114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:10 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Reich is a paid hack of organized labor. He sits on their "Economic Advisory Council along with all the heads of the major unions and gets a very large salary from them.


Do you have a link to that? I just did some googling and didn't find any evidence that this is true, but perhaps you have a better source than I.

Just because you are a union-hater and reflexively bash anyone who supports unionization, doesn't make him wrong - or what he says wrong. But you knew that before you wrote your post, right?

Cycloptichorn
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:12 am
re georgeob:

As opposed of course to all the paid Republican senatorial and congressional hacks who do big business's bidding and receive extremely generous campaign contributions from them each election cycle, and in return screw American workers.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:14 am
@georgeob1,
george, You're using ad hominems rather than addressing what Reisch has said.

Quote:
What's Germany's secret? In sharp contrast to the decades of stagnant wages in America, real average hourly pay has risen almost 30 percent there since 1985. Germany has been investing substantially in education and infrastructure.

How did German workers do it? A big part of the story is German labor unions are still powerful enough to insist that German workers get their fair share of the economy's gains.


I don't know how you can determine he's a hack when he provides evidence for why Germany's economy is doing well with pay increases (30% since 1985), a lower unemployment, and their investment in education and infrastructure.

0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:21 am
Interesting that H2 Oboy cites Robert Reich. Guess that means he must agree with him. Here's a trenchant analysis of how the Republicans are screwing the economy, also from Reich, from Walter's post. I think it deserves more attention than just a cite (Thanks, Walter)

Quote:
The American economy can't get out of neutral until American workers have more money in their pockets to buy what they produce. And unions are the best way to give them the bargaining power to get better pay.

For three decades after World War II - I call it the "Great Prosperity" -- wages rose in tandem with productivity. Americans shared the gains of growth, and had enough money to buy what they produced.

That's largely due to the role of labor unions. In 1955, over a third of American workers in the private sector were unionized. Today, fewer than 7 percent are.

With the decline of unions came the stagnation of American wages. More and more of the total income and wealth of America has gone to the very top. Middle-class purchasing power depended on mothers going into paid work, everyone working longer hours, and, finally, the middle class going deep into debt, using their homes as collateral.

But now all these coping mechanisms are exhausted -- and we're living with the consequence.

Some say the Great Prosperity was an anomaly. America's major competitors lay in ruins. We had the world to ourselves. According to this view, there's no going back.

But this view is wrong. If you want to see the same basic bargain we had then, take a look at Germany now.

Germany is growing much faster than the United States. Its unemployment rate is now only 6.1 percent (we're now at 9.1 percent).

What's Germany's secret? In sharp contrast to the decades of stagnant wages in America, real average hourly pay has risen almost 30 percent there since 1985. Germany has been investing substantially in education and infrastructure.

How did German workers do it? A big part of the story is German labor unions are still powerful enough to insist that German workers get their fair share of the economy's gains.

That's why pay at the top in Germany hasn't risen any faster than pay in the middle. As David Leonhardt reported in the New York Times recently, the top 1 percent of German households earns about 11 percent of all income - a percent that hasn't changed in four decades.

Contrast this with the United States, where the top 1 percent went from getting 9 percent of total income in the late 1970s to more than 20 percent today.

The only way back toward sustained growth and prosperity in the United States is to remake the basic bargain linking pay to productivity. This would give the American middle class the purchasing power they need to keep the economy going.

Part of the answer is, as in Germany, stronger labor unions -- unions strong enough to demand a fair share of the gains from productivity growth.

The current Republican assault on workers' rights continues a thirty-year war on American workers' wages. That long-term war has finally taken its toll on the American economy.

It's time to fight back.



RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:47 am
@MontereyJack,
I have come to believe that people like waterman and george are paid political hacks because they refuse to consider absolute proofs that refute their posts.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:53 am
Quote:
June 16, 2011 9:25 AM
Playing the blame game

Dave Weigel noted in passing yesterday that President Obama’s approval rating, while down from the bump it received in May, “still seems insanely high considering how unhappy voters are about the economy.”

I agree. It’s not that Obama’s support is insanely high; it’s clearly not. The point is we would expect it to be much lower given public anger and frustration. In general, folks are widely dissatisfied with just about everything, and yet, the president’s support remains in the high 40s.

There are competing explanations for this, but something in the NBC/WSJ poll (pdf) stood out for me. Respondents were asked a good question:

“How responsible is President Obama and his administration’s policies for the country’s current economic conditions?”

Just 10% said Obama is “solely responsible,” and 24% said he’s “mainly responsible.” Nearly half the country (48%) believes the president is “only somewhat responsible,” while 16% consider him not responsible for economic conditions at all. These results are roughly the same as they were last fall, before the midterms.

In contrast, the same poll asked how responsible George W. Bush is for the economy. Nearly half the country (47%) believe Bush is either mainly or solely responsible, well more than blame Obama. In fact, more people hold Bush responsible now than they did last fall.

The point is, people are frustrated and pessimistic, but they don’t necessarily see President Obama as the culprit. Indeed, the poll asked, “When you think about the current economic conditions, do you feel that this is a situation that Barack Obama has inherited or is this a situation his policies are mostly responsible for?” A large 62% majority said he inherited the mess.

This may not keep up, but it may help explain why Obama’s approval rating hasn’t completely tanked.

The same poll, by the way, also asked about the debt ceiling. A 39% plurality said the limit shouldn’t be raised, 31% said they don’t know enough to answer, and just 28% said it should be raised. Then the poll told respondents that “some” people believe failing to raise the ceiling “could stop the government from meeting its obligations, including payments to those on Social Security and in the military, and cause a shock to the economy.”

Suddenly, support for doing the right thing went from a 28% minority to a 46% plurality.


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_06/playing_the_blame_game_1030303.php
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:56 am
@Cycloptichorn,
As most of us are aware, the GOP will be using the current economic disaster and the high unemployment rate to blame Obama to win votes during the next election. I wonder how that's going to play with the voters - considering the fact that most still blame GW Bush.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 01:33 pm
I see that California Governor Jerry Brown (D) just vetoed the budget that the legislature passed yesterday to close the state's $10Bn deficit. I don't know the details of the issues involved but this caught my eye. Politicians are really very clever people.
The law reads that if a budget is not approved, the legislature would lose a day's pay for every day that passed without a budget. They passed a budget so they now get paid even though it got vetoed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 02:15 pm
@realjohnboy,
The budget was full of gimmicks as usual; they passed it so they won't lose their pay - and not much else. They are a bunch of losers who only cares for their own security and benefit.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 04:46 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The situation of the middle class in the 1970s & 1980s was pretty good (except for the disastrous Democrat interegnum under the hapless & inept Jimmy Carter).

You keep dropping in suggestive tidbits like that as if they were facts. But they aren't. Employment and productivity were both higher in the last quarter of Carter's presidency (1/1981) than they were in its first quarter (1/1977). May I ask by what measure, and on what evidence, you are calling Carter's presidency "disastrous" for US manufacturing?
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 05:05 pm
@Thomas,
We had very little econonomic growth and very high rates of inflation. "Stagflation" was the word then used to describe the situation. Carter blamed the country for it all, describing a "malaise" that beset the nation; reduced the speed limit to 55 everywhere; stopped the reprocessing of nuclear fuel, thereby giving Japan, France, the UK and Russia (and now China and North Korea) monopolies on it; and wasted billions on fruitless goal gassification programs, that produced little gas but lots of obnoxious waste. I could give you more ....
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 05:06 pm
@Thomas,
Don't you think it is time Thomas that you removed your siggy line. It must be very embarrassing for dag. to see such rubbish, which was probably just a spur of the moment gush, repeated endlessly.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 05:10 pm
A somewhat humorous article on just one of the ways our government spends our tax dollars...

The Government's Gadget Habit Has Cost You Hundreds of Millions

Quote:
The Army has also spent $1.1 million on iPads to date, and you have to wonder if that's really necessary. Sorry to go all line-item on you, Army, but I have a hard time justifying the $1200 I've spent on mine, and I work for ******* Gizmodo. And while it's not a gadget, strictly speaking, we'd really love to know what's up with the $50,000 the State Department spent on a Porsche in Budapest in 2009. (And why it was funded by the Department of Justice? And can I get a job driving Porsches for the Department of Justice?)

I've got emails in to the procurement officers responsible for some these purchases (when one was listed) to try to learn more, but as of yet have not heard anything back. Unsurprising! Don't worry. We're still digging.

In the meantime, here's a breakdown of what the federal government spends on some of its favorite gadgets, courtesy of the federal procurement database.


I'm guessing the DOJ bought that Porsche as a bribe!!! Or payola or something. Or, I've been reading too much John Le Carre.




spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 05:12 pm
@georgeob1,
What can you expect from a peanut farmer George. You lot voted him in.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 05:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I got the name wrong: it's the "Economic Policy Institute" - a nonprofit fully funded by various labor unions, Among its 28 "directors" you will find the heads of the nine largest labor unions in the country including the AFL-CIO, AFT, AFSCME, UAW, SEIU, IAMAW (machinists), CWA (communications workers), Steelworkers, and Food & Commercial Workers , plus a salting of academics, including the esteemed Robert Reich. Their headquarters is in the lavishly appointed AFL-CIO headquarters on Constitution Ave, about a block from the Capitol in Washington. I have been there.

http://www.epi.org/pages/board/
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 05:44 pm
@Irishk,
What is especially annoying to me is the purchasing policy, rather than the specific items. In the early '60s, the Army was buying IBM Selectric typewritters. Not a thing wrong in the world with that. I have to wonder why the Army, with all its purchasing power ended up paying more that the retail civilian price.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 05:57 pm
@roger,
I don't get it, either. Also, why would the Dept. of Agriculture need nearly 50 Nook e-readers??? There are far better (and cheaper) ways to store and access technical papers. Heck, the Nook (I have one) is really limited in file formats. Just about any ordinary cheapo tablet would have been a better choice. Can you explain the Porsche, though?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 06:15 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
We had very little econonomic growth and very high rates of inflation.

So you keep repeating, yet you still don't bother looking up the data. If you had done so, you would have found that average economic growth, after correcting for inflation, was an average 3.6 percent per year under Carter. This is compared to 2.8 percent under Ford, and 3.7 percent under Reagan. Granted, the economy shrank in Carter's last year, and that's what got Reagan elected. But the claim that Carter's presidency as a whole was exceptionally bad for the economy---or Reagan's exceptionally good for that matter---is myth, not fact.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 06:32 pm
@Thomas,
The data is fluid, the price you pay for goods and services is going up and up.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 06:49 pm
@Thomas,
I believe you are discounting two important things here; (1) the fact that there is a time delay between the inception of government policy or Presidential statements and the economic effects; and (2) the trend (up or down) of economic indicators under an individual President or administration is more reflective both the real results of their actions and the public's reaction to them.

In these terms Carter was a loser.
 

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