Where is the US economy headed?

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Isn't it obvious? Lack of demand. You just can't admit this, because it's the same as saying that the Keynesians are right, and that would get you kicked out of the club.

Oh, so the government can easily solve that problem by borrowing a lot of money and spreading it around?

They can HELP solve the problem by doing that, yes. More accurately, borrowing money and 'spreading it around' can help businesses and individuals stay afloat until demand begins to rise on it's own.

Considering that the economic models pushed by your political party have proven to be failures, perhaps it is time to start considering a more sensible one.

Quote:

Funny that policy hasn't worked very well for the Greeks, or the Spanish, or the Portuguese, or the....

Wow, when you compare several different situations, you often find that they are in fact unalike! Amazing how that works. The problems Greece and Portugal has bear only the most superficial resemblance to our problems, but you lump them all in here as if it proves some sort of point for you. Didn't work.

I'll point out once again that there is zero evidence that the invisible Bond Vigilantes are in agreement with you, regarding our future prospects. None whatsoever. Perhaps they are all at lunch with the Uncertainty and Confidence fairies.

I updated my reply to you above with some other pertinent info re: lost jobs.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

It is a demonstrable fact that business confidence and investment are down significantly...

Gird your loins on that statement, GOB. I can't reply tonight, but I think I can prove you wrong on that.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

. Considering that the economic models pushed by your political party have proven to be failures, perhaps it is time to start considering a more sensible one.

Are Democrats arguing for a change? It appears to me that the American plan supported by both sides of the isle is the same plan that we have had since Reagan, IE make the books work by growth, which always means to juice the economy and ignore problems caused by the plan like the destruction of the middle class, the pain caused by endless bubble popping and increasing stratification between the classes. It has not worked, it will not work, but we are still trying. The end result will be revolution as the people eventually have enough of being robbed and having their pain ignored by the ruling class. Then watch out, because all hell will break loose. It could be the French Revolution all over again.

Dont waste your time bitching about the conservatives, as your side is no more willing to deal in truth than they are.

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@hawkeye10,

I think that your post is written out of ignorance. Try reading up on Obama's budget proposal, which calls for cuts to the military, 4 trillion or so in cuts in general, and raising taxes on the rich. The ACA also helps the middle class to a great degree - certainly more so than anything Republicans have done, ever.

Don't let facts get in the way of your predictions of French-style revolutions, though.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I think that your post is written out of ignorance. Try reading up on Obama's budget proposal, which calls for cuts to the military, 4 trillion or so in cuts in general, and raising taxes on the rich

Would the Obama plan come anywhere near balancing the books? The answer is no, he is dreaming of growth to cover most of it just like the GOP is.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I think that your post is written out of ignorance. Try reading up on Obama's budget proposal, which calls for cuts to the military, 4 trillion or so in cuts in general, and raising taxes on the rich
Would the Obama plan come anywhere near balancing the books? The answer is no, he is dreaming of growth to cover most of it just like the GOP is.

Growth WILL cover some of it - our tax receipts are way, way down right now due to the recession and tax breaks used to stimulate the economy (such as the 2% payroll tax cut).

But, just go ahead and move those goalposts wherever you feel they would help you the most, I don't mind.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

That's true; the lack of demand is the result of pay not keeping up with the inflated cost of food and fuel. Since our economy is made up of 70% consumption, people must devote more of their money towards food and fuel, and all the others are becoming unnecessary luxuries. Home ownership is dwindling, because more and more people do not trust home ownership to be the asset of choice while more people owe more on their mortgage than their homes are worth. This trend will be a long-term one, because of the job market. Many places continue to lose value, and a greater portion of home owners are under water on their mortgages.

The economic future looks dismal, and until we see an increase in job creation, that will not change.

It's a time, I believe, when the stock market will take bigger hits, and the bond market will see more investments over equity. The price will increase, and the interest rate will drop. There's nothing in the economy that signals inflation except for the price of gold.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

The economic future looks dismal, and until we see an increase in job creation, that will not change.

I agree with this, which is why I said earlier in this thread that I cannot understand why we are focusing on ANYTHING but job creation. At all.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I agree with this, which is why I said earlier in this thread that I cannot understand why we are focusing on ANYTHING but job creation. At all.

We are about three years into the financial melt down of America.....please point to the effort to create jobs, and where this effort is working?

The fact of the matter is that the ruling class does not give a **** about jobs, and it does not matter if they call themselves DEM or GOP, the position is the same.

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Obama's A2K apologists fail to recognize what a failure Obama and his administration have been and they also fail to recognize that this crop of democrats have no rational solutions to the problems their spending sprees and tax raising efforts have only made worse.

The 1st step this countries citizens need to take so that our economy has a chance at real sustained growth is voting the Obama regime out of office, luckily the November elections proved that the American citizens are not afraid to do the right thing. There's hope.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
The economic future looks dismal, and until we see an increase in job creation, that will not change.

I agree with this, which is why I said earlier in this thread that I cannot understand why we are focusing on ANYTHING but job creation. At all.

Maybe things are going the way Obama really wants them to go. Maybe Obama really does want to knock the US down a peg or two.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Quote:

Maybe things are going the way Obama really wants them to go. Maybe Obama really does want to knock the US down a peg or two.

More likely he does not have any bright ideas for a way out....

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@hawkeye10,

You seem to be correct again, You need to stop doing that because reality can lead to depression!

Convince yourself that every thing will be all right, Kind of hard isn't it!

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Isn't it obvious? Lack of demand. You just can't admit this, because it's the same as saying that the Keynesians are right, and that would get you kicked out of the club.

Oh, so the government can easily solve that problem by borrowing a lot of money and spreading it around?

No, by printing a lot of money and spreading it about.

georgeob1 wrote:

Funny that policy hasn't worked very well for the Greeks, or the Spanish, or the Portuguese, or the....

none of whom can print their own money. Besides, Spain's pre-crisis debt was lower than America's. How much good did that do to them?

1 Reply

@Thomas,

This is true that is why we trust in god and have it printed on our money, because he has allowed oil to be traded in US currency and has pulled the wool over the rest of the world's eyes.

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I've been thinking about the economy a lot today, and given the various issues that have popped up lately, I can't help but think that the Republican insistence on Austerity and deficit reduction at this time is going to absolutely doom us.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

I agree; me thinks another round of stim bill will help keep our economy humming until commerce can pick up steam. Consumers need money to spend to create higher demand for goods and services. This in turn will pyramid into growth for our economy - and even help with increasing tax collection for all levels of government. Austerity will not work; it will stifle job growth, and people will have less money to spend.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Why are you concerned? You have loudly and repeatedly asserted that the Republicans "have no leverage" and are "widely opposed by the public" on these issues, and that their efforts will doom themselves and aid the Democrats.

I don't think the Republicans are insisting on "austerity" as the word is commonly used. They would be more than content simply to return government spending to its 2009 levels - something that in the midst of the recent unprecedented increase in deficits appears both reasonable and very necessary - and something that nearly every other major country is trying to do now.

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@georgeob1,

But the claim of the Keynsian economists that Cycloptichorn and I agree with is that all major countries are getting it wrong, that they're making a tragic and far-reaching mistake. So you can't defend the Republicans by pointing out that those countries are pursuing the same policies the Republicans want to pursue.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

What do you and the esteemed Keynsians believe the Greeks, Spanish and Portuguese should do now? Germany appears to have done well for itself through the reduction of social benefits, increased labor market freedom and fiscal restraint these last several years. Were they wrong?

Ireland and Latvia have embarked on very painful austerity programs. What do you believe will be their fate?

1 Reply

Where is the US economy headed?

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