Where is the US economy headed?

You aren't making comments which are material to the subject under discussion. If you like, I will go back and do a comprehensive review of our posts today to show you just how much we have drifted, as you have dropped one point we've raised after another, and brought up other points instead. This sort of conversation drift is typical when one doesn't have good answers to the other's points.

I work for a Law School; no rich person gave me this job. Now, I understand that you think I'm a communist b/c I work for the state. But it is a good example of how jobs come from areas other then the rich providing them to the poor.

Cycloptichorn

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Who paid most of the taxes to support your school? Beautiful point, actually. You prove the point perfectly. You must think the government would exist without people with money to support it?

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okie wrote:

Who paid most of the taxes to support your school? Beautiful point, actually. You prove the point perfectly. You must think the government would exist without people with money to support it?

The people of California, both rich and poor, paid the taxes to support this school. It doesn't rely upon the largesse of the Rich.

Your response doesn't logically follow what I said. The fact that the Rich pay taxes like everyone else doesn't mean that they provide the jobs.

Cycloptichorn

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Rich people in California likely paid the majority of the money that supports your school. And further, people that get loans to attend the school depend upon the money provided to the government for those loans, again mostly paid by people with more money.

Without the rich, your school would undoubtedly be suffering a budget crisis, and it would not be operating in the same manner or the same scale or size, and perhaps not at all.

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okie wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, there are ... at east 47 countries in Europe.
I sincerely doubt that you have more than an idea perhaps a coule of those.

I do admit that most private places I've sen in the USA aren't bad at all.
But comparing those owners and families with comparable in .... well, those six, seven European countries I know quite well, it's neither better nor worse: both sides of the ocean have advantages and bad sides.
It's more a kind of from where you look at it, I think.

Probably true. I base some of mine on seeing London and surrounding areas.
Also, I do not believe happiness is a bigger house. But at the same time, I don't see why Americans need to complain either, and that is my point.

Interesting. You base your assessment of how Europeans live on the impression you got from visiting a million-people city plus suburbs...

Hm.

So, suppose I had only been to, say, New York - mostly Manhattan, maybe - and I would go on and on and on about just how expensive the United States are, and about how cramped people live, and that so many people can't afford to own a car and have to rely on public transportation instead, and about how there's almost no nature left in the United States because, like, the cities just go on and on, and, like, all of America really just consists of skyscrapers and fast food.... would you take that opinion serious?

I mean, there are several European countries that have a lower population density than the United States. There are European countries that have a higher per capita income than the United States. And there's no European country that has a higher Gini index than the United States.

But hey, I'm willing to listen. An outsider's view is always interesting.

<gets popcorn>

So, tell us a bit more about how Europeans are living...

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:
Who paid most of the taxes to support your school? Beautiful point, actually. You prove the point perfectly. You must think the government would exist without people with money to support it?

The people of California, both rich and poor, paid the taxes to support this school. It doesn't rely upon the largesse of the Rich.

Your response doesn't logically follow what I said. The fact that the Rich pay taxes like everyone else doesn't mean that they provide the jobs.

Cycloptichorn

I just looked it up and about 80% of the taxes paid to California are paid by people with adjusted gross incomes of over 100,000. That is the adjusted income, cyclops, not exactly poor people. Take 80% of your school's budget away and what do you have left?

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okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
okie wrote:
Who paid most of the taxes to support your school? Beautiful point, actually. You prove the point perfectly. You must think the government would exist without people with money to support it?

The people of California, both rich and poor, paid the taxes to support this school. It doesn't rely upon the largesse of the Rich.

Your response doesn't logically follow what I said. The fact that the Rich pay taxes like everyone else doesn't mean that they provide the jobs.

Cycloptichorn

I just looked it up and about 80% of the taxes paid to California are paid by people with adjusted gross incomes of over 100,000. That is the adjusted income, cyclops, not exactly poor people. Take 80% of your school's budget away and what do you have left?

Why would we 'take that away?' The rich pay taxes just like everyone else. But their taxes do not equal 'providing a job.' If the money were distributed in a more equal fashion, the Law School would receive equivalent funding.

Under your logic, you could state that the rich provide every single job that the government gives out. This is purely retarded.

Cycloptichorn

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old europe wrote:

But hey, I'm willing to listen. An outsider's view is always interesting.

<gets>

So, tell us a bit more about how Europeans are living...

At least you guys have some pride and are defending your countrys' living conditions. I did travel outside of London, oe, and I know people that have traveled to other countries, which confirm what I am saying here. It is backed up by this link, which I will post for the third time.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=5454

I apologize if my posts are taken as an insult to Europeans. They are not meant to be, but merely to defend the living conditions here in the U.S., which are demonstrably pretty nice, by real statistics and data, not just my opinion.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Why would we 'take that away?' The rich pay taxes just like everyone else. But their taxes do not equal 'providing a job.' If the money were distributed in a more equal fashion, the Law School would receive equivalent funding.

Under your logic, you could state that the rich provide every single job that the government gives out. This is purely retarded.

Cycloptichorn

To explain some basics here, the rich pay proportionately more tax, cyclops. If everyone in California were poor, there would be far, far, fewer jobs, and fewer people working for law schools. This is such basic economics. I find it incredible that a law professor or lawyer would argue about this?

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Facts about where "we" live.

The data also shows that across California, the rich are rapidly getting richer: In Santa Clara County, average income in the seven-figure bracket swelled by 38 percent from 2004 to 2005, the most recent year data is available.

The income boom, however, is not being shared by the valley's middle class: When everyone who filed a tax return is taken into account, median income inched up 2 percent.

That's not keeping up with inflation.

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I know okie won't understand what I'm saying, but the average income in San Jose is around $75,000. To buy a home in our community, the monthly payment can run $5,000 per month or more. That's $60,000 before taxes and insurance, not to mention the other necessities of life such as food, energy, and education for the children.

Several homes on our block is now selling for $1 million plus, or translated into monthly/annual mortgage payments, that's about $10,000 a month or about $120,000 a year. That's way beyond most people working in our county, no less in the country. Percentage-wise? I'd guess about one or two percent of the population.

They are not the "middle-class" or the poor buying the homes in our neighborhood.

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I have relatives in California, so I am aware of some of what you have there. You need to remember though that the statistic about who pays taxes is adjusted gross income, so those people are making well over 100 k, imposter, that pay 80% of the taxes in California.

And to set the record straight, there must be thousands of homes, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of homes in California that sell for the prices you mention, so there are alot of people with money there. One reason why they sell out and go elsewhere to buy just as nice a home, and use the bonanza for living comfortably.

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okie, We're not talking about megamansions. We're talking about 3br, 2b homes. Do you understand anything?

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I know that, imposter. I've been in a few of them when visiting relatives in California, and know what they are worth. Thats why so many Californians are seeking asylum outside the state. But they are bringing their money with them.

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I guess cyclops gave up? If he wishes to come back here and prove that if all of California was poor, then his job and his law school would be existing just as it is. Go read an economics book, cyclops.

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okie wrote:

I guess cyclops gave up? If he wishes to come back here and prove that if all of California was poor, then his job and his law school would be existing just as it is. Go read an economics book, cyclops.

Just working, is all. Yaknow. Being a productive member of society.

You don't have to Appeal to Extremes all the time, yaknow. My argument has never been that the Law School would receive as much funding if California had less money overall. Once again, you are shifting the goalposts of the conversation when you are stymied on other fronts.

I've read more economics texts in the last 4 months then you probably have in your whole life, friend; and that's b/c Thomas told me I needed to do the same thing. And he was right. But nothing in those texts has supported the sorts of claims that you are making.

Cycloptichorn

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There are no extremes here. Rich people are paying for your law school with much more money than the same number of poor people. This is not arguable, and this is not extreme. It is just basic. How can you just shake this type of information off as if it has no impact on the debate here?

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okie wrote:

There are no extremes here. Rich people are paying for your law school with much more money than the same number of poor people. This is not arguable, and this is not extreme. It is just basic. How can you just shake this type of information off as if it has no impact on the debate here?

Is this some public funded law school or is Cyclops paying tuition? Are rich people paying anything?

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maporsche wrote:

okie wrote:
There are no extremes here. Rich people are paying for your law school with much more money than the same number of poor people. This is not arguable, and this is not extreme. It is just basic. How can you just shake this type of information off as if it has no impact on the debate here?

Is this some public funded law school or is Cyclops paying tuition? Are rich people paying anything?

Hahah, no, I work there, they pay me.

It is a publicly funded school, so, no, it isn't 'rich folks' who are paying for the school, but everyone. Every person in California is providing me with a job.

The rich pay more proportionately then the poor, but then again, they have a lot more money and security in their life. But that's not the same thing as saying 'rich people provide Cyclops with a job.' Not at all. The State of California provides me with a job.

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

maporsche wrote:
okie wrote:
There are no extremes here. Rich people are paying for your law school with much more money than the same number of poor people. This is not arguable, and this is not extreme. It is just basic. How can you just shake this type of information off as if it has no impact on the debate here?

Is this some public funded law school or is Cyclops paying tuition? Are rich people paying anything?

Hahah, no, I work there, they pay me.

It is a publicly funded school, so, no, it isn't 'rich folks' who are paying for the school, but everyone. Every person in California is providing me with a job.

The rich pay more proportionately then the poor, but then again, they have a lot more money and security in their life. But that's not the same thing as saying 'rich people provide Cyclops with a job.' Not at all. The State of California provides me with a job.

Cycloptichorn

Well that makes more sense.

I agree though, rich people have much more to lose. For example, I did not personally lose any money by the stock market crashing post 9/11, rich people on the other hand likely lost a ton of money in the stock market. It is in their interest to pay for the security of the nation (both economically, socially, and physically), these rich people are often only rich because of society either using their services or buying their products.

I don't hear a lot of rich people complaining about taxes either.

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Where is the US economy headed?

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