114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 10:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I have a cd comeing due right away. I checked on the interest rate that they will pay if I renew. Would you believe they said .25% would be the new rate. Hell, I am going to withdraw all of it and take a trip.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 11:38 pm
@RABEL222,
Eyup. My main bank got a strong rating last year and immediately dropped their rate from .8 to .4 on a 12 month cd. As they have been maturing, they have been going elsewhere. Check out State Farm Bank online Rabel, and keep an eye on their "special term" CDs. I found one at the right time that offered 1.2% instead of the usual .8%. Had to go to a 15 month term, but so what? That's three times what my main bank pays.

Secure? Well, I happen to have more faith in FDIC than any other federal agency. One - if they default, every dollar denominated investment is pretty much done for. Two - it's headed by Sheila Bair (if I spelled it right). She seems much more involved in the job than the average bureaucrat, and less interested in politics.

Edit to add: Even my little town has two state farm agencies listed as bankers. No need to deal online if you don't want to, and you can keep up with your status on the internet.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 06:02 am



Obama on Jobs

By Neal Boortz

Barack Obama says that “we don’t yet know what happened” when it comes to the recent jobs figures. Really? Should we be more upset that he doesn’t get it or that he does get it but refuses to actually do something about it?

At a press conference yesterday, Obama says, “I’m not concerned about a double-dip recession. I am concerned about the fact that the recovery that we’re on is not producing jobs as quickly as I want it to happen.” Does Obama really not understand why his big-government spending stimulus didn’t produce jobs? Obama does not understand, nor does he want to admit, the great potential of a free market economy or private enterprise. Remember we are talking about a man who once referred to the private sector as the “enemy.” Is it any wonder that he would do everything in his power to empower his precious government, while stifling the enemy’s ability to grow and flourish? Obama is a smart man. He knows exactly what is going on.

Wait, can we still call him smart or is that now considered racist .. just like European, professor, etc?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 06:45 am
Jobless Claims Rise by 1,000, to 427,000
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 08:13 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Apparently you acknowledge that Greece is very close to default and needs to confront an underlying productivity problem

In the long run, yes. In the short run, though, even Greece's most immediate problem is idle capacity. And that's the kind of problem that austerity programs aggravate rather than resolve.

georgeob1 wrote:
Do you believe that other nations in Europe and the U.S. also suffer from this dynamic and its attendant illusions to some (varying) degrees?

I'm not sure what you mean by "this dynamic". But I agree that in the long run, once the world is out of its current liquidity trap, a return to balanced budgets or even surpluses is a good idea.

georgeob1 wrote:
What (if any)is the difference between a government financial/debt crisis motivated by (say) a misguided desire to save its banks following the collapse of a bubble in which they had heavily invested(as in Ireland) and one resulting from chronic spending and borrowing to sustain social welfare payments it can no longer afford?

The difference is that the former is actually happening in this ongoing crisis, whereas the latter is mostly a new sales pitch for policies that conservatives have always been wanting to pursue anyway.

georgeob1 wrote:
In your view Is there any difference in the stimulative effect of say spending on infrastructure (or reducing the taxes on enterprises) and increasing spending on social services?

In the short run, the stimulative effect is the same. In the long run, the difference is that infrastructure investments will yield a return that will help pay down later what we borrow now. Spending on social services, once spent, doesn't yield any future return.

georgeob1 wrote:
In this context it is noteworthy that most of the touted "Infrastructure investments" in the last "stimulus" bill were in the form of grants to the highway & environmental departments of states whose tax collections were rapidly falling due to the economic crisis. The net effect was very few "shovel ready" projects,

So increase federal aid to the states so they have more shovel-ready projects! Federal aid would also relieve state governments from pressure to fire teachers, fire fighters, and police officers. Educating the next generation, maintaining public safety, and preventing fires from spreading are all investments we should not skimp on!

georgeob1 wrote:
and instead merely a one year delay in the overdue staff restructuring of already bloated state governments.

That's a popular conservative talking point, but what is your evidence that state governments are actually bloated?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 08:23 am


Obama's 'Government Controlled Economy' is a failure.

This countries only hope of reversing course is to send Obama packing in 2012.



0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 10:17 am
@roger,
Are you trying to tell us that your gas purchases are less than $10 each time you visit the pump? What do you drive, a motorcycle? LOL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 10:19 am
@RABEL222,
I don't bother trying to "earn" money on savings or checking accounts; after paying taxes on them, your earnings is not worth the concern. That's been going on since 2008. Why tie up money in a savings account that pays nothing? Stupid.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 10:30 am



Shocked Obama's liberal media have just realized that the so-called economic recovery isn't happening.

No ****!
What have these news hounds been paying attention to since Obama took office?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 11:05 am
Let the real inflation begin.

The US AG department reports this years widespread flooding has greatly reduced the projected corn crop here in the US.
This corn shortage will dramatically increase the price of countless consumer goods. The US economy can only get worse.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 01:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
roger wrote:

Same here, except I will use plastic for gasoline and online purchases, regardless of amount of sale. I do not use debit cards.


My gas tank holds 9.6gal by the way, and I get close to 28mpg in town except in winter when it drops to around 23 - 24.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 01:57 am
@roger,
So, your gas purchases ends up to be more than $10- heh?
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 08:50 am
The other day I wondered whether greed or too much progress was to blame for companies not hiring despite profits.

Companies Spend on Equipment, Not Workers

Quote:
Companies that are looking for a good deal aren’t seeing one in new workers.

Workers are getting more expensive while equipment is getting cheaper, and the combination is encouraging companies to spend on machines rather than people.

“I want to have as few people touching our products as possible,” said Dan Mishek, managing director of Vista Technologies in Vadnais Heights, Minn. “Everything should be as automated as it can be. We just can’t afford to compete with countries like China on labor costs, especially when workers are getting even more expensive.”

Vista, which makes plastic products for equipment manufacturers, spent $450,000 on new technology last year. During the same period, it hired just two new workers, whose combined annual salary and benefits are $160,000.

Two years into the recovery, hiring is still painfully slow. The economy is producing as much as it was before the downturn, but with seven million fewer jobs. Since the recovery began, businesses’ spending on employees has grown 2 percent as equipment and software spending has swelled 26 percent, according to the Commerce Department. A capital rebound that sharp and a labor rebound that slow have been recorded only once before — after the 1982 recession.

With equipment prices dropping, and tax incentives to subsidize capital investments, these trends seem likely to continue.

“Firms are just responding to incentives,” said Dean Maki, chief United States economist at Barclays Capital. “And capital has gotten much cheaper relative to labor.”

Indeed, equipment and software prices have dipped 2.4 percent since the recovery began, thanks largely to foreign manufacturing. Labor costs, on the other hand, have risen 6.7 percent, according to the Labor Department. The rising compensation costs are driven in large part by costlier health care benefits, so those lucky workers who do have jobs do not exactly feel richer.

Corporate profits, meanwhile, are at record highs, and companies are hoarding cash. Many of the companies that are considering hiring say they are scared off by the uncertain future costs of health care and other benefits. But with the blessings of their accountants, these same companies are snatching up cheap, tax-subsidized tractors, computers and other goods.

“We had an opportunity to buy equipment at a very discounted rate,” Mr. Mishek explains of his decision to make bigger investments in equipment than in workers. “Now that the economy has turned around a little bit, it made sense to upgrade.”

Hiring has some hidden costs, as well as the expenses of salary and benefits, Mr. Mishek added.

“I dread the process we have to go through when we want to bring somebody on,” he said. “When we have a job posting these days, we get a flurry of résumés from people who aren’t qualified at all: people with misspellings on their résumés, who have never been in the industry and want a career move from real estate or something. It’s a huge distraction to sort through all those.”

Culling the résumés takes three days. Then he must make time to interview applicants, and spend $150 for each drug test.

Once a worker is hired, that person must complete a federally mandated safety program, which Vista pays an outside contractor a flat fee of $7,000 annually to handle. Finally, Vista’s best employees spend several months training the new hire, reducing their own productivity.

“You don’t have to train machines,” Mr. Mishek observes.

Usually economists cheer on capital spending, and have supported Congress’s tax breaks for capital investment, like bonus depreciation, which lets companies expense the full cost of purchases immediately instead of waiting several years. That is because capital and labor can be complementary: a business that buys a new truck often hires a new driver, too.

But with the rising costs of hiring, companies like Vista are finding ways to use capital to replace workers whose jobs are relatively routine.

“If you’re doing something that can be written down in a programmatic, algorithmic manner, you’re going to be substituted for quickly,” said Claudia Goldin, an economist at Harvard.

To add insult to injury, much of the equipment used to replace American workers is made by workers abroad, meaning that capital spending is going overseas. Of the four pieces of equipment Vista bought last year, one was made domestically. The others came from Israel, Switzerland and Germany. (“I try to avoid buying Chinese at the workplace and at home,” Mr. Mishek said.)

Of course the shift to more automated production predates the Great Recession. And in the long run, better technology lowers prices, raises living standards and helps workers move into higher-paying jobs. This was the case with the mechanization of farming, which a century ago employed 41 percent of the American work force.

“We don’t have 11 million unemployed farmers today because over time farmers and their children transitioned into different sectors,” says William C. Dunkelberg, chief economist at the National Federation of Independent Business. “We don’t usually have this kind of shock, though, that displaces a lot of workers at once.”

Better technologies may eventually offer better job opportunities, but only if people can upgrade their skills quickly enough to qualify. That is hard to do in the short run, especially when so many displaced workers need to be retrained at once.

“People don’t seem to come in with the right skill sets to work in modern manufacturing,” Mr. Mishek said, complaining that job applicants were often deficient in computer, mathematics, science and accounting skills. “It seems as if technology has evolved faster than people.”

Some economists support policies that might shift the balance away from capital spending. Andrew Sum, an economist at Northeastern University, advocates tax incentives for hiring that mirror those for capital investment. Congress passed a hiring tax credit along these lines last year, but it was not well publicized, and some said it was poorly devised. The proposal is reportedly floating around Washington once again.

Austan Goolsbee, chairman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, and many other economists say the relative prices of labor and capital are not the real problem. The biggest hurdle is that companies are loath to invest at all because economic growth is so slow.

Demand needs to grow for employers to be more comfortable with all sorts of investments, human or otherwise, Mr. Dunkelberg said.

Consider the booming 1990s, he says: Then, as now, capital was getting rapidly cheaper relative to labor, and then, as now, companies were increasing spending on capital more than on labor. But companies were investing so much money to begin with that labor spending still grew a lot. With a bigger economic pie, few cared how the slices were cut.


So it seems that we need to invest in just math, computer and science education to keep up with all the new equipment and we need to start building our own equipment rather than giving other countries more money.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 10:57 am
@revelette,
There are universal messages in our economy for the reasons of low employment by companies. They will not hire when the economy continues to constrict, and home ownership continues its downward trend. About 25% of current homeowners are underwater on their mortgages; that tells us that building new homes and all that goes with them are losing demand - including all the appliances, heaters, ac's, carpets, paint, tiles, cement, wood, salesmen, advertising, mortgages, and all those who work to support the industry. Today's newspaper made the claim that home ownership is at its lowest since WWII, and it is deteriorating at an increasing rate as jobs and income are lost.

The feds are telling us that it will take a couple of years to see a recovery, but that's bull shite. There isn't going to be any recovery for over five years - minimum.

That's because the world economy is in trouble.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 11:57 am
Quote:
Happy 10th Birthday, Bush Tax Cuts!
You've been a failure in every conceivable way.
By Annie Lowrey
Posted Wednesday, June 8, 2011, at 6:56 PM ET

The massive Bush tax cuts mark their 10th birthday this week. Sadly, despite my best efforts to find something redeeming about them—honest!—there is little to celebrate. By nearly all of the metrics set out by President Bush himself, the cuts were a colossal failure.

In 2001, the Bush administration inherited a few years' worth of budget surpluses, so it decided to cut income tax rates, double the child-care credit, and sharply reduce the levies on investment income. The economy then slowed, even entering a brief recession. As a form of stimulus, the administration doubled down, expanding and hastening the 2001 changes. Bush promised that the tax cuts would do a whole lot more than put money in people's pockets—which, in fact, they did. He said they would "starve the beast," forcing Congress to reduce the size and scope of government. He promised they would increase the prosperity of all Americans. He also vowed: "Tax relief will create new jobs. Tax relief will generate new wealth. And tax relief will open new opportunities."

OK, a pitter-patter of applause for what the tax cuts did do effectively: Cut taxes and reduce overall payments to Uncle Sam. Low-income families benefited from the child-care credit jumping from $500 to $1,000. High-income families benefited from the top marginal rate falling. Billionaires benefited from lightly taxed dividend income. And government receipts, in turn, dropped.

But the benefits mostly accrued to the rich, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The think tank reports that between 2001 and 2008, the bottom 80 percent of filers received about 35 percent of the cuts. The top 20 percent received about 65 percent—and the top 1 percent alone claimed 38 percent.

What about the president's claims? Take his pledge that the cuts would spur job growth. To be fair, we'll ignore employment changes during 2008, the year the Great Recession seized the economy. During the 2001 to 2007 business cycle, America's economy enjoyed 52 straight months of job growth. But it was sluggish—in fact, the slowest rate of jobs growth on record since World War II, and just one-fifth the pace of the 1990s.

Then there's wealth. Put simply, the aughts were a decade of income stagnation: The tax cuts failed to bolster most taxpayers' earnings, even before the recession hit. Median real wages actually dropped from 2003 to 2007. Household income from business-cycle peak to business-cycle peak declined for the first time since tracking started in 1967. As documented by my colleague Timothy Noah in his series "The United States of Inequality," this did not hold true for the nation's billionaires and millionaires. Garden-variety high-wage earners saw their income go up. And incomes for the top 1 percent skyrocketed. For some people, obviously, the cuts "generated new wealth," in the president's phrase. But overall, inequality got worse.

That leads to the third metric: Did the cuts "open new opportunities"? It's a vague phrase, but one way to measure it is to look at job growth—and there's nothing to see there. Another way would be to say that the cuts benefited "job creators" (to use the current en vogue phrase), like the nation's start-up businesses. But the number of private-sector jobs created by young companies fell during the Bush administration.

Unfortunately, the tax cuts never translated into robust economic growth, either. Indeed, the aughts saw the worst growth since World War II. From 2001 to 2007, annual GDP growth averaged just 2.4 percent per year, lower than in any other postwar business cycle. The contrast is starker still when judging against the previous decade. In real terms, GDP grew half as much from 2001 to 2010 as from 1991 to 2000.

There is another metric that Bush set out for the tax cuts: Did they succeed in helping to create a smaller government? Again, the answer is no. Events beyond Bush's control necessitated the Afghanistan war. He later decided to invade Iraq, and pushed through unpaid-for domestic expansions of government, like Medicare Part D. Deficits and government spending as a share of GDP grew during the Bush administration.

OK, a final attempt at celebration. Did the tax cuts stimulate the flagging economy in the early aughts? Sort of. Tax cuts give a mild boost to the economy, but not a big one. "After the tax rebates in 2001, 2003, and 2008, households [spent] between 25 and 67 cents more for each dollar of tax cut," William Gale of the Tax Policy Center writes. That makes tax cuts "a relatively weak way to help the economy compared to increases in government purchases, for which each dollar of increased deficit turns into an additional dollar of spending."

So, to recap: The Bush tax cuts were followed by low GDP growth, negative median wage growth, and little job growth. Even before the Great Recession, growth in the Bush business cycle was the weakest since World War II. And the cuts cost about $2.6 trillion between 2001 and 2010, according to the Economic Policy Institute—adding to a debt future generations of taxpayers will pay for, plus interest.

By Bush's own metrics, then, the tax cuts were a failure. But perhaps that is because Bush chose such absurd metrics and made such silly promises about tax cuts' economic omnipotence in the first place. To state the obvious, tax cuts are not magic. They can help a strong economy get stronger or help a weak economy pick up some steam. They also have a direct impact on the government budget. But they cannot goose employers into adding millions of jobs, pay for themselves, and arrest the growth of government, all while delivering everyone cupcakes. So perhaps the best we can say about the Bush tax cuts is that they did exactly what we should have expected them to do.


http://www.slate.com/id/2296578/pagenum/all/

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 12:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,


Fictitious Liberal Democrat Propaganda
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 01:21 pm
@revelette,
That's a tough one, revelette. It's probably the way to go, though I admit I would be happier if the new equipment were mostly made in the US. Still, this has been the trend as long as I've been alive, and the jobs lost to productive machinery simply hasn't been matched by our admittedly high unemployment rate.

In my own field, all but the largest banks and insurance were doing bookkeeping and accounting manually. On my last job, I was doing the whole schmeer by myself, and aided by the computer, of course. The company had over 50 employees and gross invoicing of over six million. Simply posting that many entries from journals to ledger accounts would have required from five to ten people. As it was, the posting consumed virtually not time at all. On a national basis, completing the same requirements manually would have occupied the entire unemployed population (if qualified) and then some. Sure, more people would have jobs, but they wouldn't have been productive jobs in any real sense of the word.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 02:30 pm
Oy. Another bad day/week on the U.S. stock market. The Dow down 170 for the day and racking up the 6th straight weekly loss.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 02:38 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Oy. Another bad day/week on the U.S. stock market. The Dow down 170 for the day and racking up the 6th straight weekly loss.


Well, it's still over-valued by at least 20%, so expect more of that in the weeks to come.

It's to be expected - we didn't do much of anything to address the underlying reasons behind our crisis, and the problems are still there, so... until we admit that the current banking and mortgage system is fucked, and give the people who conceived of such a shitty plan (for their own personal greed and no other reason) the boot, NOTHING will get better.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 04:19 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I'm top heavy in intermediate bond funds, so it usually keeps my investments pretty well balanced with moderate changes whether the market goes up or down.

For example, an investment of $10,000 in 2001 would be worth over $18,000 today, and we know the yo-yo effect of the stock market. Current yield is 2.88%; much better than bank savings accounts. Not a great return, but my loss in 2008 was less than 17% on my total investments.

That's the kind of security I need, because all I need money for is world travel.
0 Replies
 
 

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