of it, all while constantly insulting and demeaning you; would you consider that to be a valid way to treat what you have to say? To contribute? I doubt it. So why do you so cavalierly do so to others?

A lot of my links are to the National Review, by the way. I agree that they have an obvious bias, but that doesn't stop them from being correct a lot of the time. Can you not display similar equanimity?

Quote:
3. I have lived a long time and done many things that do indeed often leave me with some implied credit - whether deserved or undeserverd is another question. In contrast you are rather young and have far less experience or the credit (deserved or undeserved) that often goes with it. I haven't raised these points because I haven't ever thought they added anything significant to the conversation. However now that you have done so we should also considfer your relative ignorasnce and inexperience.


Allow me to educate you on something: on the internet, in the virtual realm of thought and idea exchange, your previous experience and the things you have or haven't done or said in real life mean absolutely nothing. They are for the most part immaterial, and when they are not, they are unverifiable. You cannot rely upon such an inflated view of your own importance to create or carry arguments for you, because none of that matters one whit to anyone here - in terms of whether or not your political and economic arguments are convincing to those who read them.

And you should expect to be challenged and questioned on them. Do you think that you are a wise sage, who gets a free pass on such things? I assure you that your constant tendency to state things that are perfectly and completely false - not matters of opinion, but factual falsehoods - gave the lie to that concept long ago.

In terms of discussions of policy, politics and economics on the internet, I think it's fair to say that I have far more experience than you do. I wouldn't dream of trying to tell you what the right way to steer a naval ship would be, because I haven't the foggiest clue about that. However, you seem to feel that your real-life experiences do indeed give you authority in areas totally unconnected to them, and that's a complete mistake.

Try it, as a thought experiment, if nothing else: pretend that you actually had to prove things to others, if you wanted them to believe what you said was true, instead of simply living by assertion. I think you would quickly find the quality of your argumentation (and the results) would improve tremendously.

Cycloptichorn
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 06:15 pm
@Baldimo,
There is much to learn from both sides of the isle but if you are listening to someone who demonizes the other side all day long then you are listening to an extremist in my opinion.

We should listen to both side to get a somewhat equal view point in my opinion!

These extremist are the ones dividing us.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 06:27 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe you have a very considerable burden of proof that you certainly have not met.

Fortunately, you don't see that as a problem when you make claims without backing them up. I think I'll use the same privilege on this particular point, and refrain from carrying the burden of proof that you believe I must carry to persuade you.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 06:43 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
3. I have lived a long time and done many things that do indeed often leave me with some implied credit


you may believe this, but you 'd best be cautious if you think anyone IRL or on the net believes along with you.

cyclo and Thomas get credit for their posts because they provide back-up for the majority of what they are presenting as facts. If people question them, they pop back with more evidence.

Waving the old man flag doesn't do you any credit, and it's embarrassing to posters of a similar vintage.

~~~

In any case, if long life carries a particular posting value you'd better defer to posters like hamburger/hamburgboy. You're a pup in comparison.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 06:51 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:

cyclo and Thomas get credit for their posts because they provide back-up for the majority of what they are presenting as facts. If people question them, they pop back with more evidence.


To be fair, I have recently stopped doing this with George, because he never provides info when I ask, and I sorta gave up. And it really does make it faster to post when you don't stop to link to stuff.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 06:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

1. There was no link of any kind in the posts of Thomas to which I was replying. You are simply wrong on that point.


But, I didn't say he provided a link. I said he provided a SOURCE. Which he did. So it's fair to say that I was, in fact, correct.

Accuracy matters... you should respond to what people say, and not what you THINK they said.

Cycloptichorn


But there was no link and no source in Thomas' post to which I replied - or others nearby. Here it is in full;
Thomas wrote:
parados wrote:
Quote:

When one side is trying to compromise and gives the other side 80% of what they want, why would you vote both sides out?

Because both sides hold positions well to the right of the average American voter. To get the representatives back in sync with the represented, it would help to throw both parties out. So if I could wave a magic wand, replacing America's Republicans with European-style Christian Democrats and America's Democrats with European-style Social Democrats, I would do it in a heartbeat. That would replace both parties with alternatives that stand to the left of America's Democrats. And more importantly, it would realign the views of the average politician with the views of the average voter.


I'm sure it is difficult to read or listen when you are preaching so loudly, but, as you are so committed to accuracy in your extensive self-congratulations, it may be worthwhile for you to consult the relevant facts.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 07:38 pm
@georgeob1,
You are correct, in that I had thought you had responded to a different post of Thomas', in which he referenced pollingreport.com. I apologize for misconstruing what we were talking about.

But, I think we both know that was hardly the only point worth considering in my last post. You can respond to the rest or not as you see fit.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 08:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

But, I think we both know that was hardly the only point worth considering in my last post. You can respond to the rest or not as you see fit.

Cycloptichorn


Why should I bother since these "other points" were also based on the false premise that I had unfairly demanded proofs from those who always provide them. In this instance the keystone to a mountain of boasftul rhetoric was demonstrated to be but sand.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 08:37 pm
@georgeob1,
And when did you provide actual evidence of Obama's regulations that were hurting the economy goerge? I guess I must have missed it amongst your claims that had nothing to do with Obama or regulations.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 10:06 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

you may believe this, but you 'd best be cautious if you think anyone IRL or on the net believes along with you.

cyclo and Thomas get credit for their posts because they provide back-up for the majority of what they are presenting as facts. If people question them, they pop back with more evidence.

Waving the old man flag doesn't do you any credit, and it's embarrassing to posters of a similar vintage.

~~~

In any case, if long life carries a particular posting value you'd better defer to posters like hamburger/hamburgboy. You're a pup in comparison.


It was Cyclo who suggested that I have likely become accustomed to having my word accepted without question - a subject I had not raised at all. I merely acknowledged the possibility, but pointed out that there is another side to that coin that pertains to him as well. If he wants one he must take the other. I wasn't waving any flag at all. Perhaps you too should read more carefully before you jump in.

Cyclo Thomas and I have met and we have direct impressions of each other.

It appears to me that there is more than a little projection going on here.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 12:06 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

Why should I bother since these "other points" were also based on the false premise that I had unfairly demanded proofs from those who always provide them.


This is not the premise of the rest of my post in the slightest.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 06:46 am


Yep, it's official... Cyclotroll is in full panic mode Laughing
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 09:19 am
In the meantime, I read Obama's August-8 speech after the credit downgrade by Standard and Poors. Reader's digest: All our problems are eminently solvable. And the solution is . . . balancing the budget. (Sigh)
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 09:24 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

In the meantime, I read Obama's August-8 speech after the credit downgrade by Standard and Poors. Reader's digest: All our problems are eminently solvable. And the solution is . . . balancing the budget. (Sigh)


I know. It kills me too. It's as if he thinks the only way to win is to co-opt the language of his opponents, and get out in front of their criticisms... when he really ought to be doing the exact opposite.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 09:42 am
August 10, 2011 4:00 A.M.

Unbalanced
Obama wants more taxes for more spending, not for debt reduction.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 09:45 am
@Thomas,
I watched it live on TV (while on vacation) and was never more disappointed to hear more of the same pablum in my life. He could have plugged in a tape from three-four weeks ago and saved himself the time. He still wants to be negotiator-in-chief and hasn't a clue that he's hoping against hope that the R's give more value to their oath of office than their pledge to Grover Norquist. Never going to happen....
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2011 09:54 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Guys trying to educated the great unwashed mass of the American people with special reference to fox network/tea party members with an understand of basic economic princples are beyond the ability of any president.

Look at some of our leaders who are selling the idea of a balance budget amendment with a straight face and unless they are complete fools they must know that such an amendment if it would come into being would be a complete disaster when we next hit a problem that required the government to pump 100s of billions of dollars into the economic in short order.

When the economic have a major downturn or hit a crisis like the mortgage/bond market meltdown balancing the budget by all modern economic theories is of secondary important to increasing the M1 supply.

Look at H20 postings where he had stated that we need more tax cuts on top of having the lowers tax rate in generations and a GNP/DEBT ratio that now match what we came out of WW2 with.

He is not aware that it was the massive spending of the government during WW2 that ended the Great Depression and it was a 80 percents or so top tax rate at the time that allow us afterward to reduce that high debt to GNP ratio without returning to the depression by not getting the funds from the part of the population that drive the demand for good and services
/
You think anyone could get those ideas through to him?
0 Replies
 
 

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