Where is the US economy headed?

July 31 (Bloomberg) -- On Wall Street, Bear Stearns Cos., Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., Merrill Lynch & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., are as good as junk.

Bonds of U.S. investment banks lost about $1.5 billion of their face value this month as the risk of owning the securities increased the most since at least October 2004, according to Merrill indexes. Prices of credit-default swaps based on the debt imply that their credit ratings are below investment grade, data compiled by Moody's Investors Service show.

The highest level of defaults in 10 years on subprime mortgages and a $33 billion pileup of unsold bonds and loans for funding acquisitions are driving investors away from debt of the New York-based securities firms. Concerns about credit quality may get worse because banks promised to provide $300 billion in debt for leveraged buyouts announced this year.

On Wall Street, Bear Stearns Cos., Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., Merrill Lynch & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., are as good as junk.

And to put that one million into perspective, in fifty years, anyone retiring with one million will be one of the poor ones. Probably be worth about $300,000 in today's dollars.

Poverty is a choice for many people. Example, what percentage of the poverty level people smoke? If it is 2 packs a day, what is the cost now, $4.00 ?, so $8.00 x 30 days is $240 per month. If it is cheap cigarettes and only a pack a day, then the cost decreases, but still is significantly more than the $20 per month that generates over 300 grand by retirement.

Cigarette smoking is only one blatant and obvious example of wasteful spending and lifestyle choice, and I could cite many more, so I think it should be obvious that how we spend our money is a choice. I wholeheartedly agree with imposter that it isn't so much determined by what we make, but how we spend. When people spend, they are making a statement of what is most important to them. If a quick puff on a cigarette is more important than future security or a few bucks in the bank for an unexpected car breakdown or appliance repair, or medical insurance, that is what freedom is about, so when their car breaks down, or their appliance gives out, or they need to go to the doctor for a strep test but don't have the money, should they expect the rest of us to foot their bill?

I started without a dime, cyclops, and I can remember eating bread and gravy for meals because that is all we had. Many of my shirts were made from flour sacks.

okie wrote:

I started without a dime, cyclops, and I can remember eating bread and gravy for meals because that is all we had. Many of my shirts were made from flour sacks.

Then, you have forgotten those days, for to say that folks who smoke cigarettes wouldn't be poor if they just gave up those things, is ridiculous.

I will also say that 2 packs a day is a serious drug addiction; even so, heavy smokers like that buy by the carton or case, so they don't pay anywhere near what you quoted.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

I started without a dime, cyclops, and I can remember eating bread and gravy for meals because that is all we had. Many of my shirts were made from flour sacks.

Then, you have forgotten those days, for to say that folks who smoke cigarettes wouldn't be poor if they just gave up those things, is ridiculous.

It is not ridiculous, not at all. They would not be as poor, cyclops, do the math, especially if they spent it on something useful. Also, if the poor quit buying lottery tickets, they would not be as poor. How many more examples do you need. Are you clueless or what. I have been poor, so I know what I am talking about. Have you ever been poor?

Quote:

I will also say that 2 packs a day is a serious drug addiction; even so, heavy smokers like that buy by the carton or case, so they don't pay anywhere near what you quoted.

Cycloptichorn

Fine, they still spend alot, plus they are increasing their health care bills down the road with more colds, and eventually cancer. Are you trying to tell me they can't help it at all?

Your answer fits your mindset alright. Go ahead and preach your hopelessness. You are a Democrat, thats for sure, or you vote for Democrats most of the time, one or the other, as that is their mindset as well. They tell people it is hopeless, that they are incapable of anything, and there is nothing they can do to help themselves. Pathetic, cyclops. I happen to believe people can help themselves tremendously and the opportunities are endless and abounding everywhere around them. Much of it lies within themselves. It is about choices, and that is why millions are beating the door down to get here. You need to read your own post again and realize how pathetic it is.

Precisely why I support Republicans or people that believe in this country, and that believe in the people, that we are not helpless, but opportunity abounds.

Poverty is a choice for many people. Example, what percentage of the poverty level people smoke? If it is 2 packs a day, what is the cost now, $4.00 ?, so $8.00 x 30 days is $240 per month. If it is cheap cigarettes and only a pack a day, then the cost decreases, but still is significantly more than the $20 per month that generates over 300 grand by retirement.

Many, many of our Asian-Americans come to the US dirt poor. They all get jobs, no matter the nature of the job and they also often pool their resources. It's common for newly arrived Asians to live 4-6 in a one bedroom apartment and yhat, of course saves on rent. Many get jobs in restaurants, and as a result get their meals there, too. This saves the Asian-Americans rent and food money and thus provides them with cash for investments.

In my town, many, many condos are being bought by newly arrived Asian-Americans . They arise from dirt-poor poverty, by hard work, conservation, saving and wise investment ( both educational investment as well as financial investment).

If these Asian-American immigrants can do this, why can't so many other poor Americans, who are constantly looking for welfare payments?

Let's say we have a family of four on an income of 38k per year. That's poor. If they spend 1750 per year on luxury items, that they then give up and put in to savings - yes, they would have more money then if they didn't buy any luxury items. but they still would be poor. These people aren't poor b/c they buy a lottery ticket every week, they are poor b/c they don't have the money to afford basic **** in our society.
Cycloptichorn