Where is the US economy headed?

Dig it up yourself, if that's your interest.

Miller wrote:

Dig it up yourself, if that's your interest.

Bull. Your comment is invalidated from the discussion.

Making an affirmative claim and then demanding that others provide evidence to back that claim up is a Logical Fallacy.

I submit that you have no evidence and are simply talking out your ass.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Miller wrote:

Dig it up yourself, if that's your interest.

Bull. Your comment is invalidated from the discussion.

Making an affirmative claim and then demanding that others provide evidence to back that claim up is a Logical Fallacy.

I submit that you have no evidence and are simply talking out your ass.

Cycloptichorn

Bull back at you! Why should I do your leg work?

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence!

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence!

Cycloptichorn

So if somebody told you they did something to your face, it still can't happen? It takes a bureaucrat to survey that person and put the data into a graph to make it true? You are totally amazing, cyclops.

A few things:

First, poverty is not a choice for many people. You have not shown how this is true, and my point is that buying a small amount of luxury items doesn't change this.

Second, what you are basically describing is a life for people who are poor, where they are blamed if they decide to spend any of their money on enjoying their life, instead of saving it all for retirement 50 years in the future. And, given inflation, there's no guarantee that that money will be enough to retire on, anyways. You're basically asking people to lead a life with no enjoyment - not any that anyone else has, that costs any money at all - so that in the end of their life they may not be so poor. Not a reasonable position.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence!

Cycloptichorn

So if somebody told you they did something to your face, it still can't happen? It takes a bureaucrat to survey that person and put the data into a graph to make it true? You are totally amazing, cyclops.

Quote:

Don't be ridiculous.
If I tell you, 'There's a town in missouri where all the people walk on their hands,' would you accept that on face value, or would you say 'really? You have any proof of that?'

If several people tell me that, or if the person telling me that is totally honest, then why not believe it? It is just as believable as some bureaucrats graphs. And if I had been there as well and had seen people walking on their hands, then I would believe it. What Miller told about, I have also seen the same thing. Those people are industrious and progressive, and it is simply a fact, not some figment of somebody's imagination.
Cycloptichorn

Poverty is a choice for some people, through the other choices they make. It may not be a conscious choice because some have not been able to figure out basic consequences of choices. Some may not have a choice, especially at certain times of their lives. Another misconception about the poor, the people classified as poor are in a revolving door, with many moving out of being poor, and mostly younger people moving into it. A percentage do remain poor, but a large number do not stay there. This is an important point to remember when looking at statistics.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything. Its a free country and people are free to spend on what they choose to spend it on. However, if people spend foolishly and then expect the rest of us to pay for their necessities, thats when I am going to say something. If I sacrifice my immediate wants for a prudent savings for the future to pay for my necessities, why should I have to pay for those people that choose not to. My position is entirely reasonable. Its about responsibility and reaping the consequences of your own choiees. We are free to do whatever we want, but we also have the responsibility of bearing the results of what we want to do.

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence!

Cycloptichorn

So if somebody told you they did something to your face, it still can't happen? It takes a bureaucrat to survey that person and put the data into a graph to make it true? You are totally amazing, cyclops.

Don't be ridiculous.

If I tell you, 'There's a town in missouri where all the people walk on their hands,' would you accept that on face value, or would you say 'really? You have any proof of that?'

Anecdotal evidence has no place in an online discussion. There's no way to verify the accuracy of it at all, therefore, it is not proof/evidence of anything. Where did Miller get his/her information on Asian immigrants? I suspect that he/she simply made it up.

If someone tells you they 'did something,' then they should be able to provide at least some evidence that they did, if challenged on it. It doesn't mean that they didn't, if they can't; but they can't use that assertion of action in order to build a stronger argument, as Miller attempted to do.

Cycloptichorn

I submit that you have no evidence and are simply talking out your ass.

I live in the real world, not the virutal world, and by the way GOOGLE isn't the name of my God...

Yes, but you are blaming them for spending some of their money on enjoying their life. You are saying that it is their fault, if they spend any money on enjoyment, instead of saving it all.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence!

Cycloptichorn

So if somebody told you they did something to your face, it still can't happen? It takes a bureaucrat to survey that person and put the data into a graph to make it true? You are totally amazing, cyclops.

Don't be ridiculous.

If I tell you, 'There's a town in missouri where all the people walk on their hands,' would you accept that on face value, or would you say 'really? You have any proof of that?'

Anecdotal evidence has no place in an online discussion. There's no way to verify the accuracy of it at all, therefore, it is not proof/evidence of anything. Where did Miller get his/her information on Asian immigrants? I suspect that he/she simply made it up.

If someone tells you they 'did something,' then they should be able to provide at least some evidence that they did, if challenged on it. It doesn't mean that they didn't, if they can't; but they can't use that assertion of action in order to build a stronger argument, as Miller attempted to do.

Cycloptichorn

I get the distinct feeling, that you don't have much "living experience" under your belt and that your God goes by the name, "GOOGLE". Well my son, there's plenty out there in the real world that isn't on GOOGLE and there's plenty out there you haven't seen.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yes, but you are blaming them for spending some of their money on enjoying their life. You are saying that it is their fault, if they spend any money on enjoyment, instead of saving it all.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn

Utter nonsense. I am not blaming anybody for spending anything on anything that is legal. What I do blame is them spending on frivolity, then claiming they need the rest of us to pay for their necessities, the same necessities that we spent our money on for ourselves instead of frivolities.

Cyclops, have you been smoking again? Please use just an ounce of reason.

I don't have time to rebut all of your other silly arguments and mis-characterization of my points.

I would have to look it up, but I think, maporsche, your tax amount is probably wrong. I doubt they would pay any income tax at all, so thats a starter before even looking at the rest of your figures.

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yes, but you are blaming them for spending some of their money on enjoying their life. You are saying that it is their fault, if they spend any money on enjoyment, instead of saving it all.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn

Utter nonsense. I am not blaming anybody for spending anything on anything that is legal. What I do blame is them spending on frivolity, then claiming they need the rest of us to pay for their necessities, the same necessities that we spent our money on for ourselves instead of frivolities.

Cyclops, have you been smoking again? Please use just an ounce of reason.

I don't have time to rebut all of your other silly arguments and mis-characterization of my points.

So, you admit that you do blame people who are poor for spending some of their money on 'frivolities,' i.e., enjoying their lives. You claim that they would not be poor if they did not do this, therefore they are merely trying to leech off of the rest of you hardworking folk.

Reason would tell you that many of the 'poor' are so because they are stuck in a position where it would take a huge amount of change in their lives - far more then just not buying a pack of ciggies or two - to get them out of their situation. You are the one who started this mess by blaming poor folk, for being poor, b/c they don't save every single penny to get ahead.

cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn