Where is the US economy headed?

@H2O MAN,

The so-called talking points have credibility, where as your opinions have none.

http://www.democrats.org/news/blog/continued_experts_agree_president_obamas_policies_have_helped_the_economy

Provide evidence that these economists are wrong?

You can't, because you all bull **** and piss.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

That after the GOP warned Wall Street that this vote didn't mean anything. It was all for political show.

I take it that you are not believing the reports that the markets are down because the data suck, for instance that the economist predicted 180K private sector new jobs but the number was 38K.....that sucks. this far into the "recovery" the economy still cant create enough jobs to tread water, and we still have a lot more government jobs to lose as well. At some point the lack of jobs is going to be a political problem, and the american people revolt after their debt was massively ramped up to bail out the banks and other corporate interests and we dont even get jobs in return for our investment. The people can not be swindled forever, continued pain has a way of wising people up eventually.

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@hawkeye10,

Even more than the jobs report is the fact that Greece's debt was downgraded again. Which leads me to say: how can anyone think that playing with our debt limit is a good idea, or something which won't absolutely wreck our markets? The concept that we would threaten to default on our debts is ridiculous and nearly inconceivable...

Cycloptichorn

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@hawkeye10,

I'm saying, what would have happened if people had taken the vote seriously?

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@realjohnboy,

rjb, I don't find that surprising at all! Our investments have grown by over 5% for YTD while our economy continues to struggle, and home ownership is dropping. Unemployment will continue to grow, because there isn't enough job creation to meet current demand.

Consumer confidence continues to deteriorate as higher food and fuel prices take up more of the family budget.

If anything, I was expecting the stock market to be in a bear for this year.

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@cicerone imposter,

So was I, but I haven't taken my stock market predictions seriously since around 1982. That's when I realized the DOW rose on bad news in hopes the news would result in lower interest rates. When I don't understand the rules, I don't play.

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@realjohnboy,

realjohnboy wrote:

Pretty amazing day on Wall Street as major indices down 2.2% or so.

Not surprising considering the situation. I believe the stock market is still over-valued by about 20-25% at this point, and will drop further.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Even more than the jobs report is the fact that Greece's debt was downgraded again.

Greece is gone, the bigger problem is the the EU seems to be unprepared to deal with the massive debt with-in the EU. THey have no plan for how to get out, and likely will not get out. The future of the Euro and of the EU are now in doubt.

But then America does not have a plan either, so who are we to bitch? I was watching Henry Kissinger on Charley Rose (painful with his age) and he was saying that the big effect from the Great Recession is the the Chinese have lost faith in us....they used to believe that we has some magic formula and even though it did not make sense what we are doing we knew what we are doing. Now we are like Enron, the scam is clear, we nither have a plan nor were we ever as smart as we claimed that we were. So what we are left with is that the East has money and the West has debt, with the inevitable results to follow. Ye who has the gold makes the rules.

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@roger,

That's the reason why "never try to time the market." It's impossible, and actually results in the reverse of what we think. I try to keep my portfolio conservative, so it doesn't gain much or lose much either way. At my age, no don't take any risks.

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@hawkeye10,

I think that you may be correct! Do you think that we will give up on our debt? Maybe tell the other countries and or people that hold our debt to go screw themselves?
I think this whole system is a Enron type of system but many times larger so it will take a lot longer to sink this ship!

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

I think that you may be correct! Do you think that we will give up on our debt? Maybe tell the other countries and or people that hold our debt to go screw themselves?
I think this whole system is a Enron type of system but many times larger so it will take a lot longer to sink this ship!

Normally the solution would be to devalue the currency, but we are already spending $270 million a day to buy crude from other nations, so you can see how impossible funding our addiction gets be be it we did that. We are fucked.

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It's left wing insanity.

Obama and his administration have killed the economy effectively reducing tax revenues
across the board, now we see a coming double dip housing crash and inflation will follow that.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Even more than the jobs report is the fact that Greece's debt was downgraded again. Which leads me to say: how can anyone think that playing with our debt limit is a good idea, or something which won't absolutely wreck our markets? The concept that we would threaten to default on our debts is ridiculous and nearly inconceivable...

Cycloptichorn

I believe the market has been reacting continuously to the ongoing and much discussed decline of Greece's debt situation and likely the Moody's action today didn't surprise anyone. Today's big becline was fairly clearly mostly a reaction to the latest jobs & employment data - a strong & fairly reliable leading indicator of stagnation in economic activity. The lack of clarity about future government regulatory actions in the energy sector particularly, and as well in the financial industry and others, along with the evident inability of the government to come to grips with its spending problem, are ,in my view, very harmful contributors to the continuing paralysis in business investment.

No one wants a government default. What we see instead is one group that wants to arrest the accelerating growth of our annual spending and deficits as a way of limiting already dangerous levels of debt as a % of GDP; and another that wants to continue spending growth unabated without doing anything other than vague promises to "tax the rich".

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Even more than the jobs report is the fact that Greece's debt was downgraded again. Which leads me to say: how can anyone think that playing with our debt limit is a good idea, or something which won't absolutely wreck our markets? The concept that we would threaten to default on our debts is ridiculous and nearly inconceivable...

Cycloptichorn

I believe the market has been reacting continuously to the ongoing and much discussed decline of Greece's debt situation and likely the Moody's action today didn't surprise anyone. Today's big becline was fairly clearly mostly a reaction to the latest jobs & employment data - a strong & fairly reliable leading indicator of stagnation in economic activity. The lack of clarity about future government regulatory actions in the energy sector particularly, and as well in the financial industry and others, along with the evident inability of the government to come to grips with its spending problem, are ,in my view, very harmful contributors to the continuing paralysis in business investment.

Oooh, the Uncertainty fairy! That's always the favorite attack of Conservatives against Dem policies, because it's impossible to prove OR refute. It's the baseless charge that never goes out of style.

Quote:

No one wants a government default. What we see instead is one group that wants to arrest the accelerating growth of our annual spending and deficits as a way of limiting already dangerous levels of debt as a % of GDP; and another that wants to continue spending growth unabated without doing anything other than vague promises to "tax the rich".

The other group has a plan as well, you just don't care to read or acknowledge the details of it. Taxing the rich is just one component - and it's not a vague one, either; it's a detailed promise to do that. Fortunately for my position, majorities of our citizens support doing exactly that.

Re: the government default, if 'nobody wants it,' then the Republicans should just give up and pass a clean debt limit increase bill. Because they have zero leverage on this issue. If Obama refuses to accede to their draconian and frankly idiotic Austerity measures, what is the GOP going to do? Not raise the limit, and send us into default? I doubt it. This whole kabuki dance is just an irresponsible joke, and a waste of time.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

ObamaNomics Disaster:

Inflation Rises at Fastest Pace in 2-½ Years, Jobless Claims Surge, GDP Growth a Paltry 1.8%…

Seven brutal facts that prove Obamanomics is a total disaster

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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9aPPJu3fnpw/TOTJGwMgIpI/AAAAAAAAAEw/upo0hXtGy80/s1600/obamanomics1.jpg

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A year after the White House trumpeted ‘Recovery Summer,’ and more than two years after telling Americans that a trillion dollars in new debt would keep the unemployment rate under 8 percent, Washington Democrats still don’t have a budget, a plan or even a schedule for dealing with the looming fiscal crisis or the ongoing jobs crisis. And their only ‘solutions’ so far seem to be to raise taxes on job creators, increase the price of gas, and cause even more jobs to move overseas.

The poor economy complicates Obama’s debt ceiling position

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Oooh, the Uncertainty fairy! That's always the favorite attack of Conservatives against Dem policies, because it's impossible to prove OR refute. It's the baseless charge that never goes out of style.
Cycloptichorn

It is a demonstrable fact that business confidence and investment are down significantly and that it is what is the driver for the decline in employment. What alternative explanation do you have for this observable fact ?

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Oooh, the Uncertainty fairy! That's always the favorite attack of Conservatives against Dem policies, because it's impossible to prove OR refute. It's the baseless charge that never goes out of style.
Cycloptichorn

It is a demonstrable fact that business confidence and investment are down significantly and that it is what is the driver for the decline in employment. What alternative explanation do you have for this observable fact ?

Isn't it obvious? Lack of demand. You just can't admit this, because it's the same as saying that the Keynesians are right, and that would get you kicked out of the club.

I would also point out that the VAST majority of job losses have been in the construction sector; and that this was the only sector that rose in any real numbers under Bush, largely because of a gigantic bubble brought about by lax regulation. Those jobs aren't coming back - and that has nothing to do with the Democratic regulatory structure or environment at all.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Isn't it obvious? Lack of demand. You just can't admit this, because it's the same as saying that the Keynesians are right, and that would get you kicked out of the club.

Oh, so the government can easily solve that problem by borrowing a lot of money and spreading it around? Funny that policy hasn't worked very well for the Greeks, or the Spanish, or the Portuguese, or the....

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Where is the US economy headed?

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